GWM Ute..anyone looked at them closely?

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by DMXR6T

I will not buy anything made in China given their petty trade sanctions against Australia and their action in South China sea and other places. Rather go without.

How dare you. You probably have bought some cheap electronic device that was made in China. If you don’t buy a Beijing billy cart you’re a hypocrite.

Ive said many times I would never buy a VW, Audi or Mercedes and no one minds. Say you won’t buy a Chinese car and there’s always someone that says “where were your light bulbs at home made? oh got ya there”

[BENT_8]

Thanks for your comments guys, especially you Fordman1, we bought what we did due to your valued input..lol

We've signed a subject to contract on a 2016 PX2 Hi-rider with 90k's in white with canopy, clearview mirrors plus originals, bonnet protector, slimline window shields, tint, mats, reinforced racks on the canopy to take a rooftop tent, towbar and dual battery system, everything we need for our camping/tow rig.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I think there is a little confusion on the model and trim name.

On the radio it's advertised as a "Ute Cannon".

I thought it was a dodgy translation from a Chinese script where words could be said backwards like in many languages.

Then I watched a drive video where they say the same thing, and introduce it as a Ute Cannon.

I made a comment on the clip and a rep from drive replied agreeing with me that the name is somewhat confusing.

Much like saying I drive a Toyota Ute Hilux.

Its happened before, didn't one of the other Chinese (or Indian??) Brands actually called their Ute a "Pick-up" for its model name.

Looking at the GWM site it seems to confirm that the name of the model is Ute and Cannon is a trim specification.

Confusing..... are there any other brands that actually call their model the generic name for the segment of vehicles??



Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

GWM Ute is like Isuzu Ute, just how they refer to their commercials, Cannon is the base model, then its Cannon L and tops out at Cannon X.
There is a hero version in the pipeline to tackle the Wildtraks of the world which in China is known as an Everest.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

GWM Ute is like Isuzu Ute, just how they refer to their commercials, Cannon is the base model, then its Cannon L and tops out at Cannon X.

There is a hero version in the pipeline to tackle the Wildtraks of the world which in China is known as an Everest.

But even the Isuzu ute has a model name being D-Max.

Seen the GWM "Tank" line??

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

But even the Isuzu ute has a model name being D-Max.

Seen the GWM "Tank" line??

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Yeah, Cannon is the model name, just like the Dmax, then you have a trim level , LS etc. In Dmax, The base Cannon doesnt have a trim code, its just a Cannon like a BF3 wagon didnt have XT badges, the L and X are for differentiating above standard.

[BENT_8]

A few pics of what should be the new chariot..

Dealer is supplying a new dash mat at delivery.




Drivers seat which cops the most use obviously is as new.


Backseat looks unused.


Canopy has crossbars which are reinforced from the tub by the internal supports, i like that as i plan on putting a rooftop tent on it.


Tub liner looks as new, not a scratch on it anywhere, original mirrors in the clearview box.


All it really needs is the old Prodigy brake controller swapped out for a Redarc Tow Pro Elite which i'll have done through connections in the caravan industry and the Wife wants some aftermarket wheels.

They have another Ranger in stock, a 2017 PX2 4x4 XLS dualcab which has a Rhino Rack platform and backbones on the cab roof, im going to put the hard word on the salesman to have it changed over to ours before we'll complete the deal, cant hurt to ask.

[Rico 110s]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Really? I thought he moved to the Sunshine Coast

Yes he did from what I read.

[UTXR8]

bought a new LDV Pro a few months ago...29k drive away with towbar.....25k less than a ranger etc....i am retired so i dont need all the bull**** a tradie may need....got a sdrive throttle controller put on it and is a completly different drive now....would buy another in a hearbeat when the time comes...

4x4...blind spot monitoring...tyre pressure monitoring....6 speed auto...rear camera and sensors...much more....great bang for buck...

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'd be keen to go the Chinese Special, you get new car warranty for the same coin, even though it might be a bit agricultural, its good peace of mind that if it turns to **** that (legally) the dealership will foot the bill.

Do you care about resale at all? If you're going to own it until it dies than maybe its not a bad option.

Be more inclined for LDV T60 though, cause seems like more of them around and parts availability will likely be better.

So you've finally seen the light that is the double cab ute , and the most gutless one of them all

[jpd80]

Has GWM improved their crash worthiness, wasn’t the previous Ute like 0 out of 5 stars?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PooDog

So you've finally seen the light that is the double cab ute , and the most gutless one of them all

Pick the worst one and run with it as the underdog, nah was a case of new car warranty and maybe weighing up new options in the budget

I still wouldn't own a dual cab, I do own a Thailand Special though

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Has GWM improved their crash worthiness, wasn’t the previous Ute like 0 out of 5 stars?

Current one hasnt received its rating yet officially but is suggested as 5 star by many reviews.

I can understand the concern by certain people, like the MG's that are climbing the ladder at a rate of knots so too will the GWM ute once people realise you dont need to spend 60k to get all the fruit.

When i posted this thread i expected the responses i got, a few curious, a few with feedback from friends, a few that wont touch a Chinese product, a few that doubt its ability and the usual suspects with nothing but negativity due to their association with another brand who also bagged the MG, you can taste their fear, lol.

It didnt disappoint.

[Dr Smith]

I think if 5 star crash ratings are achieved (no reason why they cannot) and power levels offered matching Ranger and Hilux then the tide will turn more quickly. Actually I'm surprised they haven't already tried to hit the 150+kw diesel power level to really get stuck into the market leading brands. Maybe the fact the Chinese home market favours petrol has slowed this from occurring.

And lets be very frank...as good as Ranger and Hilux are the products are overpriced. The fact most Japanese brands and Ford charge more is because the market has paid the money. When the Chinese brands offer more for less and if their image of being "inferior" is disproven it will be interesting to see what the market will do.

I wonder if a Chinese built Ford is of lessor quality than a North American built Ford or a EU built Ford? Of course if they all used the same component spec/trim quality level and assembly QC was identical it should make no difference what the "Made in XXXXX" stamp says.

Some of us are old enough to remember where Japanese products, not just cars, sat image wise in their early days.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I think if 5 star crash ratings are achieved (no reason why they cannot) and power levels offered matching Ranger and Hilux then the tide will turn more quickly. Actually I'm surprised they haven't already tried to hit the 150+kw diesel power level to really get stuck into the market leading brands. Maybe the fact the Chinese home market favours petrol has slowed this from occurring.

And lets be very frank...as good as Ranger and Hilux are the products are overpriced. The fact most Japanese brands and Ford charge more is because the market has paid the money. When the Chinese brands offer more for less and if their image of being "inferior" is disproven it will be interesting to see what the market will do.

I wonder if a Chinese built Ford is of lessor quality than a North American built Ford or a EU built Ford? Of course if they all used the same component spec/trim quality level and assembly QC was identical it should make no difference what the "Made in XXXXX" stamp says.

Some of us are old enough to remember where Japanese products, not just cars, sat image wise in their early days.

Agreed, and now they're sending production to the old GM plant in Thailand they will be even less 'Chinese'.
Sure they'll still have componants made in China but so do many mainstream products.

The Chinese will get it right, just like the US defence strategy, they'll throw weight of numbers at it until they succeed and will value market share through lower price point over profit margin to achieve it and the encumbents are worried no matter how brave a face they show outwardly.

The concern for local Ford fans should be how well the next 'Americanised' styled Ranger is received, it could easily be another AU Falcon episode where it is as robust as could be but considered unappealing to look at.
I may be biased with recent developments but i consider the PX2 look to be the sweet spot for Ranger styling which the new one will move well away from.

[MattSAU2XR8]

I can't help wondering if a Korean ute, i.e. Musso might be a better middle ground. Not sure if a little dearer than the Chinese utes but Korea seem to have been building these for years and so although not as flash as a Hilux or Ranger they seem to be fairly reliable, even if resale not as good?

[jpd80]

I might be very wrong here but my view is that the Ute brands with most to fear from GWM are
those that play in the same price zone of GWM, brands that can’t make ground on Hilux or Ranger.
An alternate, low cost Ute that checks all the boxes could draw in those who would normally go buy
Navarra and Tritons but we’ll see….

The one I’m interested in is BYD’s electric Ute that’s arriving in 2022 (probably late in the year),
a BEV Ute is a true point of difference in a sea of diesel powered vehicles and will be a curiosity
for sure but will that give it any sales purchase with fleets wanting to look cleaner and greener?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I might be very wrong here but my view is that the Ute brands with most to fear from GWM are
those that play in the same price zone of GWM, brands that can’t make ground on Hilux or Ranger.

maybe, maybe not...

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...l-engine-84158

Sounds like it might go ok combined with the 9sp auto which will replace ZF equipped GWM products

https://inf.news/en/auto/b9ac6c0e671...560929c40.html

[jstanovic]

These won't threaten the majority of private sales of Hilux and Ranger, no matter how good they are. How many Ranger owners buy them because they look good and have a macho style? How many add accessories/modifications to make them look "tougher"? Those people will never buy a GWM regardless of price/features, and there is a lot of them. Nothing wrong with that, but buying a cheap 4x4 isn't for the vain, you don't buy a GWM to impress your mates.

I personally think they look OK, as do the new SsangYongs.

Fleet sales may be different if all figures add up, including resale.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

maybe, maybe not...

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...l-engine-84158

Sounds like it might go ok combined with the 9sp auto which will replace ZF equipped GWM products

https://inf.news/en/auto/b9ac6c0e671...560929c40.html

Looks very promising, wonder if they'll introduce it in our market.

Interesting they've managed to get VGT turbos working reliably on unleaded engine, no one aside from Porsche had bothered because they have issues with the high EGT generated by unleaded engines in comparison to Diesel.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Looks very promising, wonder if they'll introduce it in our market.

Interesting they've managed to get VGT turbos working reliably on unleaded engine, no one aside from Porsche had bothered because they have issues with the high EGT generated by unleaded engines in comparison to Diesel.

Remains to be seen but it does say the 9sp auto is destined to replace the 8 speed ZF in all GWM products, so as the ute we get features the 8 speed id assume that includes our market.
The engine and 9 speed have been developed together so again it would be fair to assume whatever gets the 9 speed will get the engine, especially if they want to take on Ranger and it arrives with an EB.

Would the liquid intercooler be the key to the VGT turbos as it keeps temps down?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

These won't threaten the majority of private sales of Hilux and Ranger, no matter how good they are. How many Ranger owners buy them because they look good and have a macho style? How many add accessories/modifications to make them look "tougher"? Those people will never buy a GWM regardless of price/features, and there is a lot of them. Nothing wrong with that, but buying a cheap 4x4 isn't for the vain, you don't buy a GWM to impress your mates.

I personally think they look OK, as do the new SsangYongs.

Fleet sales may be different if all figures add up, including resale.

Agreed, not the majority, but when you're a one trick pony as Ford has become here in Australia then any loss of market share is detrimental at dealer level that rely on volume.
I dont think someone buying an XL or XLS is doing so to impress either so a ute that comes in under their price point with features to match an XLT or Wildtrak will be tempting for some.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Agreed, not the majority, but when you're a one trick pony as Ford has become here in Australia then any loss of market share is detrimental at dealer level that rely on volume.
I dont think someone buying an XL or XLS is doing so to impress either so a ute that comes in under their price point with features to match an XLT or Wildtrak will be tempting for some.

Talking about loss of market share.
Talking about dealer sales.
Anyone know what is going on with Sunshine Ford Southport the only Ford dealer on the Gold Coast.
Internet site shows Zero stock of fords available.
This dealer closes thats a population of 600000 on the Gold Coast that dont have a Ford dealer.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by kevino

Talking about loss of market share.
Talking about dealer sales.
Anyone know what is going on with Sunshine Ford Southport the only Ford dealer on the Gold Coast.
Internet site shows Zero stock of fords available.
This dealer closes thats a population of 600000 on the Gold Coast that dont have a Ford dealer.

Says zero used stock too, you can understand no or limited new stock but theres no shortage of used stock as many dealers are buying outright from private sellers.

We tried the car sales instant sell feature with my Wife's ASX to get an idea of what its worth, came back with an offer from Jarvis Ford for what she paid for it over 12 months ago and we're being hassled multiple times a day via email to book a time with them to sell it.
Showed the figure to the dealer we're buying the Ranger from and he bettered it on the spot.

Having said that, any Ford dealer in SA i've been past during my search in recent weeks has had new stock, strange theres none on the GC.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Looks very promising, wonder if they'll introduce it in our market.

IMO, it looks like the Ute equivalent of a Kia Stinger, great potential but I wonder if the basic dynamics of the chassis will be overpowered by the engine’s strong power and torque. I haven’t seen the full package yet so GWM might have me eating my words. I sense that this Ute is a “reimagined Series 2 D-Max”, I mean that in the good sense of a proven but basic design that’s used as a starting point and the new vehicle evolved from there as a brownfield project, saving years by not “reinventing the wheel”.

Interesting they've managed to get VGT turbos working reliably on unleaded engine, no one aside from Porsche had bothered because they have issues with the high EGT generated by unleaded engines in comparison to Diesel.

Most manufacturers discovered that VGT wasn’t essential with TT Vee engines as the two smaller sized turbos could be sized to overcome lag and still give impressive performance.

Most manufacturers found that VGT to be more useful in single turbo applications where the turbo is linked to Inline engines and required to behave like two smaller turbos but in a less complicated package.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kevino

Talking about loss of market share.
Talking about dealer sales.
Anyone know what is going on with Sunshine Ford Southport the only Ford dealer on the Gold Coast.
Internet site shows Zero stock of fords available.
This dealer closes thats a population of 600000 on the Gold Coast that dont have a Ford dealer.

In comparison, Bremer Ford near Ipswich is showing 57 vehicles.

It’s a bad lapse, I just checked and they haven’t bothered advertising anything,
want you to call the dealer and discuss. IMO, relying on orders and walk-ins.

Torque Ford at Burleigh is showing 21

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I think if 5 star crash ratings are achieved (no reason why they cannot) and power levels offered matching Ranger and Hilux then the tide will turn more quickly. Actually I'm surprised they haven't already tried to hit the 150+kw diesel power level to really get stuck into the market leading brands. Maybe the fact the Chinese home market favours petrol has slowed this from occurring.

Perceptions of Australia’s requirements versus what’s been developed for other markets, they’re combating what is the base 135 Kw diesel in Ranger and others…the high series is a TTV6 petrol engine that no one else in the segment offers, if there’s movement in sales because of that, Ford and Toyota will probably respond….

And lets be very frank...as good as Ranger and Hilux are the products are overpriced. The fact most Japanese brands and Ford charge more is because the market has paid the money. When the Chinese brands offer more for less and if their image of being "inferior" is disproven it will be interesting to see what the market will do.

It’s fortunate that a new Ranger is coming, perfect timing I’d say.
There’s a level of refinement in the new Ranger that will be hard to match.

I wonder if a Chinese built Ford is of lessor quality than a North American built Ford or a EU built Ford? Of course if they all used the same component spec/trim quality level and assembly QC was identical it should make no difference what the "Made in XXXXX" stamp says.

The quality of Ford China’s plants generally matches or exceeds those in Europe or North America.

Some of us are old enough to remember where Japanese products, not just cars, sat image wise in their early days.

You don’t have to go back that far, Korean cars were dismissed until they grabbed the entry level market and made it their own. GWM could become the Kia of Utes.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Perceptions of Australia’s requirements versus what’s been developed for other markets, they’re combating what is the base 135 Kw diesel in Ranger and others.

Current base 2.2l is 118kw/365nm isnt it?

I assume the 130kw you refer to is the upcoming 2.0l single turbo in the next gen Ranger.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

These won't threaten the majority of private sales of Hilux and Ranger, no matter how good they are. How many Ranger owners buy them because they look good and have a macho style? How many add accessories/modifications to make them look "tougher"? Those people will never buy a GWM regardless of price/features, and there is a lot of them. Nothing wrong with that, but buying a cheap 4x4 isn't for the vain, you don't buy a GWM to impress your mates.

I personally think they look OK, as do the new SsangYongs.

Fleet sales may be different if all figures add up, including resale.

Bang on I think.. If you look at it, for private sales at least, Hilux people just buy new Hilux's, Ranger owners are the same. Not a chance they would buy anything but a new version of what they already have. 10/15 years ago people where doing the same thing with Commodores and Falcon's... I've got an elderly relative who has bought Hilux's, and only Hilux's, all brand new, all SR5, All white (Or equivalent) since the 80's. He has just taken delivery (well, 4 months or so ago) of his MY21 SR5 Auto.. Which replaced his MY15 SR5 Auto, and so on, so on...

GWM/LDV/etc will sell to those who, quite simply, probably want a Wildtrack Ranger/SR5 Hilux but don't have the $$$ to do it... Its why I see heaps of them, especially GWM Cannon's, around.

Its probably safe to say that GWM arent trying to compete directly with Ford/Toyota and vice versa...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

Its probably safe to say that GWM arent trying to compete directly with Ford/Toyota and vice versa...

Wouldnt it be safer to say GWM arent competing with Wildtrak/SR5 buyers?
Its those that arent cashed up they're after, thats anything below them ie. XL, SR, Workmate, GLX, GLX+, GLXR etc. etc.
Thats a fair chunk of the rest.

Thing is, when as a brand you rely on 4500 sales of Ranger as a whole to remain in the top 5 on the charts, losing a % to new players will be felt.
And before anyone suggests most sales are the high spec, having spent quite a bit of time lately scouring through ute ads, lower spec examples have fair representation and had to fit into those new sales figures at some point in the past and therefore should be part of them moving forward, unless they go elsewhere.

[PG2]

I'm not suggesting for a moment that GWM or LDV are going to take over the market and sell more than Ranger/Hilux.

I do think that they will take some sales from Ranger/Hilux, however, I think that they will also take some sales from Mitsubishi, Isuzu etc as well.

I can see GWM and/or LDV sitting in the bottom half of the top 10 of VFACTS one day in the not to distant future. In terms of ute sales, maybe sitting 4th or 5th closely behind the others in front in terms of numbers.

My opinion is just that though, an opinion. I could very well end up being wrong.