Learner drivers... give them a chance...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by superpursuit05

An inherit problem of the log book system. People dismissive of the basic road rules passing their bad habits on to their kids. Good argument for driver education as a mandatory subject at school. It's a life skill most people will use unlike algebra.

We've been through the same problem as the OP with three of our kids. About the only advantage they had was they knew how to drive before the got their 'L's (grand parents property). The fourth has been go karting to get the basics.

Totally agreed, my Son had done 60 hours of his 75 before he had a proper lesson with an instructor, half of what i'd taught him, things that i'd been taught when i went for my learners, was thrown out the window.
I even had input from a mate who is a retired instructor and its surprising how much has changed even in a few years.

Having done my best to show him the basics, it blew me away how much more fluent he drove after just 1 lesson with a professional filtering out the unnecessary stuff.
I now firmly believe every driver should have atleast 4 paid driving lessons with an instructor before they begin their compulsory hours with a parent/friend so they know what the basic components of learning to drive are before bad habits are passed on as fact with good intentions.

[lucas2]

We all have to start from somewhere. People forget that.

[LTDHO]

I agree Rallye.

Whilst it's disappointing on how experienced road users treat learner drivers. I am concerned with how some learner drivers are taught, particularly by so called instructors.

[Silver Ghia]

I have patience for learners.

But I don't have patience with the licenced person next to them when they are not advising the learner what to do in certain situations. Like making sure they are in the correct lane well before making a turn, who to give way to and how to indicate at roundabouts etc.

Many times it seems the licenced person is just there for the ride, and not instructing.

Edit: Seems LTDHO just posted similar thoughts...

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Totally agreed, my Son had done 60 hours of his 75 before he had a proper lesson with an instructor, half of what i'd taught him, things that i'd been taught when i went for my learners, was thrown out the window.
I even had input from a mate who is a retired instructor and its surprising how much has changed even in a few years.

Having done my best to show him the basics, it blew me away how much more fluent he drove after just 1 lesson with a professional filtering out the unnecessary stuff.
I now firmly believe every driver should have atleast 4 paid driving lessons with an instructor before they begin their compulsory hours with a parent/friend so they know what the basic components of learning to drive are before bad habits are passed on as fact with good intentions.

Or anyone who wishes to 'train' their kids, needs to pass a course of some sort to show they are up to date with current rules (even just making them sit the L's test would be able to weed out 90% of the oldies who have no clue)

[uniacidz]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I have patience for learners.

But I don't have patience with the licenced person next to them when they are not advising the learner what to do in certain situations. Like making sure they are in the correct lane well before making a turn, who to give way to and how to indicate at roundabouts etc.

Many times it seems the licenced person is just there for the ride, and not instructing.

Edit: Seems LTDHO just posted similar thoughts...

Exactly this

Like the blind leading the blind





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[blackf6]

When you drive a truck, all other drivers seem like learners. Still can't understand why somebody would hop into a lane, in front of a fully loaded rig. Right before the next set of lights. Why not wait till after the lights? I make a point of not tailgating people. EVER. Even if they are driving like a doucebag under the limit. I stay well away.

[Express]

I never understand why people tailgate.

Apart from the obvious accident risk, tailgating = stone chips.

[AJ09]

Originally Posted by blackf6

When you drive a truck, all other drivers seem like learners. Still can't understand why somebody would hop into a lane, in front of a fully loaded rig. Right before the next set of lights. Why not wait till after the lights? I make a point of not tailgating people. EVER. Even if they are driving like a doucebag under the limit. I stay well away.

I agree, driving a bus I cop exactly the same thing. Another thing I can't understand is why these morons tailgate buses and trucks.

Learners deserve a chance and some space (my Son is one of them). I come across more stupidity from drivers who should know better and from driving instructors.

[furiousgibbon]

I try my best to give them a break, but when I see someone out on the highway when they should still be doing laps of the empty shopping centre carpark, it makes me furious. The foolish parents and even professional instructors should know better. I was coming down an 80km/h road today and a learner who had pulled over to the side of the road waited until I was right there before pulling back onto the road at a snails pace. I gave a quick flash of the high beams to make him aware that he screwed up, then 100m up the road he brakes hard and pulls back off the road to do a U turn over double whites. I wanted to pull the guy out of the passenger seat and slap him hard. To be honest the learner driver deserved a slap for that move as well, he should be thinking. Damn fools.

When I was learning to drive I spent what felt like an eternity doing bog laps in an empty carpark before I was even allowed out onto the road, and even then I kept it to the 50km/h backstreets until I had a proper feel of the car and the roads.

[westoftown]

I recall being on my L's, 10 years ago:

We have a street a block from my parents house that is a pretty decent incline, and goes for about 300 metres. Dad parked me at the very bottom of that hill and said "Put it in first, and crawl right to the top". Good lesson in both clutch, and throttle control for two clumsy beginners feet.

Always exercise patience with the L platers, as we all once were one. That and cars with interstate number plates, they're just lost and don't know where they're going, cut them some slack too.

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Or anyone who wishes to 'train' their kids, needs to pass a course of some sort to show they are up to date with current rules (even just making them sit the L's test would be able to weed out 90% of the oldies who have no clue)

Agreed on that one... and if they can't pass put them back on L's with their kiddo...

A mates step daughter is being taught by her mother at the moment, makes me cringe, theres at least one scrape on every panel of her car, she's erratic, can barely see over the wheel and rages at the drop of the hat, even before she got her L's the kid thinks thats just the way you drive...

I'm lucky with my nephew we have a different relationship to his mum and dad, at that age I wouldn't listen to my old man and took everything as criticism, in hindsight dad wasn't doing anything wrong...

[BPXR6T]

Make it part of school curriculum. Pretty sure it was at one stage and dropped not too long before I went through high school.

[Qwerty321]

Originally Posted by mitelsx2000

Its so hard for kids to get thier learners in NZ. The amount of hours my 2 x boys did was amazing, but worth it in the end driving my work car every where possible. a few tanks of gas was used!!!

Now they got their restricted, they have not looked back

It's not tooo bad. But it definitely does take a lot of driving. I got my license 3 years ago (just after they changed it to the hard new system) and it took an entire year and 2 attempts for me to get my restricted. A year after that passed my full on the first go.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Or anyone who wishes to 'train' their kids, needs to pass a course of some sort to show they are up to date with current rules (even just making them sit the L's test would be able to weed out 90% of the oldies who have no clue)

There should be a minimum requirement to teach a learner, mainly due the fact that the majority of their road manor is what the teacher taught. My older sister got taught by my mum who is completely oblivious of other road users and pretty sketchy at best, and what do you know, even with a full licence, copping to much abuse for irrational lane changes and such, my sister doesn't drive or own a car anymore. My brother and dad taught me way back when, and both were smooth drivers who used due courtesy and took pride in their cars, so I learnt alot back then especially not to scratch dad's jag, and I'd be left with a dent in my head if I put a mark on my brothers kingswood. 12 years later I have a car with no damage and have never lost a point, which I attribute to being taught the right thing first time

[BENT_8]

All good to say those parents teaching learners should have some higher qualification but that would mean every parent would need to do it as every kid would require it.
Impossible to implement just as 10 year retesting would choke up the system.

There are plenty of kids who cant get a license because they dont have access to someone with a car or the time to devote 75hrs to them, imagine if the field was narrowed to only those who've passed a course.

It would make far more sense for learners to have had their instructed lessons and passed a preliminary test before they are permitted to spend 75hrs with someone who may be clueless and then sit a final exam to display their ability to continue driving as per instructed initially.
It would also highlight wether the 75hrs was infact completed and not just signed off as the improvement would be noticable in the final testing.

It really isnt rocket science, i know i will be a better guide for my Daughter who gets her l's in June than i was for my son as i now know what the instructor will want demonstrated.

[paule11]

My son had a few incidents when learning worse was a bloke in a 4wd abusing him and wanting to fight him. Son pulled over and the abusive driver got 50 meters in front then reversed back as if he was going to ram him wife took out a phone and held it up as if she was filming once they seen that they stopped. I went onto a bad driving page on facebook and a driving instructor was talking of going to the police and reporting someone for similar behavior it was the same person 2 times in one day.

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by chevypower

When I had my learners, my dad had a brand new VS Statesman V8, and what joy it was to beat P-platers and fully-licensed drivers. Very immature of me, but it was all lot of fun. [...]

And this is possibly one of the reasons that experienced drivers treat many learners with contempt. If you really were dragging off other cars as an L-plater, then your dad should've immediately kicked you up the rectum.

Learning to drive should never be regarded simply as a "lot of fun"—in reality it should be a deadly [sic] serious procedure. I just hope you've never passed on this attitude to your kids if you've taught them to drive. There's already far too many "immature" drivers on our roads—learners and fully licensed.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

All good to say those parents teaching learners should have some higher qualification but that would mean every parent would need to do it as every kid would require it.
Impossible to implement just as 10 year retesting would choke up the system.

There are plenty of kids who cant get a license because they dont have access to someone with a car or the time to devote 75hrs to them, imagine if the field was narrowed to only those who've passed a course.

It would make far more sense for learners to have had their instructed lessons and passed a preliminary test before they are permitted to spend 75hrs with someone who may be clueless and then sit a final exam to display their ability to continue driving as per instructed initially.
It would also highlight wether the 75hrs was infact completed and not just signed off as the improvement would be noticable in the final testing.

It really isnt rocket science, i know i will be a better guide for my Daughter who gets her l's in June than i was for my son as i now know what the instructor will want demonstrated.

Havn't you heard that old saying, having a license is a privilege, not a right. If you dont have someone who can do the hours who is trained, you'd get an instructor (just as you'd do now if you dont have someone with a car).

It doesn't need to be every parent, only those wishing to teach their kids. Some parents want no part in that!

Who cares if it chokes up the system? It could create more jobs, and more revenue, and better drivers. I cant see a downside, other than making it harder for **** drivers to teach their kids to be **** drivers (but that goes back to the privilege, not a right thing).

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by blackf6

When you drive a truck, all other drivers seem like learners. Still can't understand why somebody would hop into a lane, in front of a fully loaded rig. Right before the next set of lights. Why not wait till after the lights? I make a point of not tailgating people. EVER. Even if they are driving like a doucebag under the limit. I stay well away.

It is not a part of getting your licence. Sadly people are not shown how to drive around trucks and they can get a full licence! That is why so many people pull into the braking area or blind spot of a truck. Simply, they do not understand as they were never shown.

[GTMOND]

I always have patience for L platers as we were all there at some stage. But learning to share roads with trucks is one part we should be teaching people.
Maybe they should teach everyone getting there license,just to back off a touch when being overtaken by a truck. It's not very pleasant being hung out to dry when you start running out of road.
When drivers sit on 90-95 speed and the speed fluctuates, I often think what's going to happen this time when I overtake.

[FPV+fteT3]

I taught both my daughters to drive in a manual subaru they learned to reverse in the local stockland car park backing from the one end to the other along the rear loading road around skips to reverse park behind a skip. They learned the basics at Kooragang Island and in the industrial area on sunday arvo then when ready progressed to traffic. Both had just 2 lessons with an instructor who suggested they sit for the test as they were ready. The instructor just taught them how to pass the test not drive the car. I did not fudge the book like a lot do, both did the 120+ hours, day, night, in the wet as was the rules in NSW its a lot of driving and when you sit for the test the I am sure the testing officer can tell if you have done the 120 hrs or not.
As a driver I give the L plates a fair go as they can stall, turn wide, indicate late etc… no need to be a tool around them I know my kids early on were sweating bullets when driving, I forgot how daunting it is for the newbie. Its not easy teaching others how to drive you have to look at your self first and teach how you should drive not as you do.

[Falcojimmy]

I think this is one of the best campaigns the TAC has done. So many people are teaching kids bad habits around driving before they ever get to put the L plates up. As much as speed/lack of road rule knowledge it's things like incorrect use of seatbelts/phones, impatience, road rage, tailgating etc. that are getting passed down and it sucks!
My parents were both very sensible drivers/good teachers and it has rubbed off on me (only had one fine in 16 years on the road). As others have said, it is never the learner that annoys me on the road, only bad instructing.

[ford71V8]

Make sure the L Plate is clearly visible.

About a year ago, I was following what I thought to be a moronic dip**** one night. Non-consistent speed keeping and all over the road. Drunk maybe? With no way around I was stuck behind them and we then both turned right at a roundabout.
I almost hit the car when for no reason at all the driver stopped dead half way around.
I saw red and blasted the horn.
We both got going again and the next turnoff was mine.
Just as a turned left I watched the car in front continue on and then I saw it... L Plate stuck on the boot lid. Near on impossible to see, this thing was pointing to the sky, but geez I felt real bad. I got myself back onto the main road to catch them and to apologise before giving up, thinking I'm gonna make a bad thing a lot worse if I try and get their attention at speed.

Still feel ****** about that. Probably shattered their confidence in seconds.

[SumoDog68]

Interesting to see how some believe that not having any fines makes for a good driver :-)
To me driving is a skill that can be tested in many ways - I see some low skilled drivers ( bad cornering technique, bad positioning and distance control , bad spatial awareness , bad lane choice for the speed they are travelling at , bad signalling of their intentions , lack of cooperation with other road users , braking on a straight ,empty road at random , I could go on) - on daily basis and am pretty sure they have impeccable driving record compared to mine ( I ve had some low level speeding fines in the past , nothing else).
As for learner driver training - professional training is the go as they have dual control cars . Once skill and confidence is at reasonable level it is time to start building up experience .

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by ford71V8

Make sure the L Plate is clearly visible.

There's been times I've been following a car driving abnormally, then after a while discover an 'L' plate hidden by the window tint.

Forty something years ago when I got my licence, 'L' and 'P' plates had to be mounted at the front and rear of the car, not in windows.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Totally agreed, my Son had done 60 hours of his 75 before he had a proper lesson with an instructor, half of what i'd taught him, things that i'd been taught when i went for my learners, was thrown out the window.
I even had input from a mate who is a retired instructor and its surprising how much has changed even in a few years.

Having done my best to show him the basics, it blew me away how much more fluent he drove after just 1 lesson with a professional filtering out the unnecessary stuff.
I now firmly believe every driver should have atleast 4 paid driving lessons with an instructor before they begin their compulsory hours with a parent/friend so they know what the basic components of learning to drive are before bad habits are passed on as fact with good intentions.

Whilst I agree with this, for every good professional driving instructor, there are 12 wannabe instructors who are dangerous at best (driving through Box Hill, Nunawading and surrounds in Melbourne can be Russian roulette when one comes across a learner being instructed by such a beast).

Waffle aside, I have all the patience in the world for learners, regardless of the IQ of the instructor; the last thing they need is getting a hurry-up from a half human, half yeti

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by b0son

Yep, when they're that green, keep them well away from busy traffic. I get annoyed at the parents who take their kids out for practice in peak hour traffic who clearly aren't up to the task yet. Or onto the freeway where they're a mobile chicane?

In NSW all L and P plate drivers are mobile chicanes on the freeway since they are not allowed to do the speed limit for 'safety' reasons.


On my L's apart from the odd driver tailgating I only had a couple of problems, both times I don't believe I really did anything wrong.

First was long, windy uphill section. 60km/h limit with a speed camera. I was doing 55-60 the whole way up. Grey Falcon wagon laying on the horn behind me. I didn't think 5 under the limit was such a bad things for a few kms.

Second was when the left lane was ending. A bogan women comes flying up the left to push in front of me. I slow down to let them in and then they start going off, brake checking and just carrying on. Next set of lights they stopped next to me and said they were calling the police because my younger brother was in the back seat and it's illegal to have passengers on L plates. Pretty funny watching my mum giving them a spray.

But the few times where I stalled it, or took longer to pull out onto a main road I never had any rage from cars behind me.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Havn't you heard that old saying, having a license is a privilege, not a right. If you dont have someone who can do the hours who is trained, you'd get an instructor (just as you'd do now if you dont have someone with a car).

Lol, at $80 an hour, that would require an outlay of $6000 just to complete the 75hrs, you're right driving wouldnt be a priveledge, just for those priveledged to have a family able to outlay $6k...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

It is not a part of getting your licence. Sadly people are not shown how to drive around trucks and they can get a full licence! That is why so many people pull into the braking area or blind spot of a truck. Simply, they do not understand as they were never shown.

Actually it was for me, the first thing my instructor did 23yrs ago when i had my first lesson was to get me sitting in the drivers seat, mirrors adjusted and then he walked around the car allowing me to only use peripheral vision and mirrors to see him, it demonstrated just how easily a semi trailer can hide in your blind spot.