Commodore thrashes Falcon in October sales - Page 2

mik · 04-11-2006, 09:53 PM

holden has always been agressive at marketing ,and toyota has definatley stepped up their pace advertising wise, ford definatley seems a bit slow off the mark compared to the the others

Perana · 04-11-2006, 09:56 PM

I wonder how many of those VE's are just demo cars registered by the dealers... I seem to remember a similar result at the launch of another Commodore that was attributed to this... The next month it was back down to normal.

buickman · 04-11-2006, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

I wonder how many of those VE's are just demo cars registered by the dealers... I seem to remember a similar result at the launch of another Commodore that was attributed to this... The next month it was back down to normal.

I think most would be leased cars by company's & their employees as both the VE & Camry are new body shapes & they would have been waiting as others have posted to be the new car in the street. I wonder how the Aurion will go. I think the 380 Mitsibishi has a bigger problem when this Toyota hits the showroom. I think Ford has found themselves in the same position as when the VT was released as they firesaled the EL. The BF is a goodlooking car so I hope they don't make the AU mistake which I once owned & found it a great car much nicer to drive than the POS 2000 model Camry I'am driving at the moment.

Boss 290 · 04-11-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS beast

All in good fun mate. The Falcon is a good looking car, compared to most cars on the road, I am a die hard Holden man so can't agree with your comment that the VE doesn't look good (agressive looking too I reckon with the flared guards). Holden & Ford both need to hold those damn Toyotas back though..........Cheers, it's beer 'o' clock.

at this point it looks to be holden showing the real competeion though...if only ford marketed aswell as they do. it must come down to marketing because thats the only reason why i could see these toyotas outselling ford and holden

Hawk · 04-11-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss 290

why do people buy camerys? is it the price? i know the falcon looks nicer, drives smoother, are more powerful, have better handling and brakes...whats the camery got? fuel eco and a cheap price?

Have you watched TV lately? Or listened to radio lately? Or watched the premier sporting events recently? Toyota is EVERYWHERE. Not only can they push every other car maker out of the market by using so much money on marketing (which isn't just advertising people), but they can build on the perception that their cars are good enough for the everyday person.

How many Joe Public's see the Toyota brand and equate it with reliability and dependability? When it comes to buying a car, Toyota's are okay to look at, drive fine for what Joe wants, have enough power, move around corners without a problem, pull to a stop fine and are not focused on blowing away the guy next to you at the lights. Add that to a cheap price and running costs and why wouldn't Joe buy a Toyota?

The fact is Ford does not have its premier car's 're-birth' at the most suitable time, has styling that is ageing against its major rivals despite refreshers (which Joe doesn't know/hear about anyway), retains the perception that because it is a large car it is not capable of delivering frugal fuel economy and retains the perception (possibility?) that it is not as reliable as its rivals. Why is this? Because the marketing power/dollars are simply NOT THERE and because its rivals are doing more than enough to represent themselves in the spotlight - because they can.

I love Fords, and people can call me alarmist/pessimistic, but there are a lot of things that are not aligned well enough at the moment for Ford to bring the Falcon back to the top.

Full Spectrum · 05-11-2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss 290

why do people buy camerys? is it the price? i know the falcon looks nicer, drives smoother, are more powerful, have better handling and brakes...whats the camery got? fuel eco and a cheap price?

I think they got nothing over both holden and fords. They look all right better then before but fuel econemey for a 4 is ****, They sound like **** too they really dont have a nice engine note and they are slow. There a waste of money because people think they are going too drive 5 years longer. Next door owns a Rav4 just came home on the back of a tow truck:P chalk one for the Toyota reliability

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU-MUSTD

We must thank holden for everything ford has because because otherwise we still would be caby fed with steel wheels if holden didnt force ford to move forward. Hopefuly fledging sales will force ford to try and not just match holden but better them not by a bit but by a lot in every department. Doubt i'll ever see that day though. So true with the leadership and laughing stock coments.

I think both can thank each other for improvement. If the VT wasnt so good with Gen3 the BA wouldnt have been this good. And if the BA wasnt as good as it is the VE wouldnt be what it is now.
Same with HSV and FPV.

QualityCounts · 05-11-2006, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

I think they got nothing over both holden and fords. They look all right better then before but fuel econemey for a 4 is ****, They sound like **** too they really dont have a nice engine note and they are slow. There a waste of money because people think they are going too drive 5 years longer. Next door owns a Rav4 just came home on the back of a tow truck:P chalk one for the Toyota reliability.

On a Sat arvo a few weeks ago, I took a 220 km round trip journey from Melbourne to Geelong in my new Rav4. Amazingly, the fuel consumption was only 15L or less than 7L/100km. I could not achieve that consumption figure with the Commodores, Falcon and Magna that I had owned before.

Boss 290 · 05-11-2006, 10:23 AM

whats with the new toyota add? most powerful n/a v6? big deal its torque is shat and doesnt kick in till too high in the mid range.....its misleading and i bet some people will be buying it and regreting coming at the lights with a run of the mill xt....but i have to admit, the car looks nice

ltd · 05-11-2006, 10:35 AM

Where do I begin? So many have listed the biggest problem for ford.
Historically, ford were still selling the model T for years after its first debut whilst the competition was eating away at their market share. But they were still running at full capacity. The difference? Henry Ford advertised the *** out of the Model T.
Diametrically opposed to this is the problem that Ford Aus has. No Advertising. Putting an ad in the print media is fine, but it is too hard to distinguish from all of the other ads and is overlooked.

Ford need to hit back where the competition is killing them, and get some damned advertising on the tv and radio networks. Try advertising the best fuel economy in the class, only 0.3l/100km over the 4 banger camry. Try selling the gas options, or the turbo cars, what about the force cars? TV covers many demographics and will lead to sales. FFS, try advertising. Try something please.

You can't have a product launch and hope the dealers will do everything for you. Doesn't matter how good or crap the competition is, the fact remains that they have market presence and ford has none. Product perceived quality, cost, and age are not a factor in this - and I'm really surprised by the lack of action at ford. As for their marketing department; what department? Seems to me it is just one guy who has worked all year on the fairmont ghia ad and has decided to take long service leave.
Absolutely shocking ford, for a car that is neither dated nor irrelevant, and is currently selling itself with no promotion. Even the website of ford took days to show all the models, and the lwb update (which apparently there is and it's on sale) hasn't been done. October sales indicate to me that fords promotions department have been caught napping.

I run a business and we have product launches/product updates for a $100.00 component that are better than fords' are; especially at 35K plus.
It's no big thing, you have to make the market aware of your product in order to sell it. I'll even donate my time for free to design a cost effective advertising program to woo the chinezzo's and Indians away from Camry and die hards from Holden.
Actually, I'd even develop for free with my own team a fully fledged business plan encompassing all aspects of ownership of ford vehicles in order to boost the makers reputation and ergo sales. Fuel scare yes, falcon sales plumetting as a result; shouldn't be any more than Holden or Toyota.

I recently was at the boeing plant in seattle WA and they've become the worlds largest airplane manufacturer and overtaken airbus with current models (the 787 won't be entering service until 2008), why?
Simply by making the whole experience of ownership easier than any other manufacturer, and having a network of facilities like parts available. Ease of service is also another issue addressed which is where Ford excels.
Personally I think Ford have too many hard headed executives who refuse to open their eyes to the reality that the competition has moved into new areas of media advertising and thusly are kicking their ***. Ford, I can get you a great deal on a blimp.

05-11-2006, 10:50 AM

Holden is doing a good job getting as many back orders for the Commo out in one month. But I highly doubt that these high sales rates will be sustainable for Holden.

GASWAGON · 05-11-2006, 11:14 AM

I cannot believe that this 'Billion Dollar Baby!' is no better on fuel economy than it's previous model.....I mean thats a shite load of cash....And especially with the 'All new' Alloytec which is a good compact powerplant, and with obvious rising fuel costs....But then again the BA was the same! There will be LOTS of average Joe's buying the Aurion for this reason alone! If Ford got there act together and produced an 'All new E-gas' system they would surely make some sales there with the new environmental issue being the next 'major' thing on the Governments list now, and Ford 'could' use it to there advantage for anyone that puts econonmy/emissions on their must have list......
Unless they sit back and wait for Holden/Toyota/Mitsi to do it first like they probably will...

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ltd · 05-11-2006, 11:24 AM

Actually you reminded me of my father colleague who does that Gas Injection system. No power loss, in actual fact a 190kw I6 runs 205kw on Gas with this system. Only problem, manufacturing capacity. I know someone that could help with that too. If ford had the gas injection which is patented, Holden, Toybota (top gear), and even Mitsubishi would be shaking in their dealies (simpsons).

05-11-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlkEB2

I cannot believe that this 'Billion Dollar Baby!' is no better on fuel economy than it's previous model.....I mean thats a shite load of cash....And especially with the 'All new' Alloytec which is a good compact powerplant, and with obvious rising fuel costs....But then again the BA was the same! There will be LOTS of average Joe's buying the Aurion for this reason alone! If Ford got there act together and produced an 'All new E-gas' system they would surely make some sales there with the new environmental issue being the next 'major' thing on the Governments list now, and Ford 'could' use it to there advantage for anyone that puts econonmy/emissions on their must have list......
Unless they sit back and wait for Holden/Toyota/Mitsi to do it first like they probably will...

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The 999 million went into the bloody blimp they have rolling around.

GASWAGON · 05-11-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLS

The 999 million went into the bloody blimp they have rolling around.

Huh.....nice one....rolling is right! I saw one of them 'just angin in the air' above my work near a the local dunny door dealer.......They had a hell of a time steering it was a pretty windy day.....I wonder just how many cars that "LEAD Zepplin' sold them...well Alloy Zep!!! Maybe it was too light for steering any good

:

red_hotxr6 · 05-11-2006, 05:39 PM

I still prefer ford quality over holden crap any day of the week.That,s why we own three.Personally i think those holden figures are "inflated".

Steffo · 05-11-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS beast

Fuel econ, price, quality & reliability are all that matter to some people.

All of those reasons provide the perfect argument AGAINST buying the Camry.

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MAGPIE · 05-11-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

All of those reasons provide the perfect argument AGAINST buying the Camry.

:

Or a Falcon for that matter

Steffo · 05-11-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Or a Falcon for that matter

Agreed. But it betters Camry in almost all categories.

bEAn86 · 05-11-2006, 07:40 PM

holden have the newest toy, i think it will be like that for a fear while too

Full Spectrum · 05-11-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QualityCounts

On a Sat arvo a few weeks ago, I took a 220 km round trip journey from Melbourne to Geelong in my new Rav4. Amazingly, the fuel consumption was only 15L or less than 7L/100km. I could not achieve that consumption figure with the Commodores, Falcon and Magna that I had owned before.

My Car is very happy on the highways.
In December I'll be getting a VE Calais for a 1000+km trip i'm going too see what it does o fuel.

paulvdb · 05-11-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QualityCounts

On a Sat arvo a few weeks ago, I took a 220 km round trip journey from Melbourne to Geelong in my new Rav4. Amazingly, the fuel consumption was only 15L or less than 7L/100km. I could not achieve that consumption figure with the Commodores, Falcon and Magna that I had owned before.

I have achieved just over 7 in Hertz XR6's and Maximas every time I visit Geelong. The road's super flat and with the dodgy speed limit the cars are only idling - so just about everything short of a Hummer will get a good run on that road.

So for drivers doing that run regularly they are kidding themselves if they think a 4cyl car is going to make a huge difference to a 6 or an 8.

05-11-2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QualityCounts

On a Sat arvo a few weeks ago, I took a 220 km round trip journey from Melbourne to Geelong in my new Rav4. Amazingly, the fuel consumption was only 15L or less than 7L/100km. I could not achieve that consumption figure with the Commodores, Falcon and Magna that I had owned before.

More Toyota marketing... Pls sod off to a Toyota forum.

new2ford · 06-11-2006, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RATT

More Toyota marketing... Pls sod off to a Toyota forum.

Why do you guys fall for the bait? C'mon dead flat motorway, no traffic lights, noreaster blowing behind on the way down, southerly on the way back? More a case of sad that somebody has to keep justifying their Toyo purchase on a Ford forum. Obviously some subliminal Ford envy there. Put him out of his misery RATT and sell him a Fiesta then he'll get even better economy.

GK · 06-11-2006, 10:07 AM

Ford are way too conservative when it comes to advertising. I was under the impression that advertising budgets were tax deductions! If that is indeed true, why the heck are Ford sitting on their laurels?

The BF2 is a great car, I'd have one today if I had the money. Especially the Fairmont Ghia.

GK

merlin · 06-11-2006, 10:16 AM

Interesting that Ford is so down and Commodore so high - I would have predicted either both going well (with Holden in front due to new model) or both going bad due to high fuel prices and the shift to smaller cars - quite mind boggling. I mean I have made my thoughts on the falling large car segment clear before - poor resale, quality, fuel consumption ect. (wether real or percieved, dosnt matter) but these things apply equally to Commodore as they do to Falcon so its got me beat.

I've seen quite a few new Camry's on the road, only seen two VE's both Omega's (passed them on the M4) and sorry but I wanted to barf when I saw them - they were the ugliest cars I have ever seen and the wife agreed. Oh and I am quite partial to owning a Commdore, no bias here, but yuck. The ride height is ridiculously high, the back end looks like it was styled by a blind ex Audi employee and is on a silly slpoed angle. The front looks hilarious with the exagerrated pumped guards with tiny steelies - reminds me of a VZ Adventra front on. Sat in one at the motorshow and still prefer the BA interior too.

Have yet to see an SS at speed so cant comment on the sports models but hope they look a whole lot better than the base.

PDIDDY · 06-11-2006, 10:24 AM

I think the real truth behind these "Comode" figures is that most of the larger fleets are starting to change to the new model. We will see November's figures change more to our favour with the release of BF MKII,and the Ford fleets starting to change to them.

Falcon Freak · 06-11-2006, 10:25 AM

I hope you are correct.

FF

rst2000 · 06-11-2006, 10:49 AM

marketing is ford's biggest problem...did anyone realize that ford won both enduro's this year in the v8supercars.........enough said.

AshMan · 06-11-2006, 11:07 AM

I like the new fairmont ads, but I agree with everyone else when saying that Ford need to sell the whole range of their cars, not just an upper market luxury car...

The mitsu ads basically show the whole range in one ad, toyota and holden you will see several ads of different cars in their range in rapid succession...

Fords ads I would sometimes describe as "silly".

The Turbo Territory eating sports cars for breakfast is a cool ad...

I'm sick of seeing the commode with the ugly orange plasticy dash.

BadMac · 06-11-2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDIDDY

I think the real truth behind these "Comode" figures is that most of the larger fleets are starting to change to the new model. We will see November's figures change more to our favour with the release of BF MKII,and the Ford fleets starting to change to them.

I don't think you'll find too many fleets are buying them (except user choosers).

I have just got quotes to replace my leased XR6. Base Omega was OVER $100/month more than a A6 XR6 (I got 3 quotes, all were similar). Kind of makes a fleet managers decision easy.

Id be more worried about how many Falcon sales were full discount fleet. Many people are choosing Ford over Holden for leasing just due to the price difference. Problem is Ford must be hurting with the discounts while it *appears* Holden may be making its volumes through mostly full retail margin sales.