Stupid traffic fines

[EgoFG]

Ah ... Soap Box where are you ?

But Here is a general rant on Traffic Law Enforcement

I believe that while speed makes accidents worse, it is rarely the cause (If ever!). Similarly, the wearing of seatbelts will not stop road accidents. I am not proposing that we drive too fast without our seatbelts, rather if that is what law enforcment is focussing on, then we are admitting defeat, shutting the gate after the proverbial horse, rather than trying to avoid accidents.

I think the police law enforcment should focus on areas that will force the driver to be a better driver.

There are two main problems that if overcome would address many of our road accident causes
General driver innattention.
Drivers being inconsiderate.

1) Innattention:
A well publicised problem is mobile phone usage - this is an enforcable law - well worthwhile as a target of law enforcement campaigns.
A better known problem also fits into this category - Drink Driving - QED.
But there are many other problems that also cause innattention. Children, Animals, Smoking, Intense conversation or thought, eating or drinking, emotional stress, stupidity, music, radio ...

Hmmm ... we can make some laws, and enforce them as we identify them, but this is a complex area, I hope the Second point turns out better, or we will have to have more speed cameras, and possibly rubber tyres around our cars to fix the problem

2) Inconsiderate:
We already have many rarely enfored rules, that if followed would force drivers to be aware of and have consideration for other drivers.

Keep left unless overtaking. This promotes free flowing traffic, decreases stress. This rule should be enforced, and the application of the law should start at 70kmph rather than 90 (above 80). If only there could be a law against driving 10k under the speed limit on a single lane road, and then 10k over when the overtaking lane begins !

Propper use of indicators. Indicators are, by there very existance, an indication that consideration is important, we should be aware of other drivers and tell them what we are intending to do (notice I did not say "what we are doing"). If this were policed properly there would likely be a revenue not unlike that of the speeding revenue. How often have you been at a roundabout, and waited for a car to come past, only to find he exitted earlier without an indication - a driver blissfully unaware that others are also using the road. Not using indicators, not only causes accidents, but also contributes to congestion, and stress.

Not Tailgating. An easily enforcable law, and an extremely inconsiderate action. A better overtaking move can be peformed, more quickly and with less stress from a little further back. If you are not planning to overtake drop further back still, someone may then be able to overtake you safely, then the car in front of you. Do not assume that people have no right to overtake you - you may have missed seeing a speed limit increase.

If travelling at the same speed as another car, drive in such a manner as to allow faster traffic to pass, sufficiently ahead or behind, whether in the same lane or another. Do not assume that people have no right to overtake you - You may have an innacurate speedometer. If we are in the other drivers blind spot, he may be less aware of our prescence, we should drive in a manner that other cars have no doublts about where we are, and what our intentions are. Would need a new law here, but it would be enforcable, and give good revenue - at least until we become better drivers.

Inappropriate use of Lights. If visibility is limited turn your headlights on ! Parking lights are for parking when visibility is limited. Driving in trafic with more than your lowbeam headlights on is distracting to other drivers, be considerate. If the law were changed to make using fog lights in traffic illegal there would be less accidents - think about it: less glare, less stress, better visibility - I do not know about you, but I want oncoming cars to see me, AND the road clearly !

Indecisive driving. There are some laws to enforce decisive driving. But to put it simply - drive in a predictable manner, do not leave other drivers guessing what you might be up to.


I could probably Keep going for days, but to put it simply

BEFORE we make new road rules,
BEFORE we restrict driving to the point that it is an innefective means of transport

LET'S enforce the laws that that will make us better drivers !


Where is the step ladder I used to get up on this soap box ... I want to get down before I hurt myself

[RG]

I got done for 54 in a 50 zone at 11.30 at night. Very dangerous act it was...

[Lightning Strike GT]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Ah ... Soap Box where are you ?

But Here is a general rant on Traffic Law Enforcement

I believe that while speed makes accidents worse, it is rarely the cause (If ever!). Similarly, the wearing of seatbelts will not stop road accidents. I am not proposing that we drive too fast without our seatbelts, rather if that is what law enforcment is focussing on, then we are admitting defeat, shutting the gate after the proverbial horse, rather than trying to avoid accidents.

I think the police law enforcment should focus on areas that will force the driver to be a better driver.

There are two main problems that if overcome would address many of our road accident causes
General driver innattention.
Drivers being inconsiderate.

1) Innattention:
A well publicised problem is mobile phone usage - this is an enforcable law - well worthwhile as a target of law enforcement campaigns.
A better known problem also fits into this category - Drink Driving - QED.
But there are many other problems that also cause innattention. Children, Animals, Smoking, Intense conversation or thought, eating or drinking, emotional stress, stupidity, music, radio ...

Hmmm ... we can make some laws, and enforce them as we identify them, but this is a complex area, I hope the Second point turns out better, or we will have to have more speed cameras, and possibly rubber tyres around our cars to fix the problem

2) Inconsiderate:
We already have many rarely enfored rules, that if followed would force drivers to be aware of and have consideration for other drivers.

Keep left unless overtaking. This promotes free flowing traffic, decreases stress. This rule should be enforced, and the application of the law should start at 70kmph rather than 90 (above 80). If only there could be a law against driving 10k under the speed limit on a single lane road, and then 10k over when the overtaking lane begins !

Propper use of indicators. Indicators are, by there very existance, an indication that consideration is important, we should be aware of other drivers and tell them what we are intending to do (notice I did not say "what we are doing"). If this were policed properly there would likely be a revenue not unlike that of the speeding revenue. How often have you been at a roundabout, and waited for a car to come past, only to find he exitted earlier without an indication - a driver blissfully unaware that others are also using the road. Not using indicators, not only causes accidents, but also contributes to congestion, and stress.

Not Tailgating. An easily enforcable law, and an extremely inconsiderate action. A better overtaking move can be peformed, more quickly and with less stress from a little further back. If you are not planning to overtake drop further back still, someone may then be able to overtake you safely, then the car in front of you. Do not assume that people have no right to overtake you - you may have missed seeing a speed limit increase.

If travelling at the same speed as another car, drive in such a manner as to allow faster traffic to pass, sufficiently ahead or behind, whether in the same lane or another. Do not assume that people have no right to overtake you - You may have an innacurate speedometer. If we are in the other drivers blind spot, he may be less aware of our prescence, we should drive in a manner that other cars have no doublts about where we are, and what our intentions are. Would need a new law here, but it would be enforcable, and give good revenue - at least until we become better drivers.

Inappropriate use of Lights. If visibility is limited turn your headlights on ! Parking lights are for parking when visibility is limited. Driving in trafic with more than your lowbeam headlights on is distracting to other drivers, be considerate. If the law were changed to make using fog lights in traffic illegal there would be less accidents - think about it: less glare, less stress, better visibility - I do not know about you, but I want oncoming cars to see me, AND the road clearly !

Indecisive driving. There are some laws to enforce decisive driving. But to put it simply - drive in a predictable manner, do not leave other drivers guessing what you might be up to.


I could probably Keep going for days, but to put it simply

BEFORE we make new road rules,
BEFORE we restrict driving to the point that it is an innefective means of transport

LET'S enforce the laws that that will make us better drivers !


Where is the step ladder I used to get up on this soap box ... I want to get down before I hurt myself

All valid and 100% enforcable but they wont and 99% of accidents can be avoided with a little common sense and common courtesy

[Dezza]

I totally agree, EgoFG. Lack of courtesy and not paying attention are the main causes of accidents, not speed. The only time speed is a major factor is driving at ridiculous speeds in the wrong conditions. For example. driving 120 in a 60 zone is stupidity, but 70 in a 60 zone isn't. That's my opinion. It doesn't mean I speed though.

[Keepleft]

EgoFG wrote; (Snipped agreed)

Inappropriate use of Lights.
If visibility is limited turn your headlights on! Parking lights are for parking when visibility is limited. Driving in traffic with more than your lowbeam headlights on is distracting to other drivers, be considerate. If the law were changed to make using fog lights in traffic illegal there would be less accidents - think about it: less glare, less stress, better visibility - I do not know about you, but I want oncoming cars to see me, AND the road clearly!

I would expect ADR13, Part 8.5.1 to be recinded in time. This would mandate the rear fog lamp, in line with the world harmonisation effort. Enforcement is then a matter for police (summary roadside execution:-), tuition - a matter for the handbooks/training.

Australian Road Rule 217 update - effective mid-late 2008 *in your location*;

217 Using fog lights
(1) The driver of a vehicle fitted with front fog lights or rear fog
lights must not operate the fog light unless the driver is
driving in fog or other hazardous weather conditions causing
reduced visibility.
Offence provision.
(2) In this rule:
front fog light means a light (other than a headlight) fitted
to the front of a vehicle to improve illumination of the road
in fog, snowfall, heavy rain or dust clouds.
rear fog light means a light (other than a brake light, a tail
light, a number plate light or a reversing light) fitted to the
rear of a vehicle to make the vehicle more easily visible
from the rear in fog, snowfall, heavy rain or dust clouds.

Notes in relation to your other comments;
"Parking lights" used alone under 'hazardous weather conditions' is an offence at Rule 215. This stipulates that low-beam must be used, (per 218 impact);

(1) A driver must not drive at night, or in hazardous weather
conditions causing reduced visibility unless:
(a) the headlights, tail lights and number plate light fitted
to the driver’s vehicle are operating effectively and are
clearly visible; and
(b) if the vehicle is fitted with clearance lights or side
marker lights — those lights are operating effectively
and are clearly visible.

(2) Allows the use of park lights under those conditions when 'parked'.

At rule 215 (3) - a driver can drive with just the park lights AND front fog lamps on. This therefore is draft tuition that will be included on the matter in a driver manual in *one of the states*;-

"Front fog lights must only be used under hazardous weather conditions with primarily a vehicles low-beam headlights. In severe weather conditions, it can be beneficial to to switch off the low-beam headlights and drive with only the front fog lamps and the vehicles parking/sidelights on- at reduced speeds, this in turn reduces overall glare and allows your front indicators to be seen more effectively by other traffic, and allows you to better see the edges of the road.

RULE 219 prohibits the display of *any* dazzling light. Enforcement can rely on this rule, or contraventions against NVS (Nat Vehicle Standards)-hence 'defects'.

[Mechan1k]

Thank goodness that someone mentioned parking/position lights for their proper use ... they are there to show other traffic (especially at night) ... the position of a vehicle "parked/stationery" off the side of the road ... when visibility is poor.

The amount of people that drive with position lights on when dark is amazing ... a) I have no idea how they can see too well ... and b) it's not the best seeing them either (especially when foggy).

[TwistedEL]

Originally Posted by Dezza!

I totally agree, EgoFG. Lack of courtesy and not paying attention are the main causes of accidents, not speed. The only time speed is a major factor is driving at ridiculous speeds in the wrong conditions. For example. driving 120 in a 60 zone is stupidity, but 70 in a 60 zone isn't. That's my opinion. It doesn't mean I speed though.

Driving at 70 in a 60 zone can certainly be stupid. Driving at 60 in a 60 zone can be stupid. It all comes down to the car you are driving, how experienced the driver is, traffic density, weather conditions, road conditions, and of course the others around you. Just because the relevant authority decided to slap a 60 sign up does not mean that 60 is safe at all times, nor does it mean that 80 is unsafe.

The bottom line is you drive to the conditions AND you follow the rules of the road.

Anyway, this thread was about stupid fines not what causes accidents

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by TwistedEL

Driving at 70 in a 60 zone can certainly be stupid. Driving at 60 in a 60 zone can be stupid. It all comes down to the car you are driving, how experienced the driver is, traffic density, weather conditions, road conditions, and of course the others around you. Just because the relevant authority decided to slap a 60 sign up does not mean that 60 is safe at all times, nor does it mean that 80 is unsafe.

The bottom line is you drive to the conditions AND you follow the rules of the road.

Anyway, this thread was about stupid fines not what causes accidents

True. It's a case of driving to the conditions. I was mainly referring to clear skies, no rain, back roads with little or no traffic.