Gm asked to give up Holden brand name?

[jpd80]

I wonder if the Ford brand is now more of a sales impediment than a benefit....

Mazda seems to have really taken off since it's dissociation with Ford.....


Just sayin' the problem might not be the vehicles but the brand itself
and if so, could the same thing be about to inflict Holden...


Australians are ditching luxury Ford and Holden models and in 2013 buyers moved to purchasing more imported luxury models

You can get an Audi for $26,000 now so some are becoming more affordable, Germans now do good smaller SUVs
so there's a real alternative to Asian and local models, the cultural cringe is now upon cars.....

[LeadFoot81]

In Australia, yes the Ford brand seems to be an impediment. Not so much anywhere else in the world.

I'm not sure how you can link Fomoco disassociating itself with Mazda to the Mazda brand going gangbusters (in Australia?)

Holden's issue is that they towed the Made in Australia line so hard, it's going to be an 'interesting' transition into being import only.

[Davehoos]

Mazda brand.
When I was a boy the mazda brand was an oddity sold by family business car dealers that did so as a sideline. My family members had them with plastic on the door and sunvisors.

it wasn't that the escort was bad--plenty running around today- the original ford laser introduced the mazda brand to Australian families that would not buy Japanese. The jap crap crowd. by the time you get to KE normal buyers would be happy to drive into the mazda dealer.

the holden dealer I did my trade at is now a mazda dealer..thats what most of the forum punters don't get. the local ford dealers got rebranded and the winning dealers sold out and retired to money investment companies. take the brand decades to come back.

now today generation would prefer to buy direct from the source so rebadging will never be the draw card it once was.. laser sold great trouble free and did the job.

my neighbours have mostly purchased mazda. work has purchased ford because its fleet--what does that say-lots of cheep fords in used car lots.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

One one hand I am sure most people feel sympathy for workers who are losing their jobs.

But on the other hand, quite rightly, people are a bit annoyed at all the fuss being made and demands for funding and programs to help, because three words stand out loud and proud:
Three. Years. Notice.

So having to worry about your future for 3 years is better than one quick clean exit is it.

It's like ripping a Band-Aid off, do you want to do it slowly or quickly?

People can sook about redundancy payments all they want, with the poor me I lost my job and got stuff all, but the reality is the government is going to put money into retraining all these workers because there is so many of them. If 3 guys lost their job at one place who cares bar those 3 guys and their families, if 3000 guys lose their jobs at one place then a hell of a lot more people need to worry cause it is a massive problem. It sucks for the 3 guys as much as the 3000 but the reality is the loss of 3000 jobs has the potential for big social and un-employment problems, the jobs of the other 3 doesn't. That's why the government will step in when a big company goes, and not when a little one does.

If the guys that lose their jobs at a little company are going to sook about it then maybe they should look for work at a bigger company.

[BHDOGS]

An excellent argument as to why the gov shouldn't give the industry anything *** everyone long as I'm good hey

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Burnout

GM should just call it what it is: Daewoo Australia.

Should they rebrand ford aus - Ford of Thailand and India.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Should they rebrand ford aus - Ford of Thailand and India.

No, because Ford's entire range is made up of legit Fords built at various plants around the world, as opposed to Holden's/GM's motley crew of (in many cases sub-par) re-badged cars.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

No, because Ford's entire range is made up of legit Fords built at various plants around the world, as opposed to Holden's/GM's motley crew of (in many cases sub-par) re-badged cars.

Both company's cars are legit, GM is GM is GM is GM....
No matter where its built or what plant.

And not every Ford car built is top of its class.

[KiwiKilda]

Branding works like this

80% of the info your Brain processes is Visual

For you to make a "Brand Choice" they mix

the "rational" with "the irrational"

Consumers and humans do not act rationally
they do not make purchases based on purely rational decisions

You are "manipulated" every day.

People who understand branding and Ford and Gm both do

understand the brand is meant to make "your choice" of product or "service" easy

You will assume you are getting a "certain thing" with "certain values"
sometime you do some time "you don't" unfortunately

The Australian people have been conned and are being conned and will continue to be conned by the Manufacturers and the Various GVTs

Bob Katter (who I consider to be moderate) is the only person
who understands the "strategic importance" of "manufacturing"
in.... Australia

His policy of making government agencies purchase
Australian made was quite sound

You reap what you sow and with out nurturing manufacturing it dies
as it is now

It is the dumbing down of the Australian Economy that is the most alarming
bit of the equation

[KiwiKilda]

"GM is completely committed to the Holden brand," Mr Svigos said.

"We intend to continue with the Holden brand for many, many years to come."

of course they are that name and badging is worth more than all their plant
put together they are going to milk that puppy dry

they will talk about their on shore design team - till the cows come home

they will put everything AUS on all their advertising merchandise
and christ nows what else - it will be crass and sickening

but what ever they do they will "fool the punters" one way or another

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Both company's cars are legit, GM is GM is GM is GM....
No matter where its built or what plant.

And not every Ford car built is top of its class.

Cool bro.

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

No, because Ford's entire range is made up of legit Fords built at various plants around the world, as opposed to Holden's/GM's motley crew of (in many cases sub-par) re-badged cars.

Does that include the festiva that was built by kia or the econovan that was made by mazda? Even the build plates said," Mazda motor co-ford econovan" and" Kia motor co-ford festiva"

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by velvet

Does that include the festiva that was built by kia or the econovan that was made by mazda? Even the build plates said," Mazda motor co-ford econovan" and" Kia motor co-ford festiva"

Over a decade ago? Hardly relevant now.

[Cuyper]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Spot on Boss! Only thing good about this shutdown and the Ford one too is the classics and even post classics will now DEFINATLY start appreciating.....
ALL of them!

Great time to own a classic/post classic in excellent condition I reckon.....

Get in before prices go ballistic!!!!

Will a GT HO go to 1 Mill in the next few years??? I bloody hope so!!!!

Maybe a short term rise, problem is you can buy a very good classic Ferrari for 100k or any number of better and more famous muscle and sports cars, so who's going to spend a million on a GT?.

[Cuyper]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

So having to worry about your future for 3 years is better than one quick clean exit is it.

It's like ripping a Band-Aid off, do you want to do it slowly or quickly?

You'll only remember one way in twenty years time . The other won't register in your long term trauma. I'd rather not have the memory.

[Vormund]

Originally Posted by Burnout

GM should just call it what it is: Daewoo Australia.

That's not even correct. Daewoo has been defunct since 2011.

If we want to be really correct it is GM Korea

[danzvtil]

all this talk of whether Holden or Ford brand names have value or not post local manufacture is rubbish.Car buyers will shop across a car category and not stop with one brand only, its no longer 1960.If a buyer goes into a holden dealer in 2018 to look at a car they perceive to be inferior, they will buy another brand that joins the dots for them. Hyundai and Kia are laughing all the way to the bank globally, i have family and colleagues who have been long time ford and holden (even european) fans who are now H/K devotees because the products are solid and now even desirable.Look in my driveway

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Both company's cars are legit, GM is GM is GM is GM....
No matter where its built or what plant.

And not every Ford car built is top of its class.

Mate! Why don't you go back to trolling on the LS1 Forum. Since you love GM so much.

[Adamz Ghia]

As good as they are compared to what they were, Hyundai and Kia cars still feel like tin. I just took mum out to buy a new car and shopped across all brands. When you get into a Focus/ Megane/ Golf/ Corolla they feel like they are solid. They feel like they are a quality car. You get into a Hyundai/ Kia/ and straight away you feel they are built to a price. My mum is not a car person and they were her words not mine. They are an appliance built to do a job and nothing more.
They've improved, but they have a way to go. Toyota will continue to thump them here as their cars are miles better quality, getting more of a fun factor put into them as they're updated. That's how you get brand value, selling quality cars people actually want at a price they're willing to pay.

Fwiw mums choice ran down to the Focus and Golf, in the end the Focus won out as she loved the look and feel of it, she felt it was easier to drive and as for value for money the Focus thumped it.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

Mate! Why don't you go back to trolling on the LS1 Forum. Since you love GM so much.

I luv both brands and Italian cars.
Mate, why don't some of you Crusties come out of 1977?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by MethodX

I luv both brands and Italian cars.
Mate, why don't some of you Crusties come out of 1977?

Why don't you?


You're just as stuck there with your suspicions of any other countries besides Australia and Italy making quality cars...

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Why don't you?


You're just as stuck there with your suspicions of any other countries besides Australia and Italy making quality cars...

Bad try mate.
1977 was when the FIAT group was at it lowest quality wise, now they make good cars and are expanding.

[AU1XLS]

Back on topic leave your digs at each other for else where

[KiwiKilda]

all this talk of whether Holden or Ford brand names have value or not post local manufacture is rubbish.Car buyers will shop across a car category and not stop with one brand only, its no longer 1960.

kind of beg to differ

you try this go out to yer vehicle and you get that screw driver out and yet flick the badging off it?

dare you what ever make you got flick the badges off it
and go for a drive without them

see how it looks and how you feel

TYPOGRAPHY is Black GOLD brother

when i was a little boy in we would go to the wreckers and get badges
that there is the coolest part of the car

Ferrari make more money outta the Brand than they do the Cars now
yeah mate it is not the 1960's but holy

I love this site
Posters badges ads typography

http://www.cartype.com/

Check it out read it and weep

http://www.cartype.com/pages/425/holden_related_emblems

http://www.cartype.com/pages/1230/ford

Typography is part art and part engineering science and its practice
requires as much if not more skill and precision than any other part of the
vehicle

any grease monkey can change a radiator but you try
craft type an imagery like those

It is important it has value ole Henry he knew that in 1903
he wasn't going to but any chicken sh8t type on his vehicles was he

The spend good money on this stuff always have and always will

http://www.cartype.com/pages/1230/ford

1903 - Letters and logos.
The script lettering was first used on company communications in 1903 but the first production car, the Model A, received special treatment. Ford produced the first logo for the car, complete with an art nouveau border, very fashionable at the time.


When they leave they may ramp up the "Aussie ness" of everything they do

Who knows

[KiwiKilda]

I don't think people understand the 21st century economy.

<
The Chinese do

Read the full article

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/83...l#.UtUaYCiTQ5s

China's armed forces have been told to choose domestic brand cars when procuring military vehicles, according to a circular published on Monday.

<
Who and what is the Aus Gvt going to buy????

What was the reason they came here in the first place???

Used to be a lot of weaponry "made in aus" as well

touchy subject but the deliberate destruction and dismantling of Aus
manufacturing has IMHO an Ulterior Motive

It has been allowed by Traitors and their reasoning is flawed

Holden and Ford should go and a

real Australian brand should form

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

all this talk of whether Holden or Ford brand names have value or not post local manufacture is rubbish.Car buyers will shop across a car category and not stop with one brand only, its no longer 1960.If a buyer goes into a holden dealer in 2018 to look at a car they perceive to be inferior, they will buy another brand that joins the dots for them. Hyundai and Kia are laughing all the way to the bank globally, i have family and colleagues who have been long time ford and holden (even european) fans who are now H/K devotees because the products are solid and now even desirable.Look in my driveway

I really do beg to differ.

Branding is huge and means more to many whether they believe it or not. BMW, Audi & Merc are just going along in leaps and bounds because of the badge and badge alone.

It goes for both Holden and Ford and every other brand that have worked very hard to build credibility towards their branding.

Subconsciously most will think they are buying because other reasons but when it boils down to it, they buy because of what their experienced previously with that brand, how others perceive that brand, a high expectation of that brand and will pay extra for that brand.

I could have bought an F6 10k cheaper than a GT ....... but apart from the fact it isnt a V8 ...... the F6 doesn't say GT! Not the absolute deciding factor but held alot of weight in the decision made.

Most Mercs in my opinion are overpriced ugly cars ....... never been a fan but appreciate what they offer and how much they can charge for what is, to me, an overrated brand. Thing is though ..... if someone says they drive a Merc, you want to know which one! If someone says they drive a Kia ..... there is an awkward silence ...... chirping crickets

Mrs wanted a BMW! Why? "Because I like BMW's". When I asked which one would you like, she said a White one. (And if I made her drive another Ford she will run me down!)

SO ...... just saying ..... would be blown away if Holden change their name. To many years in promoting the image. Cannot see it going away. There will always be the white goods buyers. Toyota, Kia, Hyundai etc know this and have capitilised on it very successfully BUT brand snobbery is ripe whether intentional or subconsciously.

[Windsor220]

Thats why Ford is suffering. Its not a brand people aspire to own like a Euro and its not a cheap value packed white good. Its stuck in no mans land.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Thats why Ford is suffering. Its not a brand people aspire to own like a Euro and its not a cheap value packed white good. Its stuck in no mans land.

You could be right ....... and I believe that Holden or GM might be in a similar position.

Cost of Euro's are decreasing and the qty of models is increasing. Those who aspired to own a Beemer or the like might find themselves in a position to buy one come 2017 or earlier.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

I really do beg to differ.

Branding is huge and means more to many whether they believe it or not. BMW, Audi & Merc are just going along in leaps and bounds because of the badge and badge alone.

It goes for both Holden and Ford and every other brand that have worked very hard to build credibility towards their branding.

Subconsciously most will think they are buying because other reasons but when it boils down to it, they buy because of what their experienced previously with that brand, how others perceive that brand, a high expectation of that brand and will pay extra for that brand.

I could have bought an F6 10k cheaper than a GT ....... but apart from the fact it isnt a V8 ...... the F6 doesn't say GT! Not the absolute deciding factor but held alot of weight in the decision made.

Most Mercs in my opinion are overpriced ugly cars ....... never been a fan but appreciate what they offer and how much they can charge for what is, to me, an overrated brand. Thing is though ..... if someone says they drive a Merc, you want to know which one! If someone says they drive a Kia ..... there is an awkward silence ...... chirping crickets

Mrs wanted a BMW! Why? "Because I like BMW's". When I asked which one would you like, she said a White one. (And if I made her drive another Ford she will run me down!)

SO ...... just saying ..... would be blown away if Holden change their name. To many years in promoting the image. Cannot see it going away. There will always be the white goods buyers. Toyota, Kia, Hyundai etc know this and have capitilised on it very successfully BUT brand snobbery is ripe whether intentional or subconsciously.

I agree Auslandau, GM wont drop the Holden badging for AU because post aussie manufacturing thats has huge pulling power.
I could have explained better, i meant people claiming that no longer being able to buy an aussie made car from holden or ford meaning those names have no meaning, the brand will only be as good as the quality of the offer, no matter where its built.
Prestige brands are falling over themselves to move downmarket to pick up huge volumes, Merc-New A Class- see how desirable this new model can be when they no longer make it a euro focussed tall boy people mover wannabe.
BMW has the MINI brand, 1 series and i series comming, these are the segments you need to be in to continue selling around the world with strict emission standards.

Originally Posted by KiwiKilda

all this talk of whether Holden or Ford brand names have value or not post local manufacture is rubbish.Car buyers will shop across a car category and not stop with one brand only, its no longer 1960.

kind of beg to differ

you try this go out to yer vehicle and you get that screw driver out and yet flick the badging off it?

dare you what ever make you got flick the badges off it
and go for a drive without them

see how it looks and how you feel

TYPOGRAPHY is Black GOLD brother

when i was a little boy in we would go to the wreckers and get badges
that there is the coolest part of the car

Ferrari make more money outta the Brand than they do the Cars now
yeah mate it is not the 1960's but holy

I love this site
Posters badges ads typography

http://www.cartype.com/

Check it out read it and weep

http://www.cartype.com/pages/425/holden_related_emblems

http://www.cartype.com/pages/1230/ford

Typography is part art and part engineering science and its practice
requires as much if not more skill and precision than any other part of the
vehicle

any grease monkey can change a radiator but you try
craft type an imagery like those

It is important it has value ole Henry he knew that in 1903
he wasn't going to but any chicken sh8t type on his vehicles was he

The spend good money on this stuff always have and always will

http://www.cartype.com/pages/1230/ford

1903 - Letters and logos.
The script lettering was first used on company communications in 1903 but the first production car, the Model A, received special treatment. Ford produced the first logo for the car, complete with an art nouveau border, very fashionable at the time.


When they leave they may ramp up the "Aussie ness" of everything they do

Who knows

I agree KIWI, those badges and imagery are a part of a car people connect with and remember, some even form early childhood memories, while a part like a radiator can be the most advanced in the world no one will connect with it on an important level.

[Maka]

Holdens lineup & price points will be key no doubt about it, how they change market perceptions & what "incentives" they offer (to change any negative perception about them) will be interesting to watch in the next couple of years.

cheers, Maka