VFacts for December 2012 - Page 2

Nic85 · 05-01-2013, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

That is exactly Ford's and Holden's problem, they still think it is 1994.

Speaking of 1994, a cheap flight between Melbourne and Sydney was $700, and a nice house was $100,000. Comparing prices to 1994 is moronic, it is 2013 where a Mazda 3 is 20 grand and a 7 seater diesel 4wd can be yours for 40 grand. A Falcon or Commodore should be smack bang in the middle of those prices.

This. The average punter isn't going to spend $40k on a Commodore or Falcon when they can buy a Mazda 3 for half the price, which will use almost half the fuel and is almost as big space wise. If they want a bigger car, they buy a diesel SUV, have all the space they need and still use 8L/100km instead of 12-13 in the Commodore/Falcon.

Nikked · 05-01-2013, 09:40 AM

Good results from ford! Good numbers for the falcon...such a diluted market...

T4ME · 05-01-2013, 09:42 AM

Seems ford missed the 4cyl big car market.

Was it ever going to be a huge success when it has the Camry to compete with?

Build it and they will come....just needs to be at the correct time and Ford missed the boat.
It's a pity as the ECOBOOST is a pearler!

Definetely seeing more and more turbo diesel Titanium's around.
They look very smart on the road.

csv8 · 05-01-2013, 10:09 AM

Just shows what 0% finance can do..What number did the Ecoboost sell ??? Ecolpi ??

prydey · 05-01-2013, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

This. The average punter isn't going to spend $40k on a Commodore or Falcon when they can buy a Mazda 3 for half the price, which will use almost half the fuel and is almost as big space wise. If they want a bigger car, they buy a diesel SUV, have all the space they need and still use 8L/100km instead of 12-13 in the Commodore/Falcon.

with statements like this, i would question how much time you have actually spent in either car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

That is exactly Ford's and Holden's problem, they still think it is 1994.

the irony is, from what i can gather from most of your statements, you are also stuck in the past. you expect the large car segment to continue selling shedloads of cars each month (like 1994) even though the market is one of the most diverse, if not THE most diverse in the world.

the fact that falcon has held pretty steady at 1100/month shows that contrary to what you may need in headline grabbing media, there is still a steady market for it.

a lot of you guys have been throwing rocks for a long time, and yet falcon is still here, and at least 1 more iteration is on the way. surely your arms must be getting sore.

have you ever heard the term 'self fulfilling prophecy'? in 2054 when falcon dies, you can hobble out on your zimmer frame and croak 'i told you so...'

Windsor220 · 05-01-2013, 12:34 PM

Maybe I missed it but on the Ford website when you select build your Ford, there is no XT or base XR6. Have these been removed?

.FoMoCo. · 05-01-2013, 01:42 PM

Surely for the price to come down in 19 years for a car that is light years ahead in every department has some relevance? Personally i see the falcon price point is roughly about right....a Mazda 3 is a lot smaller after all...
I would much rather see FOA be a low volume niche manufacturer turning a profit, than high output, scratching to make a buck.

GT69 · 05-01-2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Maybe I missed it but on the Ford website when you select build your Ford, there is no XT or base XR6. Have these been removed?

Notice its also 'Falcon XR6 Turbo' v G6 & G6E not stating 'Falcon' strange? Anyway....I feel sorry for the Falcon, Its a great car, I've bought 2 brand new. I don't think I'll be buying a third though. As much as I hate to admit it, The Ranger is looking like a logical step for me and no doubt many others.

That being said, $38,890 for an XR6 Turbo ute is bloody tempting, and at this stage I'd bet that the people wanting it cheaper still, aren't going to buy one anyway. To compare, RRP on my 09 FG was close to $50,000.....I got it for $42,500. And it didn't have the luxury pack....

Perhaps Ford AU, if the slow supply continues, Should look at building Ranger alongside Falcon and Territory? I know I know, they wont do that for 100 different reason, All of them make sense.

jpd80 · 05-01-2013, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Maybe I missed it but on the Ford website when you select build your Ford, there is no XT or base XR6. Have these been removed?

I wouldn't read anything into that as Ford is obviously in the process of changing the build and quote configurator,

Joe5619 · 05-01-2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

A couple of years ago people laughed at me when I said the (upcoming T6) Ranger would be the best selling Ford.

And?? It is still not the best selling model, Foucs is!!!

Nic85 · 05-01-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

with statements like this, i would question how much time you have actually spent in either car.

the irony is, from what i can gather from most of your statements, you are also stuck in the past. you expect the large car segment to continue selling shedloads of cars each month (like 1994) even though the market is one of the most diverse, if not THE most diverse in the world.

the fact that falcon has held pretty steady at 1100/month shows that contrary to what you may need in headline grabbing media, there is still a steady market for it.

a lot of you guys have been throwing rocks for a long time, and yet falcon is still here, and at least 1 more iteration is on the way. surely your arms must be getting sore.

have you ever heard the term 'self fulfilling prophecy'? in 2054 when falcon dies, you can hobble out on your zimmer frame and croak 'i told you so...'

It's no secret that the Commodore and Falcon use more fuel than a diesel SUV and offer no more room or practicality, that was my main point. 1100 sales per month is hardly going to do anything for a new business case to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in an obsolete program. It's just a reality of the times.

Eaturbo · 05-01-2013, 02:14 PM

Sadly the Falcon and territory are suffering from low volume which leads to low budget which also leads to lower features in the car. Ford would have lost a few customers over the years from lack of options and features. Why is it cheap imports can have sunroofs and fully electric seats with seat heaters and Ford cant. The moment the stopped doing sunroofs in Falcon's i thought that this was a bad move. Most people that want sunroofs want them fitted by the manufacturer even if its cut into the roof after production, they just want to be covered by the warranty. I have looked at other brands like the new Jeep as i want a sunroof. It does not take much for people to buy another brand when the brand they want does not offer the options they want and another brand does.

prydey · 05-01-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

It's no secret that the Commodore and Falcon use more fuel than a diesel SUV and offer no more room or practicality, that was my main point. 1100 sales per month is hardly going to do anything for a new business case to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in an obsolete program. It's just a reality of the times.

its also no secret that diesel is at least 10c and often 20c a litre dearer and most suv's aren't that much cheaper to run.

as for business cases, the reality is that beyond the next iteration of falcon, the car will not be 100% unique to our market. it may have a some uniqueness about it but you could put money on it sharing the bulk of its make up with other global platforms. THAT is the reality.

manufacturing by ford in this country is a long way from being finished.

stevz · 05-01-2013, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

This. The average punter isn't going to spend $40k on a Commodore or Falcon when they can buy a Mazda 3 for half the price, which will use almost half the fuel and is almost as big space wise. If they want a bigger car, they buy a diesel SUV, have all the space they need and still use 8L/100km instead of 12-13 in the Commodore/Falcon.

What?!?!?!

You're delusional! This is the kind of rubbish that the public has been brainwashed into believing, hence the sales figures. A Mazda 3 almost as big space wise as a Falcon or Commodore?? Maybe if you're a midget!!! Uses half the fuel??? A Mazda 3 might use a tad less around town but a Falcodore will more than match it on the open road. The average motorist would be lucky to save a few lousy hundred bucks over 20,000km in a Mazda 3, hardly worth the compromise.
As for being half the price, that's BS too. You need to ignore RRP and look at real world prices. A base model 3 is around the $22k mark. Add auto and whatever other options and you wont see much change out of $25k. An Omega or XT can be had for around $30k. Same with the sports models - the SP25 is in the low $30k bracket, an XR6 or SV6 can be had for only a few grand more, which imo is money well spent, as life is too short to spend it driving some small gutless front wheel drive buzzbox.

Joe5619 · 05-01-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

This. The average punter isn't going to spend $40k on a Commodore or Falcon when they can buy a Mazda 3 for half the price, which will use almost half the fuel and is almost as big space wise. If they want a bigger car, they buy a diesel SUV, have all the space they need and still use 8L/100km instead of 12-13 in the Commodore/Falcon.

Some people serious

. How can people be so miss guided?? SERIOUS!!

The engine that is in a Mazda 3 that is half the price of a Falcon (even though it is only approx 33% cheaper!!) gets 7.9L/100 & the Falcon gets 8.1L/100... If you want better fuel economy than 7.9 for Mazda 3 you are talking Diesel or sky active which are pretty close to Falcon XT pricing (the real price people pay, not this RRP crap) so there goes your half cost price line!!

Dr Smith · 05-01-2013, 02:45 PM

I think one fact not always mentioned is that the total sub $70K large sedan market in 2012 was about half the best ever sales of Falcon many years ago. And today's top selling Mazda 3 of approx 40k units is half what the top selling car in the late90's early 00's sold. The market today is so big with 60+ brands that we will never get one model selling anywhere near the same volume. Frankly if there was only one car in the large car segment it would only sell about 40K+ units anyway based on full year numbers just seen. It will be very interesting to see what Ford Aust. plans on doing in the next few years because the shutdown of some euro factories shows when needed the HQ execs don't muck around, which I see as a positive for Campbellfield.

Nic85 · 05-01-2013, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

What?!?!?!

You're delusional! This is the kind of rubbish that the public has been brainwashed into believing, hence the sales figures. A Mazda 3 almost as big space wise as a Falcon or Commodore?? Maybe if you're a midget!!! Uses half the fuel??? A Mazda 3 might use a tad less around town but a Falcodore will more than match it on the open road. The average motorist would be lucky to save a few lousy hundred bucks over 20,000km in a Mazda 3, hardly worth the compromise.
As for being half the price, that's BS too. You need to ignore RRP and look at real world prices. A base model 3 is around the $22k mark. Add auto and whatever other options and you wont see much change out of $25k. An Omega or XT can be had for around $30k. Same with the sports models - the SP25 is in the low $30k bracket, an XR6 or SV6 can be had for only a few grand more, which imo is money well spent, as life is too short to spend it driving some small gutless front wheel drive buzzbox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Some people serious

. How can people be so miss guided?? SERIOUS!!

The engine that is in a Mazda 3 that is half the price of a Falcon (even though it is only approx 33% cheaper!!) gets 7.9L/100 & the Falcon gets 8.1L/100... If you want better fuel economy than 7.9 for Mazda 3 you are talking Diesel or sky active which are pretty close to Falcon XT pricing (the real price people pay, not this RRP crap) so there goes your half cost price line!!

I think you guys missed the point. We all know this, but the people buying new cars either don't, or don't care and just wanna run with the current crowd. That's the whole point I was making. There's no way on earth I'd personally buy a new Mazda 3 or other small car, unless it was a little diesel hatchback just for running around or something. Sadly, this is the reality we're living in, and you can't blame people for wanting value for money.

MrZ · 05-01-2013, 04:25 PM

Can we please get some actual FIGURES posted in this thread, instead of just boring comments and opinions?

naddis01 · 05-01-2013, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

There's no way on earth I'd personally buy a new Mazda 3 or other small car, unless it was a little diesel hatchback just for running around or something.

What, like a Mazda 3?

Joe5619 · 05-01-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrZ

Can we please get some actual FIGURES posted in this thread, instead of just boring comments and opinions?

Did you even bother really the topic before posting??? There is enough figures in here to keep most happy. What other figures do you want??

**russellw** · 05-01-2013, 07:55 PM

The first set of graphical data is now uploaded for December.

Cheers
Russ

BDA074 · 05-01-2013, 09:36 PM

Great data as usual Russell. Interesting that Ford were only 835 cars away from 2011. With more availability of Focus/Mondeo/Ranger would have been in growth.
Holden behind over 11,000 would be a massive worry...

jpd80 · 05-01-2013, 09:43 PM

Thanks Russell,

For anyone interested:

Falcon Ute 369

Commodore Ute 560

Fiesta 879

Mondeo 511

Escape 48

Kuga 145

bigwil · 05-01-2013, 09:44 PM

Any FPV figures yet?

prydey · 05-01-2013, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Mondeo 511

apparently the reasons the falcon doesn't sell are

no diesel
not enough tech
too expensive

and yet it outsells a car that often those same people claim is far superior.

oh, hang on, its front wheel drive. people don't want front wheel drive. oh wait, most of the top 10 passenger cars are fwd. whoops. oh, folks don't want fwd in larger cars. oh wait, camry and aurion are selling ok lately.... umm well...

bigwil · 05-01-2013, 10:01 PM

Toyota should get rid of the Aurion name and just call it what it is, a V6 Camry. I see the camry as a large car not a medium car anyway, so still a market for large cars and my next car will be a 4cyl FALCON.

In Focus · 05-01-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

apparently the reasons the falcon doesn't sell are

no diesel
not enough tech
too expensive

and yet it outsells a car that often those same people claim is far superior.

oh, hang on, its front wheel drive. people don't want front wheel drive. oh wait, most of the top 10 passenger cars are fwd. whoops. oh, folks don't want fwd in larger cars. oh wait, camry and aurion are selling ok lately.... umm well...

What's your point? Falcon is a better car? Falcon has more numbers on showroom floors? Toyota markets it's FWD large cars better?

prydey · 05-01-2013, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In Focus

What's your point? Falcon is a better car? Falcon has more numbers on showroom floors? Toyota markets it's FWD large cars better?

my point is, people try to find reasons why falcon isn't selling, but the fact is, it has very little to do with the actual car and a lot to do with the segment it is in, and the fact that the australian market is the most diverse in the world.

Archilino · 05-01-2013, 11:13 PM

Hypothetical ofcourse but if Ford chopped of the falcon's boot and turned it into a hatch but leaving everything else as is which would put it into Mazda3/Corolla segment, do u think it would rocket straight to #1 on the charts?

In Focus · 05-01-2013, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

my point is, people try to find reasons why falcon isn't selling, but the fact is, it has very little to do with the actual car and a lot to do with the segment it is in, and the fact that the australian market is the most diverse in the world.

OK, happy with that, and I agree. It just sounded like you were bagging Mondeo, hence I wanted to clarify.