The dangerous side of mobile speed cameras - rant. - Page 2

Auslandau · 27-07-2006, 05:41 PM

Was waiting for the "dont speed and you dont get fined"...had to happen...

Those that say this DONT live in Victoria. If those above beleive they are so absolutley wonderfull drivers that they can CONSTANTLY do under 63km/H in a 60 zone......well you are doing something I havnt been able to do in 30 years of driving. Wait until the cameras are up there hiding behind trees, posts, Rav 4's on the side of the road, behind bridges and get you doing 3km over the limit. Try doing 55 - 60 constantly in a n/a 6 BA with a 3mm tolerence on the speedo dial and tell me you can hold that steady......all day everyday. The minute you creap over 60km's in that absolute split second..........there WILL be a camera and you can send your couple of hundred $$ off to the government............

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crusher · 27-07-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bessxg

There are no such things as speed camera warning signs in WA. Just a bright yellow sign that says, "you've just passed a speed camera", so at least you can expect a letter in the post.

Our community is loving the fact that local police have gone on wages protest and are parking their cars in full view, next to the cameras. That pretty much proves your point about the cameras sole purpose being revenue raising...

Parking right in front of the cameras? Maybe in the city but up in the hills they hid in the bushes and you only see them once youve been flashed or go past and there directly next to you.

And they put the sign right next to it hidden in the bushes as well. I didnt even see the sign today. Saw the camera and as has been mentioned you instinctively jump off the accelerator and on the brakes. I was dead on the limit but and i knew it but i still jumped.

I dont like em. Not at all. Specially when they set up at night. No warning before or after. Just a red flash if you get done. Quite strange and quite annoying.

GCFordChic · 27-07-2006, 05:50 PM

if you are referring to me (auslandau)..

i did not refer to myself as an "absolutely wonderful driver" that "constantly" stays at the speed limit. i said i am vigilent and attentive and count it as one of the many other things you have to do when you drive. They do hide in QLD aswell, at the bottom of hills etc. Read again what i have said, i know if i speed it may be at the time a cop is standing behind a bush and i will get fined and get points, but i use that as a deterrent to be more attentive and law abiding.
Im not perfect, but i dont feel the need to whinge about the government because they fine people for breaking the law.

David See · 27-07-2006, 05:54 PM

auslandau, thank you! I have been driving since 1981 and I'll be buggered if I can keep a car at or under the speed limit constantly. My guess is no one can and I think this is what Police prey on. But then again, if we all drove at 10km/h under the speed limit all the time, this would leave us room for human error, wouldn't it???

I think the other thing we are missing - which is REALLY, REALLY important - is that these cameras have been proven inaccurate.

Again: Shouldn't that immediately render them illegal as peoples' livlihoods are being affected by being fined when they shouldn't have been.

red_hotxr6 · 27-07-2006, 05:57 PM

And if you are refering to me i am 29 years old and have NEVER lost 1 single solitary point on my licence.And I am like every one else i also have to be aware of every thing that is going on around me at all times.

:

GCFordChic · 27-07-2006, 05:59 PM

unless its 100% accurate 100% of the time you want to render it illegal. You are not 100% accurate in keeping to the speed limit, should it be illegal for you to drive?! lol

Nah, seriously, it isnt illegal to have them because a few are proven inaccurate.

David See · 27-07-2006, 05:59 PM

GCFORDCHIC, what about when the Government uses faulty equipment to catch and fine you?

I am not having a whinge, I am merely stating what obviously a lot of people feel: that they are being persecuted and "ripped off" as we are so reliant on cars. We are sitting ducks.

By the way, I don't hate cops - I have the utmost respect for the respectable ones. Additionally, I have not been fined recently by a speed camera. After seeing a speed camera car hiding in Newcastle the other day I had had enough. Hence this rant.

David See · 27-07-2006, 06:01 PM

GCFordChic:

Hang on a minute:

You are condoning people being fined and losing points - with suspect equipment.

That's weird!

GCFordChic · 27-07-2006, 06:05 PM

what is it you are actually asking?

The way i see it, this is a whinge. But people are entitled to a whinge, oh sorry, a "rant". Im not that reliant on the car, i walk to work, bus it to uni (parking sucks, bugger taking the car) and walk the majority of other places, use the car on the weekends. If i am lazy and not taking notice of the speed, realise im doing 75 in a 70 zone, realise i got 'done' and get a notice in the mail 2 weeks later ill live with it coz i broke the law. the law is there for the safe governance of society, i prefer a fine and a few points rather than police not enforcing the law at all.

GCFordChic · 27-07-2006, 06:09 PM

in reference to the comment suggesting i approve of inconsistent and innacurate enforcement of the law, thats untrue, you are interpreting what i have said in your own way in order to serve your attempt to prove me wrong.

If you buy a car, was it made on Monday, Friday or another day of the week. Every batch has the odd dud in it, majority are ok, what are we meant to pull all cars off the market when a few are found to have a fault? what about the different brands?

Auslandau · 27-07-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCFordChic

if you are referring to me (auslandau)..

Yes I was referering to you ...in a nice way

:

If you havnt driven around Vic for a while.......and Perth for that mater which I also do, Comparing a policman with a radar and picking up 'speeding' motorists who they beleive warrant being pulled over .....or a camera that will take a photo of you in that split second you venture 3 kms over the limit set by god knows who........Geelong road for those who knows it, best & newest Road in Australia with no less that 5 'UNMARKED' cameras in 1/2 hour space......It is revenue raising to the max and NOTHING to do with road safety.

By the way....'touch wood' I do still have all my points and regard my self as.....NOT law abiding as such BUT just plain and simple lucky!!!!!!

Anyways this is a topic that will always pop up here and will only be getting worst as more relise how they are getting screwed...............

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blueoval · 27-07-2006, 09:49 PM

I spoke to a speed camera operator sometime last year about his job, and said that if his presence on the road caused people to slow down, then he felt he was doing his job. He was all for camera awareness interestingly found it good to see other road users 'flashing' their headlights warning on coming road users so that they dont get fined.

My point being, having a mobile camera or police presence will mostly make people aware of their speed instead of them being oblivious and risking a possible accident scenario. What is the point of getting flashed for cash after your dead in a car accident? Your just another statistic. Hiding in the bushes or behind a bus shelter to 'catch' people out will only make people irrate and give people reason for more verbal abuse. If the authorities send the right kind of message to the public buy being 'present' during their time, then they are and have been doing their job. i.e. saving lives. Its not justice hiding. Thats pure revenue raising. Just my 2c

**Peuty** · 27-07-2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David See

And that's not me breaking the law, that is me not being informed by those who enforce the laws.

I'm sorry, that is the most ridiculious thing I have ever heard.

Since when is it the law enforcement agencies job to inform you of the speed limit?

Anyhooo, I don't totally disagree with you, speed cameras are a rort.

MITCHAY · 27-07-2006, 10:02 PM

Personally I don't see how they help at all. Maybe if our roads were improved because of the revenue they bring in, then I could see a purpose. We have a red light camera at the intersection at my work and I swear there is more accidents because of it.

In the ACT I don't see how mobile speed cameras work either. Motorists slow down and once they pass it they speed up again. These sites are published on the net and I know almost every spot where they have these things on the roads I frequent.

I reckon speed limits are delibrately under rated than what one could deem safe purely for the fact that the majority won't obey it, and that's how they catch people out. The ACT has plently of roads that upping the limit 10 or 20km/h would be of benefit but then would not bring in much revenue.

But I suppose wishing for the government to think with their brain rather than revenue in mind is a big ask.

FLYXR6 · 27-07-2006, 10:10 PM

I knew a guy who used to go around and find the unmarked camera cars on the road and steal the valve bodies out of the tyres. usually the only way to fix it is replace all four tyres or tow the vehicle (which usually happened). He had to stop as they started getting people to stay with the vehicle.

clontarf_x · 27-07-2006, 11:37 PM

Dear Blueoval

Just wanted to give you two thumbs up for that post. It's entirely true and in one way or another has been mentioned many times on similar threads. If the operators prescence is slowing people down then they are doing their job. All it takes is for a cop car/marked camera operator to be parked visibly on the side of the road and voila, effect is instant.

Hence why I also like the highly visible cameras in some states. You would have to be purely stupid to speed past something that obviously marked out.

I love it when police cars are parked on the side of the roads. We need more of that. Speed cameras dont save lives, police do...

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

I spoke to a speed camera operator sometime last year about his job, and said that if his presence on the road caused people to slow down, then he felt he was doing his job. He was all for camera awareness interestingly found it good to see other road users 'flashing' their headlights warning on coming road users so that they dont get fined.

My point being, having a mobile camera or police presence will mostly make people aware of their speed instead of them being oblivious and risking a possible accident scenario. What is the point of getting flashed for cash after your dead in a car accident? Your just another statistic. Hiding in the bushes or behind a bus shelter to 'catch' people out will only make people irrate and give people reason for more verbal abuse. If the authorities send the right kind of message to the public buy being 'present' during their time, then they are and have been doing their job. i.e. saving lives. Its not justice hiding. Thats pure revenue raising. Just my 2c

coolcanberra · 28-07-2006, 12:55 AM

On Road death fatalities, it IS going up. Figure in safer cars, bigger cars, airbags abs etc, (lowering of DUI) speeding has little to do with it. People being dead tired, working their butts off to make ends meet, is, or the human carnage of injury associated with tollroad yield enhancements.

As for the points, and state based extortion after the statute of limitations for debt has passed, someone needs to mount a natural justice case. Once the issuer(s) is personally sued, and found guilty of being an accessory to extortion, they should have trouble holding down any job. Hopefully an American, thanks to the FTA, will have it heard and ruled in California.

In the meantime, vote wisely at all levels, and that also means voting down pay increases for the bloodsuckers.

Auslandau · 28-07-2006, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYXR6

I knew a guy who used to go around and find the unmarked camera cars on the road and steal the valve bodies out of the tyres. usually the only way to fix it is replace all four tyres or tow the vehicle (which usually happened). He had to stop as they started getting people to stay with the vehicle.

Camera cars have always had to be manned. I cant see how he could do this really.

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gbright · 28-07-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

Camera cars have always had to be manned. I cant see how he could do this really.

be sneaky i watched a guy once steal the number plates off the back of a camera car with the guy sitting in it dont know what he did with them but i assume he was just going to fly by with them on his car a few times

Keepleft · 28-07-2006, 12:08 PM

It's a default 50km/h zone, so represents the legal maximum allowed (and for today is camera enforced:-)

40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60km/h.

However, what is the 'safe speed'??

promina · 28-07-2006, 12:32 PM

i am 100 percent for speed cameras. I think there should be more. government making money out of people breaking the law.. thats a good thing. the money is recirculated back into the community somehow.

i think the fatal road stats are not the best indicator. the roads get congested more and more each year, and the roads are losing quality fast, imho.

the suggestion of patrolling police cars with cameras has its advantages of the visual deterrent... but honestly, do you think there could ever be enough police cars on the road to put a down trend on the fatality rate ? one thing is sure though, if that were the case, they would need *allot* of revenue.

im not sure how many of you own police scanners (i think QLD`ers are the only ones that can listen now) but you must agree, 90 percent of the time police are too busy going to jobs, to pull over cars at random and would more than likely be forced to ignore the speedee ( :P ) to go to a job.

speed cameras at the bottoms of hills... yeh. thats not cool fair enough... though cars come fitted with brakes that are simple to operate.

i have lost my license because of a speed camera, and i have no problem with that, because i broke the law... its no hidden secret that breaking the law comes with consequences.

i think its fair to point out that i plan to join the police in 3 years time :P

blueoval · 28-07-2006, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clontarf_x

Dear Blueoval

Just wanted to give you two thumbs up for that post. It's entirely true and in one way or another has been mentioned many times on similar threads. If the operators prescence is slowing people down then they are doing their job. All it takes is for a cop car/marked camera operator to be parked visibly on the side of the road and voila, effect is instant.

Hence why I also like the highly visible cameras in some states. You would have to be purely stupid to speed past something that obviously marked out.

I love it when police cars are parked on the side of the roads. We need more of that. Speed cameras dont save lives, police do...

No problems mate.

I personally am a proactive person. I would rather a real solution to the problem than an excuse. Common sense on both sides is the key, but sadly its less and less prevalent. We all need to take responsibility for our own actions.

Ringo · 28-07-2006, 12:43 PM

I am just plain angry at the Bracks Victorian Government selective attitude to road safety.

Why is it that:

In Victoria they have bright yellow Transport Ops Cars to highlight the Police presence on our roads yet make speed camera less obvious?

That you can legally buy a set of cheap nasty tyres that will extended your stopping distance from 60kph by 10 metres+ but every K over is still a killer?

That fixed speed cameras are on dead straight pieces of freeway and not in the suburbs?

That Victoria has not implemented an annual roadworthy requirement like NSW if its all about safety and saving lives? How many times have you looked the tyres on the car next to you and they are bald?

That Governments (State & Federal) got together and made manufacturers comply with a safety standard like they do with emissions laws?

That the money collected from fines is not put back into improving the road network? Instead we get toll ways because the State Government 'can't afford' to build the road in the first place.

I love Victoria but its starting to feel like a facist dictatorship is in Government when speeding alone is singled out for persercution under the heading of 'saving lives and road safety' but the blinkers go on when its come to doing anything else.

merlin · 28-07-2006, 12:44 PM

The only thing I have against the camera's is their tolerance level - up to 10km/h you should recieve no fine or loss of points. Over that then fair enough. The 3km/h level in Victoria is ridiculous. Cameras have no discretion!

PS - There should be more police patrolling the roads and enforcing the other rules, such as giving way, keeping left, not indicating, crossing unbroken white lines ect.

PPS - The whole "I never speed, I am a perfect driver, give me a brownie badge, the world is made of rainbows brigade", REALLY annoy me as no one is that perfect - but you are entitled to your opinion...

PPPS - If you drive the M2 motorway - KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING - There is a motorcycle cop whose sole job it is to ride up and down the entire motorway all day long enforcing this rule. I witnessed him pull over a blue AU Fairmont yesterday arvo. I had a chat to the motorcycle cop later on at a servo and he told me this, so be warned.

LTDHO · 28-07-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by promina

i am 100 percent for speed cameras. I think there should be more. government making money out of people breaking the law.. thats a good thing. the money is recirculated back into the community somehow.

i think the fatal road stats are not the best indicator. the roads get congested more and more each year, and the roads are losing quality fast, imho.

the suggestion of patrolling police cars with cameras has its advantages of the visual deterrent... but honestly, do you think there could ever be enough police cars on the road to put a down trend on the fatality rate ? one thing is sure though, if that were the case, they would need *allot* of revenue.

im not sure how many of you own police scanners (i think QLD`ers are the only ones that can listen now) but you must agree, 90 percent of the time police are too busy going to jobs, to pull over cars at random and would more than likely be forced to ignore the speedee ( :P ) to go to a job.

speed cameras at the bottoms of hills... yeh. thats not cool fair enough... though cars come fitted with brakes that are simple to operate.

i have lost my license because of a speed camera, and i have no problem with that, because i broke the law... its no hidden secret that breaking the law comes with consequences.

i think its fair to point out that i plan to join the police in 3 years time :P

Unfortunately speed cameras do more harm than good (excluding making money) and should be removed completely from Australian roads.

Fact: Speed it only a contributing factor to road fatality. However the other contributing factors are not enforced as highly due to their expence. So there is a small price for Australian lives.

When heading down a road where there is a speed camera. Every one brakes. "That's good" People say. Well no. Not when traffic was moving at or under the posted limit. This then cause rear to front crashes, which costs the public money. All for nothing. All because they don't want to get stung by the dreaded camera.

It is yet to be shown to me the good that they create on Australian roads.

blueoval · 28-07-2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Unfortunately speed cameras do more harm than good (excluding making money) and should be removed completely from Australian roads.

Fact: Speed it only a contributing factor to road fatality. However the other contributing factors are not enforced as highly due to their expence. So there is a small price for Australian lives.

When heading down a road where there is a speed camera. Every one brakes. "That's good" People say. Well no. Not when traffic was moving at or under the posted limit. This then cause rear to front crashes, which costs the public money. All for nothing. All because they don't want to get stung by the dreaded camera.

It is yet to be shown to me the good that they create on Australian roads.

That will only cause rear end crashes if:

a) you know your speeding and you panic
b) your paranoid about speed cameras
c) your not attentive to your personal driving
d) too busy on the phone i.e. calls or texting

I have seen more rear end crashes based on in attentive driving (putting cd's in cd player, punishing kids in back seat etc.) & based on mucking around with mobile phones (calls & texting) while driving than seeing a marked cop car/parked camera car on the side of the road you could see from 100m away.

I find most on coming cars 'flash' their lights at you to warn you of a camera car well in advance so that you are aware. If I could add up the ammount of cash saved by these citizens doing this, I know I have saved hundreds if not thousands, just by taking the foot off the accelerator for a few seconds. NOT applying on the brakes.

Everything else u mention i agree with.

chevypower · 28-07-2006, 01:45 PM

even if i am going the speed limit, if i see a camera i will slam on my brakes cos thats quicker than assessing whether or not I am speeding then deciding whether or not to slow down, so even if you are obeying the law it can cause you to jam the brakes on. Drivers in the tunnel are definately watching their speedo, not the road - having said that, maybe the best way is to leave the cameras but bring back a 10% tolerance

blueoval · 28-07-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

even if i am going the speed limit, if i see a camera i will slam on my brakes cos thats quicker than assessing whether or not I am speeding then deciding whether or not to slow down, so even if you are obeying the law it can cause you to jam the brakes on. Drivers in the tunnel are definately watching their speedo, not the road - having said that, maybe the best way is to leave the cameras but bring back a 10% tolerance

Please dont take this the wrong way, but do you feel slamming on the brakes as you say is the safest method for not just yourself but for other road users directly behind you?

kyro_02 · 28-07-2006, 02:01 PM

im paranoid 'bout speed cameras i can only accumilate 5 points ffs! if i had a full license hell i'd do the speed limit... my speedo is out anyway, so i go even slower .. sometimes i think im goin too fast even when my speedo says im doin 10k's under .

if end up doin say.. 100kmph in 100 zone... i'd get to 90 ZONE and slam on my brakes until i get to 85 lol..

chevypower · 28-07-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

Please dont take this the wrong way, but do you feel slamming on the brakes as you say is the safest method for not just yourself but for other road users directly behind you?

i was exaggerating a little bit, but you know what i mean... i dont "slam" them on - but i admit i do know if someone is directly behind me, and if not i do slow down very quickly - i wouldnt do it at the point where i cause the person behind me to run up close to me