Ford stealer wants another 1½ %

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Kieron

Actually, it's a benefit to you as the vendor. If you don't offer CC facilities, then you don't get the business if I want to pay by CC.

Also, if I come to your company to purchase a widgit and it's $500 + 2% CC and down the road charges $500 with no CC fee for the same widgit, then you lose the sale.

Hey if I offered discount drugs and prostitution would that improve the sales in my gun shop?

Running a business is a lot more difficult than most realise.

9 out of 10 business go splat in the first year.

Of the survivors 9 out of 10 go splat in the next 4 years.

Discounting and absorbing costs will usually ensure that you have huge amounts of customers turn up at your administrator's liquidation sale.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

Cash Neville.. wheres the bloody cash......

in my home town no banks have atm, the only atm is a 3rd party one that charges 2.50 per transaction!! ie no cheaper. also if i get cash on the CC, the bank charges extra for that.(cash advance fee). best to stick to using your own money.

Originally Posted by MYVYSS

.Weird was in Portand Oregon, its illegal to pump your own gas, and they actually ask you for your pin so they can put it in, I told him mate, you can pump it all you like, however I will be putting in the pin number.

i stopped at a petrol station in Goulburn NSW and they actually pump the gas for you (first i've seen it since early 80s). There's no reason gas stations can't use mobile CC machines too (like they have in Taxi's).

Originally Posted by Tranquilized

I charge my customers 2% on any credit card transaction. The banks charge me 1.38%, so yes, I'm making a little extra - a whopping 0.62%. So on a $200 transaction I'll be charged $2.76 by the bank - so $0.20 isn't really going to help is it.

it's only 20c, but how much is that a YEAR you are ripping off customers?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i stopped at a petrol station in Goulburn NSW and they actually pump the gas for you (first i've seen it since early 80s). There's no reason gas stations can't use mobile CC machines too (like they have in Taxi's).

Umm, yes there is......

Mobile CC machines use a mobile phone connection.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by gt.4.me

credit cards are the devil !

Not if you know how to use them to your advantage...

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

it's only 20c, but how much is that a YEAR you are ripping off customers?

Ripping off? Oh please.

Do you eat out much? When was the last time you questioned a $12 breakfast or a $22 steak?

After all, 2 bits of bread, 2 eggs, 1 sausage, 2 rashers of bacon, a tomato.. would only 'cost' bout $3 now wouldn't it...

Those thieves!

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by flappist

Hey if I offered discount drugs and prostitution would that improve the sales in my gun shop?

Running a business is a lot more difficult than most realise.

9 out of 10 business go splat in the first year.

Of the survivors 9 out of 10 go splat in the next 4 years.

Discounting and absorbing costs will usually ensure that you have huge amounts of customers turn up at your administrator's liquidation sale.

I really don't know what your on about in relation to my post mate. I'm just talking about the way a typical consumer works.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Kieron

I really don't know what your on about in relation to my post mate. I'm just talking about the way a typical consumer works.

No you are talking about the way a tightarse consumer works, most people think of value in more than a few dollars and cents.

If price is your only concern then the majority of businesses including all of mine don't actually want you as a customer. You are not worth wasting time and energy assisting you as you do not value it.

Think of it like you getting sacked tomorrow because someone will do your job for less wages regardless of how loyal, hardworking or competent you are.

After all you are NOTHING but a cost that might be reduced by 2% aren't you?

[JACK250]

Most business people don't see cash as an inconvenience, it saves a lot of people tax... Even if illegitimately so it's common

[jixel 78]

Originally Posted by flappist

No you are talking about the way a tightarse consumer works, most people think of value in more than a few dollars and cents.

If price is your only concern then the majority of businesses including all of mine don't actually want you as a customer. You are not worth wasting time and energy assisting you as you do not value it.

Think of it like you getting sacked tomorrow because someone will do your job for less wages regardless of how loyal, hardworking or competent you are.

After all you are NOTHING but a cost that might be reduced by 2% aren't you?

Well said. That would include the `Ford Stealer` in question too now wouldnt it? Mate, if they arent touching his car, what the hell is he doin there? Lookin for a conversation about credit cards? Seriously, the `useless dealer` is absolutely black and blue from all the beatings it cops around here. Its always the dealers fault. And its usually fingered to the knuckles when Mr `I used to be a mechanic` screws his car into the blacktop every day and starts dancin like Peter Garrett when the exploded diff he blew on the dyno isnt `covered`.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by flappist

No you are talking about the way a tightarse consumer works, most people think of value in more than a few dollars and cents.

If price is your only concern then the majority of businesses including all of mine don't actually want you as a customer. You are not worth wasting time and energy assisting you as you do not value it.

Think of it like you getting sacked tomorrow because someone will do your job for less wages regardless of how loyal, hardworking or competent you are.

After all you are NOTHING but a cost that might be reduced by 2% aren't you?

There were two things in my post -

1. If you don't offer CC facilities, your highly likely to lose business.

I'll give you a recent perfect example -
A well known award winning pizza store in the hills of Perth opened a new store closer to the city, he didn't have CC facilities and customers walked away, didn't take him long to introduce CC facilities in order to get those customers.

ie - in order to make more money for himself, he had to offer the facilities. If he then charges customers the cost of this facility, he's effectively charging the customer to make more money for himself.


2. The oncharging of the costs, you'll possibly lose business (this is also a real example) -

If your in the market for a Panasonic 50" plasma and Harvey Norman want $2,000 + 2% CC charge, thats $20 extra. Now if The Good Guys say $2K on CC and less for cash, where would you buy?

I'd suggest most would buy from the Good Guys, therefore the company charging the fee loses business.


BTW, my company deals in tens of thousands per day, 99% of it B2B and the vast majority pay by CC, we suck up the expense as the extra business we get due to it pays for itself. If we didn't offer CC facilities, we will definately lose business.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Kieron

If your in the market for a Panasonic 50" plasma and Harvey Norman want $2,000 + 2% CC charge, thats $20 extra. Now if The Good Guys say $2K on CC and less for cash, where would you buy?

I'd suggest most would buy from the Good Guys, therefore the company charging the fee loses business.

And then you get some stores who use a calculator, and when they charge 2% on $2000, they make it $40 lol

[Kieron]

Oops, thanks bob, teach me to proof read what I dribble hehe

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Kieron

If your in the market for a Panasonic 50" plasma and Harvey Norman want $2,000 + 2% CC charge, thats $20 extra. Now if The Good Guys say $2K on CC and less for cash, where would you buy?

I'd suggest most would buy from the Good Guys, therefore the company charging the fee loses business.

Hmm.

How far are the stores away?
How do I get it home?
Will the sales guy tune it, plug it into my video and show me how to use it?
Do either of the store owners do something for my community?
How much real unbiased advice has the sales staff given me to assist me in deciding to buy this model?

Or am I a television expert with a ute and a couple of large strong friends who lives in between and 50m from both a HN and GG and does not give a rats **** about anything except me and my wallet?

Almost everyone offer CC and everyone's business model is different.

This $10k per day ($3-4M/year) B2B company you talk about?

Your company that you own?

Or the company where you work?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by flappist

Which means that your company has already factored this cost into your sales price or you will be looking for a new job in a short period of time.

Do you give discount for EFTPOS (sav)? Cheques? Cash? Visa Debit?

Or do you rip all of THOSE people off?

As far as huge amounts of cash, did it ever occur to you that the majority of businesses are NOT Woolworths or Coles and have to go to the bank anyway on a fairly regular basis for all of the other deposits etc.

There is a HUGE difference between RUNNING a small business and WORKING IN a small business.

P.S. Cash is not so common now in most businesses. 10-15 years ago when cash was more common and larger cash amounts were banked myself and many of my friends used to carry insurance while transporting cash and valuables, mine was mostly plastic and made in Austria.

Exactly. Well said.
As for your previous post about paying an extra 5% to be paid by your boss; 100% spot on too.

People should realise that the merchant has to pay a fee of anywhere between 1.5% -5% depending on the card. How many banks do you think there are that charge no merchant fee on credit cards?

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by flappist

Hmm.

How far are the stores away?
How do I get it home?
Will the sales guy tune it, plug it into my video and show me how to use it?
Do either of the store owners do something for my community?
How much real unbiased advice has the sales staff given me to assist me in deciding to buy this model?

Or am I a television expert with a ute and a couple of large strong friends who lives in between and 50m from both a HN and GG and does not give a rats **** about anything except me and my wallet?

Almost everyone offer CC and everyone's business model is different.

This $10k per day ($3-4M/year) B2B company you talk about?

Your company that you own?

Or the company where you work?

I take it your in agreeance with #1 then.

You certainly have a point re providing extra service, despite you going to the opposite end of the scale but we are essentially talking about a commodity item here, the advice you receive from these stores is to be taken with a grain of salt too, they have all sorts of incentives from distributors to push a particular product (I know a RetraVision store owner, ex NEC sales rep and a ex Rick Hart TV salesman) and they will also outright ******** you sometimes, the old HDMI cable trick is a classic example.

As a novice, If I were after a gun i'd come to you to learn a little about what I should be buying and i'd happily pay the premium knowing I received service. However, your in a niche, specialised area with products that won't be commoditised by the likes of KMart's/Woolworths/Bunnings etc, all of whom killed off the little guy by selling the same products cheaper.


LTD, your a QANTAS pilot iirc? their customer loyalty FF program affiliating with CC's is a big reason why people use CC's these days. Correct me if i'm wrong, but they also charge a CC fee too, neatly catching those business flyers, hence ultimately their business!


Perhaps both of us have valid points for and against fee on-charging and the answer isn't black and white flappist

[owl]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Banks charge the vendors a percentage of the transaction amount. The reason AMEX cards aren't accepted at a lot of places is because their vendor charges are higher than mastercard and visa.

I charge my customers 2% on any credit card transaction. The banks charge me 1.38%, so yes, I'm making a little extra - a whopping 0.62%. So on a $200 transaction I'll be charged $2.76 by the bank - so $0.20 isn't really going to help is it.

Providing customers with the option of paying by credit card is a service we provide which costs us, so if the customer wishes to use this service they need to pay for it.

i try to avoid dealing with businesses that pass on that charge as i said earlier these cards without doubt give all of us better spending power and that should be enough benefit to the business however in todays world we can never get enough money and its normal to charge as much and as often as possible if people are silly enough to keep coming back and its up to the consumer to shop around, maybe i need run [payable in 1 day] accounts with interest payable after that LOL yea right, like i said before at least you get your money straight away for others it can be like pulling teeth

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by owl

i try to avoid dealing with businesses that pass on that charge as i said earlier these cards without doubt give all of us better spending power and that should be enough benefit to the business however in todays world we can never get enough money and its normal to charge as much and as often as possible if people are silly enough to keep coming back and its up to the consumer to shop around, maybe i need run [payable in 1 day] accounts with interest payable after that LOL yea right, like i said before at least you get your money straight away for others it can be like pulling teeth

It all depends on the type of business. High turn over retail type businesses rarely pass on credit card charges because as you said, the increased sales having card facilities generates makes it worthwhile.

My business is different though. We make fewer, higher amount transactions. We survived just fine for years without any EFTPOS facilities, but decided to offer our customers the OPTION of paying by debt or credit card, and theres the key word - OPTION. When told of the 2% fee many customers just decide to select savings instead of credit. That tells me that the 2% charge not only covers my costs when CC are used, but avoids far higher costs incurred by customers just using credit out of habit or whatever.

[Kieron]

Its not the key word though, your only thinking of existing customers. Potential new customers may well be turned away if you don't offer CC facilities.

The lure of buying now and paying later with a CC means people are far more likely to purchase a product from you, same applies to those, interest free, now payments for 12 months deals, they tempt the consumer to buy,.

[duaned]

I certainly don't by from organisations that charge a credit card surcharge fee on the transaction. I don't hold any dis-regard to these businesses that charge it, it's simply my choice. And secondly, apart from using the banks money, I see benefits from using the card over the cash. One is the ability to prove a transaction in case of a lost receipt etc. Paying cash is a lot harder to trace. Obviously, using a card also prevents the business owner from taking cash and not declaring it as taxable income. Once again, I really don't care a lot for this, but many business owners do the right thing, others obviously do not. As for the card, I have my bank automatically credit the amount owing on the card monthly to avoid any interest from my standard account.
PS, Have I gone slightly off topic here?

[TP351]

Originally Posted by flappist

Hey if I offered discount drugs and prostitution would that improve the sales in my gun shop?

Running a business is a lot more difficult than most realise.

9 out of 10 business go splat in the first year.

Of the survivors 9 out of 10 go splat in the next 4 years.

Discounting and absorbing costs will usually ensure that you have huge amounts of customers turn up at your administrator's liquidation sale.

Mate you've hit the nail right on the head.

I survived the first year but went splat within the 4 years. I owned a franchise that had fixed prices and we were barred from on charging CC fee's. We also had to offer ALL CC's including those cretins AMEX & Diners, who charge a swag in merchant fees.
Obviously, this wasn't the the root cause of going splat, but still a contributor. Another of the Franchisers "clever" ways of attracting new tight **** customers was through discounting. Discounting is a special process where you forgo your profit margin to entice new customers. The only problem there is that these type of customers are rarely loyal and will go to the next special offer somewhere else, next time. It's compounded when they pay for the job with a Amex and you actually lose money for doing the job. Oh, then you have to pay the 12.5% franchise fee. Most people have NO IDEA what it takes to run a small business these days!

IMO, the CC companies should be charging the comsumer for the credit, not double dipping the business owner as well.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Kieron

Its not the key word though, your only thinking of existing customers. Potential new customers may well be turned away if you don't offer CC facilities.

The lure of buying now and paying later with a CC means people are far more likely to purchase a product from you, same applies to those, interest free, now payments for 12 months deals, they tempt the consumer to buy,.

Listen mate, if someone doesn't charge a merchant fee then they have simply already built it into the price. Those who go to these places paying cash are in fact paying extra unbeknownst to them. If someone charges you merchant fees, they haven't built it into the price and need to recover costs. Only an idiot wouldn't charge merchant fees as it simply erodes your margin.

BTW, when you say "your" that means reference of belonging to the person you are referring to i.e.; "your complaint", "your car" etc. When you wish to refer to an opinion or view, those that speak the Queens English shorten down the two words "you are" to "you're". See how that works! Fantastic isn't it. Not to be a spelling nazi but it seriously weakens ones' argument when they cannot add or use correct grammar.

[sarrge2001]

Personally, I don't think grammar and spelling really strengthens OR weakens an opinion or position on a subject.

Unless of course, you're arguing about grammar or spelling.

Then there's using the phrase "...not to be a spelling Nazi...." immediately after you've been one.

In my experience (just to refer to the topic at hand here) in general life, I tend to find that a company is more likely to charge a credit card surcharge when buying over the internet for something that has a limited supplier base (like airline tickets etc). I can't think of the last time I went somewhere and had a surcharge added to the price when buying in person.

Whether or not a percentage to cover credit cards is added to the base price or charged separately is immaterial. Perception is reality - for most, the extra cost only becomes obvious when it's added on at the point of sale.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by sarrge2001

Personally, I don't think grammar and spelling really strengthens OR weakens an opinion or position on a subject.

No it doesn't.

What it MAY do is strengthen english language skills which is not a bad thing really.

[sarrge2001]

Originally Posted by flappist

No it doesn't.

What it MAY do is strengthen english language skills which is not a bad thing really.

Agreed.....

[GORDZ]

i have a debit mastercard. They still charge up to 10% for me to use it. Why? theres no rish, they get their money immediately. Just today I bought a keyboard to tide me over while this ebay seller gets their crap together to actually send me mine, and the bloke said 10% credit card fee! I blew him a raspberry and paid cash.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Banks charge the vendors a percentage of the transaction amount. The reason AMEX cards aren't accepted at a lot of places is because their vendor charges are higher than mastercard and visa.

I charge my customers 2% on any credit card transaction. The banks charge me 1.38%, so yes, I'm making a little extra - a whopping 0.62%. So on a $200 transaction I'll be charged $2.76 by the bank - so $0.20 isn't really going to help is it.

Providing customers with the option of paying by credit card is a service we provide which costs us, so if the customer wishes to use this service they need to pay for it.

One could say YOU are using the service also...
No trips to the bank...