Should Ford push XT against Omega - Page 2

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The problem with doing that is you rob sales from the next up higher spec/priced model, that's bad for Ford, so they need to keep the value in the up spec models and not erode the difference...

Like when Ford offered the G6 LE with G6E appointments for $36990 drive away.
I get the feeling Ford would rather temporarily discount XR/G series than do any more SR packs..

So why didn't they just quietly drop the XT?
This would have been the perfect time...

**Dave R** · 10-04-2010, 01:34 PM

XT is a (relatively) huge seller in the Falcon range. They can't just quietly drop it, that would be a disaster - they'd lose a huge chunk of their fleet business. What they need to do is repair its image.

You could probably call the G6LE an "SR" type pack, just with a different name and more generous features. At heart they are still the same concept, just a different naming convention this time around.

block58 · 10-04-2010, 01:57 PM

Seeing as Ford had already been selling the XR6, G6LE at $36,990 (cheaper than the current XT pricing), I would continue to sell the XR6 at $36,990 and also price the G6 at $36,990, making them both base models for private buyers, then keep the XT strictly for fleets at a cheaper price.

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

XT is a (relatively) huge seller in the Falcon range. They can't just quietly drop it, that would be a disaster - they'd lose a huge chunk of their fleet business. What they need to do is repair its image.

XT accounts for less than 5% of builds, has done for a while now.
That's the point, Ford don't have fleet business anymore,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

You could probably call the G6LE an "SR" type pack, just with a different name and more generous features. At heart they are still the same concept, just a different naming convention this time around.

All they are doing now is trading on a name that hasn't been run into the ground.
I fail to see how $36,990 drive away anything helps Ford's bottom line,
they still make money there but retailing an XT at +$40,000 says not much....

vztrt · 10-04-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

XT is a (relatively) huge seller in the Falcon range. They can't just quietly drop it, that would be a disaster - they'd lose a huge chunk of their fleet business. What they need to do is repair its image.

You could probably call the G6LE an "SR" type pack, just with a different name and more generous features. At heart they are still the same concept, just a different naming convention this time around.

XT isn't selling (it needs to be ordered to be built). XR is the new fleet queen.

R-Design · 10-04-2010, 02:46 PM

Should Ford push the XT against the Omega? I think that’s a given, considering this update is aimed squarely at the Fleet Market. Ipod / Bluetooth integration targets increasing OHS requirements while the 6 Speed Transmission reduces running costs.

Is it a good move? Well considering 50% (roughly) of the cars you’re making are going to the Fleet market, keeping them happy can’t hurt. The additions themselves aren’t exactly game changing, if anything they’re probably helping the XT stay with the pack. Reducing the XR's role as 'Fleet Hack' to protect its resale value & private consumer desirability may also be a consideration.
[CODE] XT Omega Altise AT-X
Transmission 6 Speed 6 Speed 5 Speed 6 Speed
Fuel Cons 9.9L/100Km 9.3L/100Km 8.8L/100Km 9.9L/100Km
Safety 4 Airbags 6 Airbags 6 Airbags 6 Airbags
Bluetooth Std Opt Std Opt[/CODE]
The effect on the balance of the range, well therein lays the issue. As has been said there’s no issue adding content to your base model, just as long as you increase specifications across the range. Ford has tried, but to me it looks like the G6ET is the big loser. It gets slapped with a price rise, and with no new features has become closer in specification to lower models.

Like has been said this update is all about meeting EURO IV regulations. I guess we’ll really have to see what Ford has up their sleeves with the 50th Anniversary models in coming months & next year when the I4T & LILPG herald a new series of vehicles. The Coyote XR8 is shaping up to be quite a package also (315kw’s & GT Brakes), so I’m sure there’ll be plenty of excitement there. The boys from Broady aren’t rolling over just yet!

dannyhilton · 10-04-2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

XT accounts for less than 5% of builds, has done for a while now.

Do you have a link to that figure? I'm very interested in looking at the sources of all these percentages that keep getting thrown about in regards to product mixes.

It's common knoledge that fleets have moved to the XR6, as I keep saying I'm not allowed to order a base model rep car, but with these new features I think head office would give us the go ahead to go back to XT and drop our XR vehicles. I can see the appeal of the XT now.

dannyhilton · 10-04-2010, 05:35 PM

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009...-dwindle-17374

For anyone who wants to see a rough sales breakdown. Car Point say the XT is five percent, but they don't mention that the XR6 has taken it's place in the fleet market.

Brazen · 10-04-2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyhilton

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009...-dwindle-17374

For anyone who wants to see a rough sales breakdown. Car Point say the XT is five percent, but they don't mention that the XR6 has taken it's place in the fleet market.

Ive read a previous article which said that 5% of PRIVATE sales were XT, but this one suggests that 5% of ALL sales are XT. I swear I see more XTs than any other Falcon, which is a suprise as you would hardly notice them to begin with. Maybe its just my neck of the woods

I think an XT with a new name and the G6 front bar minus the chrome would be tops.

Brazen · 10-04-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

XT accounts for less than 5% of builds, has done for a while now.
That's the point, Ford don't have fleet business anymore,

All they are doing now is trading on a name that hasn't been run into the ground.
I fail to see how $36,990 drive away anything helps Ford's bottom line,
they still make money there but retailing an XT at +$40,000 says not much....

I knew I didnt believe the 5% figure on XT. This article shows about a third of all Falcons are XTs.

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009...n-buyers-14874

dannyhilton · 10-04-2010, 06:03 PM

Funny you say that Brazen, I could swear I read somewhere XT sales were at 10%. Notice the reference to 5% was indirrect, so maybe Car Point got it wrong? I'm having a look online now anyway, I'm sick to death of all these random figures getting plastered about with no source or mention of a source. I just want to see the sales breakdown of the Falcon.

Brazen · 10-04-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyhilton

Funny you say that Brazen, I could swear I read somewhere XT sales were at 10%. Notice the reference to 5% was indirrect, so maybe Car Point got it wrong? I'm having a look online now anyway, I'm sick to death of all these random figures getting plastered about with no source or mention of a source. I just want to see the sales breakdown of the Falcon.

What I guess has happened is that a figure of '5% of private buyers buy XT' has been stated and that figure has been confused with 5% of all Falcons are XT. As the articles states, about 30% of Falcons are XT.

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

I knew I didnt believe the 5% figure on XT. This article shows about a third of all Falcons are XTs.

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009...n-buyers-14874

That article is from a year ago.

Since then XR and G Series Falcons have increased to 95% of sales, XT is now built on request.
If you don't believe that, check with your Ford dealer, they'll tell you just how few XTs Ford really sells.

Quote:

Ford Celebrates Rare Falcon Victory
Mr Burela said Ford was now selling more Falcons to private customers rather than fleets and as result was selling far fewer base model XTs than in the past.

“The XT is now a very small part of our business,” he said. “We tend to build XTs only on the basis of orders that have been placed.

“We do not build them to go out there and fill production requirements.”

Brazen · 10-04-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

That article is from a year ago.

Since then XR and G Series Falcons have increased to 95% of sales, XT is now built on request.
If you don't believe that, check with your Ford dealer, they'll tell you just how few XTs Ford really sells.

Yeah but those facts were from a November 09 article in which Burela didnt quote numbers. Carpoint just said "Burela had previously stated...".

I actually dont trust a lot of numbers being sprouted anyway, ever since I read that only 2500 Falcon wagons were sold in 09 when in fact 4610 were sold. My gut does not believe the 5% figure, but perhaps its because most of the XTs im seeing are older XTs and nowadays its a different story.

And when you are only selling 2500 Falcons a month, I would say most are built to order anyway.

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

And when you are only selling 2500 Falcons a month, I would say most are built to order anyway.

they are, so who orders an XT and waits a month for it.
If Ford were selling any significant numbers, wouldn't you be seeing them.

No, the XR6 is the new XT..

**Professor Farnsworth** · 10-04-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

The Xr6 is the new XT, XR6 resale is crashing like a stone. Personally ive got nothing against the XT, and I think the XR6 is pretty bland. I prefer the G6 and G6 Limited Editions.

i've thought the same for some time too.. put the G6 next to the XR and i think it looks more aggressive.

dannyhilton · 10-04-2010, 07:55 PM

I wish Ford would release a model breakdown, unrealistic request I know but it would definitly be of interest to me and I'm sure many others. While I don't doubt the Falcon is going to more private sales, at the end of tge day you can manipulate numbers any way you want to better reflect your point. Reports say more XR and G Series models are being sold, but I'd love to see how well the XR6 Turbo and G6E Turbo has sold, because I'm seeing plenty of these too. Does anyone have access to such an article?

**Dave R** · 10-04-2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

XT accounts for less than 5% of builds, has done for a while now.
That's the point, Ford don't have fleet business anymore,

If that's true then I'm amazed, it was only last year that the XT accounted for a third of all Falcon sales! I imagine Ford still do have a fleet business... selling XR6s!!

Quote:

All they are doing now is trading on a name that hasn't been run into the ground.
I fail to see how $36,990 drive away anything helps Ford's bottom line,
they still make money there but retailing an XT at +$40,000 says not much....

I've always been in two minds about the massive discounting on XRs and G series. I bought an FG XR6 with all the options earlier last year, then found that Ford's new strategy was to destroy the resale of all XR6's and G6's by selling them dirt cheap. Yeah, it moves units but it's quite ironic - not long ago the previous Ford boss (anyone remember Mr T?) said that Ford would not go down the discounting road to move cars for a number of reasons. Then a year or two later the new boss is discounting so far that Holden have had to match it with their SV6. I don't know whether to say good job or F&%# you...

Franco Cozzo · 10-04-2010, 08:45 PM

Whats the difference between the G6 and the XT, besides style wise?

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Whats the difference between the G6 and the XT, besides style wise?

Better trim levels,better choice of colours,a nicer front end, better resale value....

dannyhilton · 10-04-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Whats the difference between the G6 and the XT, besides style wise?

A simple trip to www.ford.com.au will reveal all. The G6 however doesn't come with a big fleet discount like the XR6 or XT does.

**Dave R** · 10-04-2010, 08:55 PM

Ford also harped on about the luxury (soft?) suspension setup with G6 when it was launched.

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyhilton

A simple trip to www.ford.com.au will reveal all. The G6 however doesn't come with a big fleet discount like the XR6 or XT does.

Unless you buy the G6 Limited Edition which is like a G6E but with 5-speed auto for $36,990 drive away..

My sources tell me the factory is booked out through the next two months,
even if Ford wanted to surge with some fleet sales of XT, they couldn't do it...

**Dave R** · 10-04-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Unless you buy the G6 Limited Edition which is like a G6E but with 5-speed auto for $36,990 drive away..

Minus premium sound, dual zone air, electronic memory seats, courtesy lamps etc - G6E still has quite alot over a G6LE.

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Minus premium sound, dual zone air, electronic memory seats, courtesy lamps etc - G6E still has quite a lot over a G6LE.

Edit,
and for an extra $10,000 it should.
The only thing is that the G6 LE looks like a G6E from the outside...

dannyhilton · 10-04-2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

My sources tell me the factory is booked out through the next two months,
even if Ford wanted to surge with some fleet sales of XT, they couldn't do it...

A member in another thread pointed this out (bobthebuilda). If Ford are booked out for the next two months, why discount the hell of two models (XR6 and G6LE)? Products like the G6LE are good for advertising, and bringing private buyers in, but two models? That's a lot of discounting for a company that's supposed to be running at full compasity and has their books filled months in advance.

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyhilton

A member in another thread pointed this out (bobthebuilda). If Ford are booked out for the next two months, why discount the hell of two models (XR6 and G6LE)? Products like the G6LE are good for advertising, and bringing private buyers in, but two models? That's a lot of discounting for a company that's supposed to be running at full compasity and has their books filled months in advance.

Danny, that's been the case at Ford for nearly 12 months, Burela was talking
about that very thing around July last year, the factory is that full of orders.

Those discount models are to get rid of excess 5-speed auto,
there are only 500 G6 LEs being made and I bet there's only
a similar amount of XR6s with that deal too..

jpd80 · 10-04-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyhilton

A member in another thread pointed this out (bobthebuilda).

It was actually Bossxr8.

dannyhilton · 10-04-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

It was actually Bossxr8.

I'm pretty sure I know who I'm quoting, but thanks for attempting to correct me. Just for your reference, the quote I referred to is below. I hope this clears up any confusion regarding the matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Optimism is an admirable quality boss. I on the other hand, look at websites like the following:
http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Cont...FYPage&site=FOA

and wonder why someone has to pull sales forward, and lowers prices when order books are full.

I do however find your input about the G6LE and XR6 limited runs quite helpful, as it does make sense to do these limited builds to clear 5-Speed stock while also giving some brand awareness thanks to the cheap pricing.

bobthebilda · 11-04-2010, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Danny, that's been the case at Ford for nearly 12 months, Burela was talking
about that very thing around July last year, the factory is that full of orders.

Those discount models are to get rid of excess 5-speed auto,
there are only 500 G6 LEs being made and I bet there's only
a similar amount of XR6s with that deal too..

See thats another interesting concept.

1) If they are only building to order, then why would they have 500 of each car sitting around, excess to requirements. One thousand cars is almost a bad weeks production.

2) Or did you mean the actual transmissions, then why would a company who is producing 2 - 3 months behind orders, have an excess of 1000 obsolete transmissions.

3) I assume like most major components, the transmissions arrive in production sequence, thus if an ordered car wasnt coming down the line, what would trigger the order for the transmission. specifically, what would trigger an order for 1000 excess transmissions.

Seriously, if Ford know there are only 500 of each vehicle available at the discounted prices (and havent placed those restrictions in the sale conditions), then they are in serious trouble for bait advertising. I assume there are approx 250 dealerships in oz, thus 2 of each vehicle available per dealership. If someone like Kmart had televisions on sale, but only had 2 for sale per store, they would have alot of explaining to do.