View: L plate drivers should be on P plate restrictions.

[Coogs289]

The rules seem adequate to me. The only thing I don't like is that I can't drive an XR GT, but I can drive an FG XR6 (I'm on my L's). That makes no sense whatsoever!!!

[artwebber]

theres cylender restriction but what about putting a 13b rotary in somthing light like a old corolla since in vic power to weight law was thrown out the window

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Um no, they are a step put into place because before restrictions the incidence of stupidity in high powered cars was prevalent, its also plain common sense...

The current ban everything that is V8 or turbocharged vs previous power/weight and/or capacity/weight ratios? The current system is a step backwards as the previous system was effective in keeping drivers out of cars above a certain performance level. The new system allows some higher performance cars while restricting cars with as much as half the power of some legal cars. Current 3.6 litre 6 cyl Commodore vs a Holden 253 V8 is a good example. 210kw vs about 100kw in a VH Commodore. The current one is about 300kg heavier. Today's SV6 (manual) is also above the old 125 kw/tonne ratio.
We've had luxury German marques and companies like Volvo criticising the ban turbos rule as their relatively sedate and safe models with low pressure 4 cyl turbo motors that were well under the previous power/weight rule are now banned for P platers.

NSW was wrong to introduce these revised restrictions and the Vic government was twice as stupid to follow them - despite hearing all the warranted criticisms of the NSW system.

The incidence of stupidity in all sorts of cars continues

By previous system I never meant no car restrictions, just the cars that are actually high performance. 125kW/tonne was a fair measuring stick.

I think that learners and high performance cars aren't much of an issue because most families would choose to put their son or daughter in the less powerful, slower and cheaper car where possible. If there was a 300kW HSV in the driveway, most parents simply wouldn't put a learner in one and take the common 6 cyl SUV or 4 cyl medium 2nd car instead.

[Franco Cozzo]

Look at your average P plater and the type of car they have, usually its some $5000 90s car. V8s of the 90s are pretty crappy, especially the Windsor in the E series Falcons, I don't see why they are specifically banned, but we remove power to weight ratio and pass things like RX7/8s.

Pretty much any stock $5000 car with a V8 only has a nice noise, big fuel consumption without the performance to back it up, everyone wins except for the driver, insurance companies, petrol station, government.

I reckon, bring back ye olde power to weight ratio.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Look at your average P plater and the type of car they have, usually its some $5000 90s car. V8s of the 90s are pretty crappy, especially the Windsor in the E series Falcons, I don't see why they are specifically banned, but we remove power to weight ratio and pass things like RX7/8s.

Pretty much any stock $5000 car with a V8 only has a nice noise, big fuel consumption without the performance to back it up, everyone wins except for the driver, insurance companies, petrol station, government.

I reckon, bring back ye olde power to weight ratio.

Half the p platers in my area have cars less than 4 years old... probably on finance...

[jmack]

same around here, mates brother bought a skyline on his learners it come down to most parents saying no to their children once in a while .wonder why they are the way they are

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Half the p platers in my area have cars less than 4 years old... probably on finance...

Yeah, I'm an L plater and Ive got an 09 plated car, lol.

But power to weight ratio will certainly ban any modern V8 car. Boss 260 is banned by power to weight.

[Trevor 57]

Kids are allowed to learn in 'high powered' vehicles, the Vic Govmt looked at changing it after a 5 people death crash near Bendigo a few years back, but decided not too, it really didn't matter in this case, the young learner lost control due to different circumstaces, it had nothing to do with the high powered car.

The law is this mainly due to the fact if they changed it then parents would have to buy a 'P Plate' acceptable car to teach their kids in and this isn't at all practical, also as has been said above, they are under supervision.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Yeah, I'm an L plater and Ive got an 09 plated car, lol.

But power to weight ratio will certainly ban any modern V8 car. Boss 260 is banned by power to weight.

So it should be....

[Trevor 57]

Has anyone else noticed the over-representation of VN, VS, VP, VT Commodores in accident stats?

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Has anyone else noticed the over-representation of VN, VS, VP, VT Commodores in accident stats?

Yeah I had a similar thread regarding this ages ago.

It was determined that there are more of them on our roads, then Falc's.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

It was determined that there are more of them on our roads, then Falc's.

Not now, according to news road accident footage

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

So it should be....

Exactly, which is why we should still have power to weight ratio, which we don't anymore. Its still banned under V8 law though.

If they can specifically list a few cars on a ban list, they can do some more and specifically ban certain V8s/rotaries and go back to ye olde power to weight ratio. E series XR8 isn't a fire breathing dragon, either is a stock 351 Clevo in an XE or F100.

Under turbo exemption laws here in Vic, theoretically, a Toyota Aristo is able to be exempted, it has child restraint ancorages, has 4 doors, 5 seats and isn't a "sports coupe". It still has a very potent 2JZGTE though.

[Silver Ghia]

IMO it doesnt matter what sort of car they are learning in, provided there is a responsible and knowledgeable instructor next to the learner, who is being attentive at all times, and, knows how to drive properly and pass that knowledge across to the learner.

Actually IMO in those circumstances a higher powered car would make a better driver overall when taught properly. They would know to respect the performance, not abuse it when they get their performance car later on.

Unfortunately, the big problem I see generally is that too many learners are not being given the proper tuition, they do many things incorrectly and appear not to get corrected. eg. cutting across double laned roundabouts. Probably the licenced driver sitting next to them doesnt know any better either. They seem to be just driving around getting their hours up.

But when they get their 'P's' then there should be performance restrictions with no anomalies like they seem to have at present, only because of some drivers for the obvious reasons.

[bigdude1011]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Has anyone else noticed the over-representation of VN, VS, VP, VT Commodores in accident stats?

It's because only bogan spawn drive VN-VT Commodores these days. These bogans are the Darwin Award candidates.

Here in Canberra, (I don't mean to generalise), mainly people from South Asia or East Asia drive EF-AU Falcons, and most of them drive safely.

[dave289]

some of you want to argue about changing it from v8,s and turbos to power to weight ,but there are also many problems there ,if they can drive a standard xt falcon at 190 kw ,which one would asume to be the banchmark, then they could also drive a 165 kw vn ss 5 speed which would be quicker and about the same power to weight ratio.where do you drawn the line and what would be the benchmark???

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by dave289

some of you want to argue about changing it from v8,s and turbos to power to weight ,but there are also many problems there ,if they can drive a standard xt falcon at 190 kw ,which one would asume to be the banchmark, then they could also drive a 165 kw vn ss 5 speed which would be quicker and about the same power to weight ratio.where do you drawn the line and what would be the benchmark???

It used to be anything 125Kw:Tonne was banned, now its no limit but no V8s or turbos*

* exemptions available for turbo cars.

Except they've gone and banned stuff like BMW M3, Nissan 350/370Z etc.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The allowance for L platers to drive unrestricted vehicles is fair and reasonable.

It serves 2 purposes:

1) allows mums and dad to teach their kids in the family car.
2) makes allowance for a responsible person sitting beside the L Plater giving good instruction and monitoring/controlling their behavior.

It shows and works to the premise that powerful cars are NOT dangerous if driven carefully and responsibly which i agree with.

The P Plate restrictions then come into effect and are valid and reasonable because once they get their P Plates they're left without supervision which IS where the problems occur.....

Well put 4Vman.

Insurance companies will confirm that the actual accident rate for L platers is the lowest of any driving group. This does not show the heart attack or panic attack rates for instructors though.

My view in pictures..