Support your paramedics

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by trublu

Well boys I have worked in emergency situations years ago & as the old saying
" If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"
Not being rude but it is true.
Some people are cut out for it while others are not.

Great attitude there mate.

I wish you well with your inexperienced paramedic crew that have a combined total of 3 years experience between them when you or your family need them. I know I would prefer a crew with 20+ years experience between them managing my time of need. But you won't get that because all the experienced ones are now "getting out of the kitchen".

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Dalonian

In Victoria, the standard 4 weeks of annual leave. Then we get an extra week because we work weekends/public holidays. So 5 weeks of annual leave.

The roster we work is x2 10 hours shifts and x2 14 hour shifts so we work 48 hours a week. As a result we earn roughly 3 weeks worth of ADOs.

So it works out to be 8 weeks of paid leave. The common misconception is that we get 8 weeks of annual leave (or even 10 as stated by our beloved health minister) however if you break it down we get the same 4 weeks as everyone else and the rest is essentially compensation for overtime.

Ours is a bit complex, we work 12 hr shifts that is loosely a 2 days and 2 nights arrangements but there are periods throughout the roster where we have multiple afternoon shifts or multiple day shifts.

My base rate of pay at the highest increment (we have 3 increments spaced at 2 years apart) is $29/hr which is less than an enrolled nurse gets paid in QLD.

We get 6 weeks annual leave which is good and two weeks accrued leave to make up for the fact that we average 40 hours per week, not 38. We do not get weekend penalties and will soon lose our night shift penalties as well in exchange for a "aggregate rate" that is unaffected by how many weekends or night shifts we actually work.

The end result is we work an average of 40 hrs per week, plus at least 5 hrs overtime, 7 days a week missing 3 1/3 weekends out of 6, not seeing our family for days on end and having no ability to plan social lives or sporting interests. We also have extreme pressures at work with the decisions we make with responsibilities far beyond the pay we receive. We deal with trauma, death, destruction and the darkness of humanity daily and we do it all for about $70-80k a year at the highest increment.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I get the ***** if I have to work 3 minutes extra over my finish time so imagine if I was forced to do several hours OT with no choice.

Is there no option for you to strike? I do realise there are people out there with life threatening issues that need the service however if they get a fatigued ambo after working 14 straight hours the risk is exceptionally high that mistakes can be made.

Strike is the worst thing we can do. We are responsible for the lives and health of the public. If we strike we put peoples lives at risk and that is not what we do. The government know this, they know we won't do it and they use that against us. That is why our only hope of fixing this is public education and getting public support. The average public member thinks we get paid more than registered nurses and over $100k a year, spend lots of time at station waiting for callouts and get never-ending support from the service.

The truth is we get paid less than enrolled nurses, spend 12 hours on shift with no meal breaks, no rest pauses and if we have a problem with any of it we get "managed" out of the service.

[noddy383]

Let me say first and foremost that ambos are on a very short list of careers that I will instantly respect someone for doing and that I am eternally grateful to all those who are brave enough to take on the huge burden that goes with it.
I'm a radiographer and have worked in the country, in big public hospitals and now in a relatively cushy private hospital.
I've seen trauma patients from all sorts of incidents and I work extended hours being on call and getting called in in the middle of the night, but I know that none of that compares to what our front-line emergency services see. Plus I only get rostered on for 8 hours.
I wish that there was a real and acute threat that ambos could make to force the government to listen, but short of putting lives at risk, there is nothing other than the chronic issue of burnout and breakdown that plague the industry. As proud as it makes me, it truly scares me that my best friend and my younger brother are looking to be paramedics because I've talked with paramedics who have either given up life outside of work, including relationships or are virtually burning out in front of my eyes.

I thank every one of you and wish you all the best in improving BOTH your pay and conditions.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by trublu

Well boys I have worked in emergency situations years ago & as the old saying
" If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"
Not being rude but it is true.
Some people are cut out for it while others are not.

So much nativity in that statement.

Problem is, the heat is rising, and the kitchen is getting crowded. And there will be a point where everyone walks out of the kitchen. What happens then?

And you say that it wont happen, they wont strike, because they are good, self sacrificing people who put themselves out there. And that's what the Ambulance dept hold over them. They know they wont strike because its not fair on the people who need their help because they are (quite literally sometimes) innocent bystanders, who didnt ask to be in a car accident, didnt ask to get burned in a fire, etc.

And what if the majority of emergency workers cant "stand the heat" get out and only the ones who can do stay? Current staffing levels are too low. What are you going to do when your bleeding out after a car accident with no way to treat it yourself because your pinned? Beat you wish the AC got turned on in the kitchen awhile ago huh?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Revolver

So much nativity in that statement.

Problem is, the heat is rising, and the kitchen is getting crowded. And there will be a point where everyone walks out of the kitchen. What happens then?

And you say that it wont happen, they wont strike, because they are good, self sacrificing people who put themselves out there. And that's what the Ambulance dept hold over them. They know they wont strike because its not fair on the people who need their help because they are (quite literally sometimes) innocent bystanders, who didnt ask to be in a car accident, didnt ask to get burned in a fire, etc.

And what if the majority of emergency workers cant "stand the heat" get out and only the ones who can do stay? Current staffing levels are too low. What are you going to do when your bleeding out after a car accident with no way to treat it yourself because your pinned? Beat you wish the AC got turned on in the kitchen awhile ago huh?

That is what many people do not realise is already happening, we constantly have shift not staffed, stations closed and massive hole in coverage of the community due to staff shortages. But the government won't tell you that.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Strike is the worst thing we can do. We are responsible for the lives and health of the public. If we strike we put peoples lives at risk and that is not what we do. The government know this, they know we won't do it and they use that against us. That is why our only hope of fixing this is public education and getting public support. The average public member thinks we get paid more than registered nurses and over $100k a year, spend lots of time at station waiting for callouts and get never-ending support from the service.

The truth is we get paid less than enrolled nurses, spend 12 hours on shift with no meal breaks, no rest pauses and if we have a problem with any of it we get "managed" out of the service.

Thats bull****.

I have all the respect in the world for paramedics so its completely ****** that I hear this happening.

*thinks about running as a local MP*

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Thats bull****.

I have all the respect in the world for paramedics so its completely ****** that I hear this happening.

*thinks about running as a local MP*

Thanks, other option is to write to your local MP and get him to explain why this is the case, get your friends and family to do so as well.

[Franco Cozzo]

23 minute response time here in Central/Northern rural region for Ambos in Vic.

No good.

[Dalonian]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

23 minute response time here in Central/Northern rural region for Ambos in Vic.

No good.

To put it into context, 23 minutes for life threatening emergencies. Hours for other lesser acuity cases. And the high court recently upheld an injunction to publish the real times. The Victorian ambulance crisis isn't getting better any time soon.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

My question to you, would you want to go to work knowing that you have no choice you must do overtime at the end of your shift with such frequency that it happens more than you actually finish on time? It happens to us so regularly that we actually get excited if we finish on time. I can tell that if many industries tried that on their workforce there would be strike action.

You forget that a huge slice of the workforce aren't employed on a shift-basis, but are salaried, and expected to put in whatever hours the job requires. I used to work 80hrs/week, couldn't accrue leave (was lucky to be able to use half of it), required to work weekends, discouraged from taking time off in lieu, etc.

Point is, plenty of workers in plenty of industries get the shaft.

[Franco Cozzo]

That's why being a member of your union is important, have a look at the conditions that the construction industry has and how strong safety regulation is.

Your annual leave and paid sick days weren't gifted to you by business.

The reason people tend to unionize in a shop is there are serious underlying issues which are being ignored, for my situation at the time we turned to them after more than a year of trying to sort out issues we had which kept getting ignored.

The only reason why I am still a member is that my political party membership requires it

[GasoLane]

I'm not a big fan of Unions, but it looks like the Ambo's need one.

If they already have one they're not doing too much.

[Franco Cozzo]

Vic has the AEA which is doing the big campaign for better conditions, as people were saying they won't just go out on strike, so they can be bullied and pushed around easily.

If you see a Vic Ambo you'll notice it has writing all over it, I'll post up pics when I get home.

[Dalonian]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Vic has the AEA which is doing the big campaign for better conditions, as people were saying they won't just go out on strike, so they can be bullied and pushed around easily.

If you see a Vic Ambo you'll notice it has writing all over it, I'll post up pics when I get home.

Paramedics are also wearing red t shirts/polos/jackets with Code Red: Value Your Ambos. All we can do is wear Union campaign clothes and write on our ambulances (both were very hardly fought by Ambulance Victoria) as we are not allowed to strike, so Protected Industrial Action is all we have to fight with.

[Franco Cozzo]

Yeah I have the stickers and a t-shirt.

I used to build your ambulances bro

What a poo storm that was, I feel sorry for you guys driving those horrible rattly pieces of crap.

The cupboards rattle, the door catches don't even lock half the time, reverse sensors upside down, the flash patterns on the emergency lights don't match, the list goes on lol.

[Dalonian]

Haha nice, Mader or ETT? Door latches on the drawers that don't lock, in front of the jockey seat, are the most annoying lol. Oh and when the screen for the reverse cameras is put right over the dashboard cupholder too lol.

[Franco Cozzo]

ETT, for those not familiar with the two manufacturers, the older ETT ambos have fiberglass rear wings with LED red and blue modules on it.

The newer ones ditched the rear wing and have a light bar but with raw aluminum brackets holding LED work lights.

you 'll be well acquainted with faulty touch screen controls double pressing everything, oh and the reverse camera monitor location blocking the cup holders was a request from the rural paramedics according to fleet management as they preferred it there.

I'd be interested in taking this to PM if you want to discuss further issues and why we didn't fix them.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by b0son

You forget that a huge slice of the workforce aren't employed on a shift-basis, but are salaried, and expected to put in whatever hours the job requires. I used to work 80hrs/week, couldn't accrue leave (was lucky to be able to use half of it), required to work weekends, discouraged from taking time off in lieu, etc.

Point is, plenty of workers in plenty of industries get the shaft.

And what sort of salary did you do that for, give the whole picture? What industry was that in?

[LTDHO]

I wish I got 8 weeks paid leave a year for doing 48hour weeks.

TBH I was not familiar with the dispute ambo/paramedics have, other than if I was to graffiti my work van, I'd lose my job.

Unsure what the pay rate is but I naturally assume it is high based on what you need to see and deal with. I know you can't clockoff at the end of the day. This field should be a role that is inviting for new people so the man power is there in the event of an emergency, the government should back this as they do any other public service.

[Franco Cozzo]

This is the Vic Ambos and what they're doing to raise awareness, this is my local crew:







Other crews around Melbourne:



On a Territory:

























If they don't go out and strike at least they're doing a pretty good job of raising awareness, they've also been out in local communities talking to people on the streets on their time off.

Paramedics and Fire fighters are the only emergency service crew you can trust IMO.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

This is the Vic Ambos and what they're doing to raise awareness, this is my local crew:



If they don't go out and strike at least they're doing a pretty good job of raising awareness, they've also been out in local communities talking to people on the streets on their time off.

Paramedics and Fire fighters are the only emergency service crew you can trust IMO.

Yikes, how the hell do they get away with defacing an Ambulance, imo that is highly unprofessional.

I sympathise with their plight but that is not a good look.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Unsure what the pay rate is but I naturally assume it is high based on what you need to see and deal with. I know you can't clockoff at the end of the day. This field should be a role that is inviting for new people so the man power is there in the event of an emergency, the government should back this as they do any other public service.

Then you clearly do not read my posts as I said what the hourly rate was, less than an enrolled nurse in a nice safe air conditioned hospital. We get extra leave as we work a 24 hour rotating roster with only a 1/3 of the weekends and work a large percentage of public holidays.

The point that annoys me so much is that so many think we are lucky that we get so many holidays yet we have no social life, a very family unfriendly roster and deal with stresses that most people say "I could never do your job".

[b0son]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

And what sort of salary did you do that for, give the whole picture? What industry was that in?

High $40's, mid-2000s. Scientific research.

What is the annual paramedic salary?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Yikes, how the hell do they get away with defacing an Ambulance, imo that is highly unprofessional.

I sympathise with their plight but that is not a good look.

Its either that or you call the ambulance and no one turns up because they all went out on strike.

Pretty good comprimise, imagine if the CFMEU was their union? David Davis the health minister would probably face down on the floor in a pool of his own blood, and they would still go out on strike illegally, fight with police and picket the hospitals lol.

Originally Posted by b0son

High $40's, mid-2000s. Scientific research.

What is the annual paramedic salary?

They're on like $73K or something in Vic I think, its not that much.

http://www.open.edu.au/careers/healt...dics-ambulance

Starting salary: $50,000 P/A
Senior salary: $73,000 P/A
Average salary: $61,000 P/A

So a worksafe inspector gets paid $11K more a year than a senior paramedic.

Being a paramedic seems like the "LV Mechanic" of the emergency services world, all the qualifications with none of the pay or conditions.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Then you clearly do not read my posts as I said what the hourly rate was, less than an enrolled nurse in a nice safe air conditioned hospital. We get extra leave as we work a 24 hour rotating roster with only a 1/3 of the weekends and work a large percentage of public holidays.

The point that annoys me so much is that so many think we are lucky that we get so many holidays yet we have no social life, a very family unfriendly roster and deal with stresses that most people say "I could never do your job".

Hence my original post which you do not like, your choice.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by trublu

Hence my original post which you do not like, your choice.

and something else which has also been mentioned, people only care when it affects them directly.

i hope you never have to experience a situation where the response time is the difference between life and death of someone close to you.

[Dalonian]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its either that or you call the ambulance and no one turns up because they all went out on strike.

Pretty good comprimise, imagine if the CFMEU was their union? David Davis the health minister would probably face down on the floor in a pool of his own blood, and they would still go out on strike illegally, fight with police and picket the hospitals lol.



They're on like $73K or something in Vic I think, its not that much.

http://www.open.edu.au/careers/healt...dics-ambulance

Starting salary: $50,000 P/A
Senior salary: $73,000 P/A
Average salary: $61,000 P/A

So a worksafe inspector gets paid $11K more a year than a senior paramedic.

Being a paramedic seems like the "LV Mechanic" of the emergency services world, all the qualifications with none of the pay or conditions.

A year 3 qualified paramedic is roughly 71000 (so 4 years all up including the grad year which is the hardest year of your life) inclusive of the rolled in rate (as we don't get penalty rates). I think year 5 is $73k and that is the maximum, as it doesn't go up after that. The base rate is $6-7000 less than that, hence why people weigh up whether or not it's worth missing weddings, Christmas, weekends etc. year after year.

And personally I think the writing is a bad look too, but we have nothing else we can do in our campaign. The reason it's allowed is due to it being approved under protected industrial action by Fair Work Australia.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by prydey

and something else which has also been mentioned, people only care when it affects them directly.

I hope you never have to experience a situation where the response time is the difference between life and death of someone close to you.

This is controlled by the government on how well they fund the ambulance service as to the number of vehicles supplied & number of paramedics they employ.

I'm not debating about the short comings of the Ambulance service what I'm saying is if the job is getting too stressful for you to the point of having a breakdown then why stay in a situation where your social life, health or mental state suffers.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

So a worksafe inspector gets paid $11K more a year than a senior paramedic.

It's been the case for a while in Aus that there's more money to be made in regulating an industry than working in said industry... also sums up why everything's being offshored.

I'm surprised there aren't more people making fluoro vests/shirts and clipboards....