OK, start laughing ..

[SMOKDUB]

sounds like before too long its gonna be a bigger headache for you so either fix it , burn it , smash it wat ever lol
just watch them dealers get the wrong one and u end up payin them to take the car off ur hands

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Ahh .. we come to the critical issue here. The "taboo" subject. Do you think that "normal" piston slap noise hurt your trade in?? ie. I can hide oil consumption, but not piston slap.

BTW: The dealer topped it up (1litre .. but I think it actually needed more) and told me to come back in another 2000km ..

I got around $4000 more than I expected, so in that instance I don't think piston slap devalued my trade. Essentially the dealer was on the phone to several places to barter a good price (I guess he was looking for a buyer himself) and didn't mention the slap once to any of them. I had told him that the deal hinged on him getting the best price for my car (as I was still owing $23k on it) and I had walked onto the yard with only a mild interest, no real intention of driving away in a new car.

The piston slap in mine would occur at startup regardless of whether the engine was warm or cold and would last for at least a few minutes.

A comparison between both engines, my LS1 was modded and it did have a lot better throttle response but IMO there's not much difference between the two. They both go real hard when they're above 3k RPM and they're about equal in fuel efficiency with my driving habits.

[OLS108]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

OK, you can all start laughing at me now .. my SV8 went in at 80,000km to have the LS1 exchanged because of "excessive wrist-pin noise". The new engine is at 1700km and when I checked it yesterday, the oil level was about half way between ADD and the bottom of the dipstick. By my calculations it's using about 1 litre of oil per 1000km .. and it's linear; ie. at 500km about 1/2 a litre, at 1000 about 1 litre .. etc. It's back at the Holden dealer today. Want to make a bet that they top it up and tell me to keep driving and they'll put it on an oil consumption test? I think I might not check the oil for another 5000km and let it empty the sump ..

If this saga keeps going like this I might tell the dealer to get their used car dept to find me a nice AUII/AUIII V8 and I'll do a trade in/swap.

[ BTW: The Dealer in this case has been pretty good. The problem is the overall build quality of these engines is very poor .. IMHO ]

an AU oh my god i hope ur joking , i thought even ford fans were happy to see the end of that motoring disaster

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by OLS108

an AU oh my god i hope ur joking , i thought even ford fans were happy to see the end of that motoring disaster

What exactly was wrong with the AU? It wasn't exactly easy on the eyes (to some people anyway), but in the quality stakes, it was always superior to VT - VX, without a shadow of doubt.

[Perana]

I too actually LIKE the look of the AU... I also PREFER the look of the AU over the BA... some may think that is strange but i DGAF really :P

Back on topic: Bad Luck with your LS1 hope all goes well and you get into a Falcon

[4.9 EF Futura]

Man, shame to hear about the GENIII. By the sounds of it, GMH has dealt with the problem a lot better than the US parent company (did someone say class action?)... i mean, they have lawyers over there specialising in mediations between dealers/customers....

There's always gonna be a few lemons on the tree, glad to hear your dealer is looking after you.

Dont they have a revised piston design with longer skirts now? I guess they'd rather replace the engine than rebuild it...

[OLS108]

Originally Posted by Steffo

What exactly was wrong with the AU? It wasn't exactly easy on the eyes (to some people anyway), but in the quality stakes, it was always superior to VT - VX, without a shadow of doubt.

pitty sales dont back up ur agument :

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by OLS108

pitty sales dont back up ur agument :

Sales back up what I say quite well. People didn't like the way it looks, so they didn't buy it.

If you want to look at reliability, you don't look at sales. You look at real world performance. Look at the taxi industry? Why are 99% of cabs Falcons? Because they are the most reliable, well built locally made car. On average, as cab's, the Falcon 4.0's go 500,000km before they need any sort of real attention. The Holden 3.8s would make about 300,000km before needing a ground-up rebuild, or a new engine. Just because a car looks better doesn't mean it is better.

[OLS108]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Sales back up what I say quite well. People didn't like the way it looks, so they didn't buy it.

If you want to look at reliability, you don't look at sales. You look at real world performance. Look at the taxi industry? Why are 99% of cabs Falcons? Because they are the most reliable, well built locally made car. On average, as cab's, the Falcon 4.0's go 500,000km before they need any sort of real attention. The Holden 3.8s would make about 300,000km before needing a ground-up rebuild, or a new engine. Just because a car looks better doesn't mean it is better.

I think my freind u will find that more taxis are fords because ford offer a taxi pack where as holden did not and are trying to stay out of the taxi market. :
and by the way 99% some how i dont think so mate

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by OLS108

an AU oh my god i hope ur joking , i thought even ford fans were happy to see the end of that motoring disaster

Nah, no joke. No offence to either Ford or Holden fans (I'm not really a fan of either specifically), but I'm getting sick of Aussie manufacturers trying to be smart, building more complex vehicles, when they can't even get the basics right. The AUIII was one of the last of the simple cars .. 5.0L windsor. No great drama if anything goes south. When you throw $30K+ into a car and it starts behaving like this (ie. it can't perform even it's most basic function of TRANSPORTATION), you'll do a bit of back peddling too. If I'd spent $60K on a HSV and it did this (yes, they are the same engine up to, but not including the VYII GTS 300kw), I'd be *REALLY* impressed.

I could even go to a VT1 5.0L based on this logic .. but they stopped mfging in '99 (AUIIIs up to '02) so they are getting a bit long in the tooth. Yeah, I could get a VT1 5.0L, but basically in my experience, Holden engines are a boat-anchor. All the best Holdens have been powered by Chevs ...

[OLS108]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Nah, no joke. No offence to either Ford or Holden fans (I'm not really a fan of either specifically), but I'm getting sick of Aussie manufacturers trying to be smart, building more complex vehicles, when they can't even get the basics right. The AUIII was one of the last of the simple cars .. 5.0L windsor. No great drama if anything goes south. When you throw $30K+ into a car and it starts behaving like this (ie. it can't perform even it's most basic function of TRANSPORTATION), you'll do a bit of back peddling too. If I'd spent $60K on a HSV and it did this (yes, they are the same engine up to, but not including the VYII GTS 300kw), I'd be *REALLY* impressed.

I could even go to a VT1 5.0L based on this logic .. but they stopped mfging in '99 (AUIIIs up to '02) so they are getting a bit long in the tooth. Yeah, I could get a VT1 5.0L, but basically in my experience, Holden engines are a boat-anchor. All the best Holdens have been powered by Chevs ...

the very engine ur complaing about is a chev

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by OLS108

the very engine ur complaing about is a chev

Yep .. sad that even that's gone to poo too. I've previously owned a 327 and a 400 Chev and they were great engines ... overall, much better than my experiences with this one.
[ I'll try and stop posting in this thread now ]

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by OLS108

I think my freind u will find that more taxis are fords because ford offer a taxi pack where as holden did not and are trying to stay out of the taxi market. :
and by the way 99% some how i dont think so mate

Well actually, my dad's been a taxi driver for a good while, and one of my good mate's, his dad worked as a taxi mechanic for 25 years, as did his brother. And they all say that the Holden 6 cylinder engines, over the years, have not been able to match Ford for durability. Not just the Buick 3.8 V6 used VN - VYII Commodore, but the Nissan RB30E in the VL, and the Holden Inline-Sixes before that. They all failed to match the durability of the Ford Inline-Six, in both pushrod (XK - XF) and OHC (EA - BA) forms.

I just got home from shopping, and I caught a cab home, an AUII Futura. It had 615,100km on the clock, yet it looked like it had 61,510 on it, and drove like it too. I've yet to even sit in a Commodore taxi, I was in a Statesman one once, it had about 400,000 on it, and looked comparable to an 800,000 old AU inside. Didn't sound that healthy either.

The vast majority of people do not buy cars because of reliability. If they did, Hyundai, for example, wouldn't sell one car. They look for a good, cheap deal, and something that is aesthetically appealing. The AU series wasn't very aesthetically appealing, despite being well built for an Australian production car, hence why people looking for a $35k family sedan would instead buy a VT/VX Commodore, despite the fact that it was pieced together quite poorly in comparison. The cab my dad drives right now is an AU1 Forte, dual fuel, 880,000km (being replaced this July, when its term as a taxi expires). Its driven 24/7. It hasn't been particularly taken care of, and it shows it, the steering wheel is all warped and melted, the centre console storage bin hasn't got a lid, the dash is all rubbed and worn, the seats are falling through etc. The engine hasn't had a nice life either, it consumes its fair share of oil. However, each and every day, it starts first time every time, and does its job. That's awesome durability for a $30,000 family car built solely for a country with a market so tiny it hasn't acheived 1,000,000 new car sales in one year yet. I challenge pretty much any equally priced car to do the same thing.

[Steffo]

Oh, and the VTII - VYII GTS300 300kW 510Nm engine is a GenIII LS1 V8, it just gets sent from Chevrolet's production line to Callaway first, who work it to 300kW @ 6000rpm 510Nm @ 4800rpm, then send it HSV's way, where they just bolt it into the engine bay of said GTS300/SV300/Senator 300 etc.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The vast majority of people do not buy cars because of reliability. If they did, Hyundai, for example, wouldn't sell one car. They look for a good, cheap deal, and something that is aesthetically appealing. The AU series wasn't very aesthetically appealing, despite being well built for an Australian production car, hence why people looking for a $35k family sedan would instead buy a VT/VX Commodore, despite the fact that it was pieced together quite poorly in comparison. The cab my dad drives right now is an AU1 Forte, dual fuel, 880,000km (being replaced this July, when its term as a taxi expires). Its driven 24/7. It hasn't been particularly taken care of, and it shows it, the steering wheel is all warped and melted, the centre console storage bin hasn't got a lid, the dash is all rubbed and worn, the seats are falling through etc. The engine hasn't had a nice life either, it consumes its fair share of oil. However, each and every day, it starts first time every time, and does its job. That's awesome durability for a $30,000 family car built solely for a country with a market so tiny it hasn't acheived 1,000,000 new car sales in one year yet. I challenge pretty much any equally priced car to do the same thing.

IIRC Hyundai topped consumer ratings in the US recently, and arguing over whos got better quality of an AU or VX is like fighting over whos sh!t smells better.

I think theres a post on LS1.com.au where a guy is still experiencing these LS1 problems in his VZ, dunno if its common these days still or if thats a one off...

I'd rather get my hands on a VTI 5.0L. Similar re sale as the early LS1 examples, stronger g/boxes, and they sound a whole lot better too. No need to sh!t yaself everytime you go to check the oil as well :sm_headba

Steffo, do you have performance times of a late 1980s Merc 500SEL?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by smoo

Steffo, do you have performance times of a late 1980s Merc 500SEL?

W126 Mercedes-Benz 500SEL

5.0litre (4973cc/303ci) SOHC V8

137kW (184hp) @ 4500rpm
335Nm (247ftlbs) @ 2000rpm
8.0:1 compression
96.5mm bore
85mm stroke

14 x 6.5 wheels with 205/70 R14 tyres all-round

1662kg (3656lbs)

2.47:1 final drive

0-100km/h: 8.9 seconds
1/4 Mile: 17.0 seconds
Top Speed: 194km/h

Why you ask?

That's for W126 btw... W140 started in 1989 (and went on until 1998). So, if you wanted W140.. I'll happily oblige.

[jabba]

What tech info don't you have. How about performance time for a Gogo mobile?

[smoo]

Cheers, but I was hoping for the European/outside of US model, as they had the 170kw and 410nm version, not de tuned for emissions etc. No worries though.
Na not the W140, wouldn't buy one of those pieces of sh!t when the higher quality W126 could be had much cheaper

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by jabba

What tech info don't you have. How about performance time for a Gogo mobile?

Which Goggomobil? The Dart?

1957 - 1961 Goggomobil Dart

269cc (16.4 ci) Inline-Two, 2v per cyl, OHV

15bhp (11kW) @ 5000rpm
27Nm (20ftlbs) @ 4000rpm
RWD, Rear engine

Weight: 400kg (880lbs)

Top Speed: 85km/h (53mph)

Amount built: 700

That's all I've got on the Dart. Oh, had a Bing l/26 Carburettor and a four-speed manual. Heh.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by smoo

Cheers, but I was hoping for the European/outside of US model, as they had the 170kw and 410nm version, not de tuned for emissions etc. No worries though.
Na not the W140, wouldn't buy one of those pieces of sh!t when the higher quality W126 could be had much cheaper

As far as I know, the Euro W126 500SEL can sprint from 0-100km/h in 6.9 seconds. Top speed on it is in the 140mph (224km/h) range. Its much easier to find specs on the US version though, heh.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Steffo

As far as I know, the Euro W126 500SEL can sprint from 0-100km/h in 6.9 seconds. Top speed on it is in the 140mph (224km/h) range. Its much easier to find specs on the US version though, heh.

Awesome, cheers yea you're right about that. Was wanting to know as I only want to buy one if it has respectible acceleration. Looks like I might, a 5+ meter long luxobarge thats quicker than a VL Walky in a straightline, while carrying 5 in comfort :sm_headba

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

I too actually LIKE the look of the AU... I also PREFER the look of the AU over the BA... some may think that is strange but i DGAF really :P

But then your also a fan of Flared trousers, velcro sneakers and the mullet hairstyle. just joshing!

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Back on topic: Bad Luck with your LS1 hope all goes well and you get into a Falcon

Yeah hope all goes well and you get the LS1 fixed sucessfully. No one is laughing, (well no-one with any brains at least) We see problems ins the Red and the Blue cars, hardly an epidemic, but not a lot of fun if its your pride & joy.


Apologies for the interuption you call all return to some more of Steffos specs now.

[MITCHAY]

Steffo is there a particular awesome web site you use to find all these specs cause that would be good to know just for interest sake. Would be handy to have in the bookmarks.

[Perana]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

But then your also a fan of Flared trousers, velcro sneakers and the mullet hairstyle. just joshing!

Haha i think your thinking of smciner1 there :P

I should clarify i guess... I prefer AUII/III XR over BA XR mainly because of higher differentiation between them and the bast models... AUI's base models and all Fairlane/LTD's were terrible though..

BA's are just a bit plain for me..

From some angles BA's look really nice....

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Haha i think your thinking of smciner1 there :P

I should clarify i guess... I prefer AUII/III XR over BA XR mainly because of higher differentiation between them and the bast models... AUI's base models and all Fairlane/LTD's were terrible though..

BA's are just a bit plain for me..

From some angles BA's look really nice....

Couldnt be said better. All BA XRs to me just look like they have slapped XR headlights, a kit, and wheels on the XT. Aswell as droppn the engine in. Even the new fairlane just looks like a stretched XT with all the trimmings that you get. Some guy comes into my work all the time with the G220 and its nothing special in all honesty.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Couldnt be said better. All BA XRs to me just look like they have slapped XR headlights, a kit, and wheels on the XT. Aswell as droppn the engine in. Even the new fairlane just looks like a stretched XT with all the trimmings that you get. Some guy comes into my work all the time with the G220 and its nothing special in all honesty.

But isn't that how they made every XR? The AU XRs were the same idea.. front end, body kit, engine, on a Forte.

[Perana]

AU XR's were Futura based though :P

[Steffo]

And the difference between Forte and Futura is... besides nothing? Oh yes, that's right, nothing, but some alloys and some nice interior stuff which you can option onto the Forte anyway. I really doubt they differentiated when shipping the shell off to Tickford to make an XR.

[MITCHAY]

Yeah i guess it is just to me it seems the difference is more noticable in the AUs. At a distance i can imediately can pick an AUXR over a base model wheres a BAXR its hard to tell. I still remain firm on the Fairlanes. They are just streched XTs with trimmings. With them like that its not hard to tell why Statesmans and Caprices sell more. Where as when you had the AU and the fairlane its very easy to tell. My mate has a Fairlane Sportsman or something like that and must say would easily look better than the new fairlanes.

[Perana]

Futura had Mid-series (Basically a high-series with a few things disabled) BEM and a different loom to Forte iirc... Forte had low series BEM...