Lumbar Cortisone Injections…

[Citroënbender]

I’m very conscious of that re-injury risk, particularly because there’s nobody who can really step in if I’m laid up badly.

Can’t believe how chaotic the imaging place is, though. Would not be surprised if they’ve managed to book me in for the wrong procedure. Guess I’ll know if they start slopping K-Y on my stomach.

[HIPO]

My Mrs has had this procedure several x for some of her probs & generally gets good long term relief....sorry meant to mention earlier, but got carried away with the meds.

I had this about 25yrs back into the facet joint area. They used imaging to place it correctly.... didnt really do much.

[prydey]

This is slightly off topic, or a tangent...

There was a series on Disney+ last year (not sure if it was exclusive or available elsewhere) called Dope Sick. It's about the Oxycodone epidemic in the states and the pharmaceutical company supposedly behind it. Admittedly it is no doubt dramatised to make better viewing but it's a great series.

I'm not anti 'big pharma' but if it's portrayed accurately then it was quite an eye opener for me. Well worth watching I thought.

[Citroënbender]

I found oxycodone the “smoothest” of the opiates I’ve taken. Gentlest onset, most even control of pain through the active period. If this is a common experience it’s easy to see how it would trap people. I’m fortunate that my situation is seeing the pain diminish steadily ATM.

[73 4V XB]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I’m very conscious of that re-injury risk, particularly because there’s nobody who can really step in if I’m laid up badly.

Can’t believe how chaotic the imaging place is, though. Would not be surprised if they’ve managed to book me in for the wrong procedure. Guess I’ll know if they start slopping K-Y on my stomach.

You’ll be laying face down so if the K-Y comes out I’d be very concerned

I had the injections 4-5 years ago for a collapsed disk. I’d be standing there and all of a sudden get a strong, sharp, stabbing pain from the area. It was an ultrasound guided injection with 2 local injections for the pain, 6 needles in total.
I won’t lie, yes it was painful but the benefits far out weight the negatives. Fortunately for me they worked well. I’ve had injections in other parts that have had no results at all..
Hope it works out well for you.

[Citroënbender]

Done, can already sense less of the pain and a return to normal sensation. The “wear and tear” of bracing against pain, lost sleep and medicated vagueness hopefully will now reduce.

It’s a bit unsettling to consider this is just a masking of the problem. I’m keen to shave off about 15-20kg, and reluctantly considering a bike. Have just been “on” too many hours in recent years and it’s cumulatively what has put me in this situation now.

What was nice about the procedure was the nurse, a Mediterranean woman of similar age to myself. Genuinely kind, reassuring and personable; two years ago it would have all been conducted through a half-metre barrier of gloves, masks, sanitiser and screens - and customers wouldn’t benefit the same.

[jaydee]

Good job CB, hope it helps you.
Apart from migraines I've been lucky not to have continuous debilitating pain.
Certainly folks up your life style.

[hawkgirl]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Done, can already sense less of the pain and a return to normal sensation. The “wear and tear” of bracing against pain, lost sleep and medicated vagueness hopefully will now reduce.

I have had nerve blocks for over 20 years, every 3 months, nerve damage from T12 to L4 from an accident.

Try not to do too much in the first few days - part of the relief you feel is due to the local anaesthetic, the cortisone needs a bit of time to start reducing your inflammation.

I have all the drugs except Lyrica but rarely take them. For me, I am sensitive to opiates so a little goes a long way. Lyrica doesn't like me much

The effectiveness of the injections really depends on your injury I.e, neural, disc, bony.

Try to see a pain management specialist for your issue, rather than the G.P.

My original specialist retired recently and I now see the other practice director. Currently we are using a different procedure other than blocks as long term cortisone use is not good for you.
Last year I had 3 RF ablations done under general anaesthetic. There has been some improvement.

Currently on my last week of 6 weeks enforced rest after a different sort of ablation equivalent to fusion. So bored!

Good luck with it

[mad2]

ALL the best with it Mr. Bender

[Citroënbender]

I can feel the anaesthesia part wearing off, that’s OK with me. The detachment it added was a bit unsettling. Right now I’m on 15mg codeine for nights, the rest is just paracetamol and ibuprofen - discomfort is pretty minimal.

Saturday is normally my day off from the world, it should have spliced well into the procedure yesterday but my mate (Dover’s owner) called urgently this afternoon as it had dropped the nearside lower arm balljoint driving in the city. So I didn’t get the fully restful day hoped for, instead shuffling cars to squeeze another one into the streetfront as road service brought me a Territory with broken fetlock.

Have been informally referred to a physio, not close by but a fussy friend rated them well. It’s all new ground to me, I’d like to work physically into my mid-seventies and unless I get a good argument to change this idea, it means a 20+ year health strategy has to start now. The GP I’ve seen twice for this current issue has been a bit offhand, I’ll give him one more crack - caught him by surprise on the way out last time by wishing him a good Orthodox Christmas (he’s Egyptian Coptic and keeps a crucifix at the front centre of his desk) so that might have “un-boganed” me in his eyes. If he flops, I’ll go back to the woman GP who definitely gets what pain can be, and seek a referral from there as required.

Six weeks of enforced rest would send me bonkers. Hats off to anyone who can do that without excessive alcohol.

The knock-on casualty of all this has been my teeth, they’ve given me their final warning after being clenched relentlessly. Definitely stuff for another thread.

[Citroënbender]

A week in, have to say not much enduring improvement. Tried light duties Tuesday and suffered the last two for it. Stopped the opiates because they make me want to cry as they wear off. Odd, but it was distinctly an emotional effect.

Waiting on a telehealth discussion to see where I go with this doctor. Not opposed to having another crack (or more) at injections, but I want to see a roadmap or strategy presented.

[73 4V XB]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

A week in, have to say not much enduring improvement. Tried light duties Tuesday and suffered the last two for it. Stopped the opiates because they make me want to cry as they wear off. Odd, but it was distinctly an emotional effect.

Waiting on a telehealth discussion to see where I go with this doctor. Not opposed to having another crack (or more) at injections, but I want to see a roadmap or strategy presented.

As hawk girl mentioned, it may be the type of damage done. I’ve had 2 injections in my shoulder that didn’t help at all, ended up operating on it. from my understanding it either works for you or it doesn’t. Fortunately for me the injections in my lower back worked a treat. I’m sorry you don’t have the same results.

[prydey]

For some reason, even though I've ticked the box for notification when the thread is updated, I'm not getting any notifications.

So a belated 'all the best' to you CB. Sorry to hear it hasn't quite gone how you'd hoped but give it time. A week isn't very long.

Really hope you find some relief as it's not nice trying to deal with pain.

I'd also highly recommend getting a bike for fitness once you're able to do something like that. Walking is good too. E-bikes are super popular now too especially for newcomers who aren't that fit or fit those a bit older.

[Citroënbender]

The telehealth call actually came today - doctor seemed genuinely surprised of no real improvement. He’s convinced that another try of the injections is merited, then I get handballed to a specialist if no better. Also his theory was that two attempts before a referral was more likely to keep the specialist on point, not re-trying what had already been attempted.

I will add one thing I forgot in my previous post, the spasms or tics seem to have gone, post-injection. So it probably had partial effect.

Agreed about pain, Prydey - it’s that lack of restful sleep (from unpredictable discomfort) which is the cherry on top.

Have resumed some walking as of last night, not my prior 5km/45min circuit but about 1200m. After four weeks of nothing it will take some time to build up. Weight inching down, as a long term goal the slow rate here doesn’t fuss me. Now under 90kg/183cm for reference, so in rough numbers a way to go yet.

[Citroënbender]

Second go today, I caused a stir by unexpectedly passing out a few minutes after the procedure. Felt fine up to that point! Again, really great staff “on the ground” - just their reception/booking is a total cluster.

Now substantially pain free last week or so; there has been improvement. Tingling, skin crawling sensations remain but tics didn’t return.

Gait isn’t yet right - left heel scuffing, rotation of left leg from spine and through hip is compromised. Don’t feel comfortable running or rushing; fear of injury/pain lingers. Walking speed is improving, feels slow because I was over 5,5km/h, now well below five. Distances now exceeding 3km now walked with no discomfort I could lay blame to. Weights over 10kg feel heavy, but this could simply be loss of condition.

[hawkgirl]

The tingling, crawling sensation is nerve related, paresthesia. Nerve involvement would also affect your gait. I know my right leg sort of muddles up instructions from my brain and back again, so things like walking up stairs can be a bit tricky.

Can recommend Dr. Susanna Deshpande at Penrith pain management

Hoping it gets better for you

[arm79]

Just a stupid side thought for you... Have you considered a new supportive mattress?

I don't have any chronic back problems as such, apart from the excess weight and bad posture... But this and a crappy mattress was causing a bad sleep where I'd wake up almost unable to walk and it would completely fubar my day, unable to walk or move properly.

Late 2018 I went in search of a suitable mattress. Ended with a big brand chiropractic approved thing from Forty Winks. It was crap. Full of so much foam I compressed it within 2 weeks and made by back worse than ever. Went back to sleeping on the couch for a better rest. I was that bad I took them to QCAT to get my money back, which I did.

Ended up with a Sleeping Duck mattress. Best decision ever. 2 weeks after purchase all back problems gone. The only time I have issues is if I do something stupid during the day or sleep like an idiot. But 4 years in, even though I put it to the test nightly, it hasn't sagged nor has the foam compressed. Still as comfy and supportive as when I got it and back issue free.

I will admit the foams have gotten a touch softer over time and I might consider buying new ones. But think I can atleast hang out till the 5 year mark.

As compared to the oldies $7000 Beauty Rest thing which has compressed all the foam into permanent divots, unique body impressions they call it, and causes issues with Dad's back.

My uncle also had chronic lower back issues, some sort of lumbar problems. His best sleep was on the concrete lounge floor. 2 sleeps fixed his back for a week. Eventually got himself some super firm mattress and problems largely went away.

I suppose all this is to say maybe you need to look at it from the other end. Rather than try mask the problem with pain killers, rest your back nightly in a way that relieves pressure from the affected areas and allows you to start the day on a bounce, so to speak.

[zilo]

I was in a trauma ward very recently.

Morphine wasn't providing enough pain relief so one of the doctors prescribed ONE oxycodeine tablet AND two panadol simultaeneously.

Took 10 minutes, then it was like a switch was flicked for 6 hours.

Got a bag of palaxia,gabopentin...etc etc in case of emergency.

Cannot explain the chemical outcome of the concoction but it's definitely effective.

As for cortozone every family member who has had it becomes disfigured after a few months particularly facially.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by zilo

so one of the doctors prescribed ONE oxycodeine tablet AND two panadol simultaeneously.

Panadeine forte is paracetamol and codeine. 500mg and 30mg respectively I think. It's prescription only.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by zilo

I was in a trauma ward very recently.

Morphine wasn't providing enough pain relief so one of the doctors prescribed ONE oxycodeine tablet AND two panadol simultaeneously.

Took 10 minutes, then it was like a switch was flicked for 6 hours.

Got a bag of palaxia,gabopentin...etc etc in case of emergency.

Cannot explain the chemical outcome of the concoction but it's definitely effective.

As for cortozone every family member who has had it becomes disfigured after a few months particularly facially.

I have 2 morphine tablets daily and if its a bad day I have an oxycodone during the day to get me through. I'm also on 6 Osteomol per day. Fortunately, no side effects.

[Citroënbender]

How do you negotiate the drug driving laws? I’d have thought it might flat out disqualify you.

Re the core topic, the pain has actually got worse again, pins/needles are spreading to my other foot at times. A positive is, the discomfort from walking doesn’t extend much beyond the actual walking time. Consultation tomorrow, it’ll be interesting to hear what’s proposed.

[LG17]

Drug driving laws will only affect me if I can get off half this stuff and get on to cannabis oil, which I'm trying to do.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by LG17

Drug driving laws will only affect me if I can get off half this stuff and get on to cannabis oil, which I'm trying to do.

A guy at work swears by hemp oil capsules. They are full of omega 3,6and 9 I think. A natural anti inflammatory.

I tried them but after 2 days I ended up with diarrhoea, which is listed as a possible side effect. My wife reckoned my body would get used to it but I decided not to find out.

Might be worth a shot?

[Citroënbender]

I wish they’d tidy up that legislation; so many people in situations like this.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Re the core topic, the pain has actually got worse again, pins/needles are spreading to my other foot at times. A positive is, the discomfort from walking doesn’t extend much beyond the actual walking time. Consultation tomorrow, it’ll be interesting to hear what’s proposed.

I can't recall but were you ever put on medication such as lyrica for neurological pain (nerve pain)?

Nerves are very sensitive. I'm off lyrica now but only since the new year. I stayed on lyrica for 5 months after surgery because even though the herniated disc was removed, the nerves take a long time to settle down. I still get the odd spasm or tingle sensation.

Maybe talk to the specialist about that. The brain is a funny thing. The body is very clever at fixing itself but pain seems to override all the messages from the brain and the brain then just focuses on trying to deal with the pain.

Don't give up.

[Citroënbender]

I avoided Lyrica, being into the seventh week now (I think) of fluctuating discomfort - it’s probably time to review my attitude to it.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Panadeine forte is paracetamol and codeine. 500mg and 30mg respectively I think. It's prescription only.

It was a trauma ward in emergency not exactly take home stuff..so I am not sure what dose of paracetamol it was....but know oxycodone 25mg wasn't doing anything on its own.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by zilo

Morphine wasn't providing enough pain relief so one of the doctors prescribed ONE oxycodeine tablet AND two panadol simultaeneously.

Took 10 minutes, then it was like a switch was flicked for 6 hours.

Originally Posted by zilo

It was a trauma ward in emergency not exactly take home stuff..so I am not sure what dose of paracetamol it was....but know oxycodone 25mg wasn't doing anything on its own.

It would be helpful to know if you were given a normal tablet or a modified release one.

Normal tablets are give an instant hit that last for a few hours, its not a mixture of meds that do it. Breakthrough pain relief i believe it's referred to.

Modified release have many methods and time frames, but the jist is they are higher dose that releases slowly to provide long even pain relief.

Dad had 5mg instant release oxy tablets as required after his knee was replaced. One tablet and he'd be considering getting up and dancing. But his traditional slow release killers did squat.

Originally Posted by prydey

Panadeine forte is paracetamol and codeine. 500mg and 30mg respectively I think. It's prescription only.

It would have been a straight Paracetamol tablet, not Panadeine Forte. Codeine is a opiate too. Wouldn't double up on opiate pain killers from different pills.

It would be like having a Codral Original and downing a couple of Panadol for good measure. Codral already has a full dose of Paracetamol in it, you wouldn't take 2 full doses at the same time. Or at least normal people wouldn't.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by zilo

It was a trauma ward in emergency not exactly take home stuff..so I am not sure what dose of paracetamol it was....but know oxycodone 25mg wasn't doing anything on its own.

I wasn't saying that's what they gave you. Just mentioning a similar concoction is available.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by prydey

I wasn't saying that's what they gave you. Just mentioning a similar concoction is available.

Best to not quote me then, maybe refer to a Wiki link instead?