Teens get takeaway food at fatal crash

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by Fev

in reply to Bud Bud:

of course i read the article, i just viewed it in a difference way. there is so many difference ways to interpret what is said in these articles.
We dont have any way of knowing, say - If how long after the accident the macas was delivered etc etc - hell they could have been on their way to see them with the food or something. i never take news articles at face value and i will always have more questions that need answering. i like to keep an open unbiased mind on things like this because it is so easy to jump to conclusions with the information that is provided and im not going to crucify someone before enough information is found.


The real point of the article should have been 5 guys, unregisted car, uninsured, unlicensed, unable to drive said "highpowered" car with a license at that age anyway and what is being done to help curb this sort of person on the road. Other then the crash anyway which in itself isn't HUGE HEADLINE worthy news(i know it sounds horrible but its true)

I take you point, and I said please don't take it the wrong way.

But to me the article really shows some peoples frustration in this case the local residence that attended the scene as being angry for the non caring blas'e attitude towards other people in distress. This is what has upset everyone. This was also without the prior knowledge of the string of offences that you have quite rightly pointed out that this particular individual has already wracked up. What would the residence have reported if they were armed with that little nugget of information?

I have seen two separate fatalities (not directly involved in) years apart and the last thing I thought of was Maccas, but I guess everyone is different.

[Fev]

i betcha the resident there probably would have gone ballistic about it. But still, there's no way of knowing if the teen's were sitting there eating the food like spectators or sitting there scared as all hell having some food to calm them down - i eat to relax, alot of people do. basicly the article blasts the teens because of the observations of the man who went to the elderly couple - i'm not saying he's wrong, but theres more to be heard from the teens on the subject imo.

[LTDHO]

This is the world of which we live.

Get used to it or make changes

[troppo]

And the moral of the story is: You can count on the media to report ONLY the facts most likely to acheive the desired result...in this case, another public outcry directed squarely at those percieved to be hoons.

[MNM96]

Originally Posted by troppo

And the moral of the story is: You can count on the media to report ONLY the facts most likely to acheive the desired result...in this case, another public outcry directed squarely at those percieved to be hoons.

I agree with your sentiment, but the truth is that its another public outcry directed squarely at those "absolutely undesirable, non law abiding buttclowns, who make life for the rest of us, who are unfairly perceived to be hoons!

Appearances show the crash, from the little info I have available to me, that the elderly couple failed to give way at a roundabout. Seems given that these kids were in the wrong place at the wrong time. This elderly man has paid the ultimate price!

Reality is, this lad was speeding, apparently likely under the influence of drugs, unreg, unlicensed, over oxygenated, and will have to live with this for the rest of his life!

No good can come from this!

RIP to the old Guy, and my Condolences to his Wife!

[FPV GT40]

The peanut driving the car is facing 12 charges in relation to the accident and he is also awaiting another 19 charges for previous matters, that is 31 charges in total....the guy is obviously a complete waste of oxygen no matter who reports it or how it is reported.

For a person to be be facing this many charges, at his age, he just does not care about anything or anyone....

If he had any sense at all he would not have been driving in the first place, but he has no respect for the law and human life....so lets hope he gets treated accordingly in prison....I feel sorry for the family of the old couple, imagine if it was your parents or grandparents and the person that has just caused their death is watching them die while eating his Maccas... :

People saying the other car failed to give way are possibly only partly right as they would never have expected the vehicle to be traveling as fast as it possibly did, I doubt this accident would have occurred if the WRX was traveling at 50 or 60 km/hr.....

[troppo]

Originally Posted by MNM96

I agree with your sentiment, but the truth is that its another public outcry directed squarely at those "absolutely undesirable, non law abiding buttclowns, who make life for the rest of us, who are unfairly perceived to be hoons!

That's why I added the word 'percieved' and the media do whatever they can to make sure your perception is the 'right' one.

[FTe342]

Originally Posted by Fev

forgetting the drivers prior convictions etc..

It sounds all disgusting while being put like that but what do you really think they are going to do - i would have done exactly the same thing, although i would have called an ambulance - did it say if they did that??.. i'm not going to risk someones life, possibly killing or making them a paraplegic by trying to drag them out of a collision unless there was a fire or something like that. the most i would do is direct traffic. other then that they would have been in shock.

Dont think of them as the scum of the earth, sure what they did wasn't exactly tasteful but what else could they have done? and the crash itself is disgraceful but they were probably scared sh**less that their own lives were ruined, especially as they would have been so confused they wouldnt have known what was going on anyway..

atleast this is what I would have thought if i was in their shoes, you see too many medical shows saying do not move a crash victim blah blah blah, could cause permanent spinal injury but then again we'll never know what was going through their own heads at the time.

You have a lot to learn. One of the conditions when you are granted a license is that you will assist others injured if your involved in a accident. If you yourself are injured and can't assist then so be it, BUT these oxygen thieves are standing on the footpath FFS! If someone else has already gone to the injured persons assistance, you still check to see if they need help.

No you don't need to drag people out of the car, but you check to see if they are able to breathe and arrest any bleeding.

Watch a few less medical shows and get yourself to a basic first aid course

[JutroXR8]

Originally Posted by fiery

I don't know how many of you have ever had the media 'use' what you have said especially at a crisis scene. Or how many of you have had the media 'report' about yourself for any reason what so ever.

But in my dealings with media, they do embellish a fair bit. They might put some-one's name to saying something but that something may not have been said quite like it was reported.

If this was a 50 year old man with his 48 year old wife, 45 year old brother and 40 year old sister in law in the car, would you all be saying what you are?

I have been in the area of some horrific accidents and whilst it might not be the 'norm' to have food delivered by a third party it might not have been quite as it was reported either.
The teens, being teens, most likely would have been in shock, they may not have realised the gravity of the situation. They may not have had to deal with any sort of accident.
The residents possibly got to the elderly couple first as the teens would have had to pull themselves from the car, and then access the situation.

I know when my son and his gf had an accident, not their fault, they were hit from behind by a speeding 45 year old woman.
The first thing said to them by a so called 'witness' was, 'if you weren't being silly it wouldn't have happened'. This is an absolute crock considering the kids were waiting to turn (Jess's indicator was still on, so no-one could say it wasn't working).
Luckily for them, there was a couple of others that 'actually' saw what happened and spoke up.
And guess what, neither of the two kids went to the woman in the car immediately as there were others that got to her before the kids were out of the car.
Oh and a 'nurse' told the kids to have something that has a bit of sugar to it to help calm. Personally don't know if that would be the right thing or not, but that is what they were told.

Wonder if an adult gave the same advice to these youngsters? Could it have been a parent that brought these kids food?

Unless you were there, you witnessed what happened, you honestly do not know exactly what transpired. Besides, the residents could be the same type of people that carry on about 'hoons' and saw it as a situation to run with.

That might sound harsh, but it is all a possibility. If you want the 'facts' about it all, take the time to go to the court house at the next hearing and see what transpires.

Yes, he obviously has priors but funny how the elderly couple appear to be in the wrong but it is the kids to get crucified because of the 'drivers past' and the fact the silly boy was driving unlicensed and unregistered.

Just my 2 cents.

Totally agree.

Its funny how everyone is so eager to jump to conclusions without knowing the full storey. apart from unregistered and unlicenced driving, i still fail to see the outrage. There is no information to state that the youths were speeding, reckless driving, or failed to give way (otherwise they would have been charged by the police on those counts as well). So I still think that even though by law, the youths are at fault of the accident, I think that the alderly driver should take some responsibility for their failure to give way. Because if they hit someone who was licenced and driving a registered vehicle, the older driver would have been at fault. And if they gave way, they probably would have still been alive today. Please note that this conclusion is drawn with many assumptions such as the photo seems to indicate that the alderly driver failed to give way and that the article relation to the chargers are correct.

Also sugar does prevent people of fainting, thus the maccas. nothing wrong with that.

[JutroXR8]

Originally Posted by shaynet

You have a lot to learn. One of the conditions when you are granted a license is that you will assist others injured if your involved in a accident. If you yourself are injured and can't assist then so be it, BUT these oxygen thieves are standing on the footpath FFS! If someone else has already gone to the injured persons assistance, you still check to see if they need help.

No you don't need to drag people out of the car, but you check to see if they are able to breathe and arrest any bleeding.

Watch a few less medical shows and get yourself to a basic first aid course

Yes your right, if they are able. But what if your in shock????? again scapegoating.

If someone is already helping them (there could have been multiple people there (no reference in the article as to numbers)), the last thing you want to do is have 10000 people asking them if they need help. It crowds the scene and makes it more difficult to render assistance. Also you want the paramedics and ambulance to have enough room to get access to these people up on their arrival. And yes i have done my 1st aid course, the refresher was last month.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by fairlane_ghia

There was a follow up on this today :

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...0-1248,00.html

Apparently he was already on bail for 19 other charges from the drug court, he was un-licenced and the car was un-registered.

His Lawyer reckons he's not a callous boy...

The world could do without people like this...

...at least for another 3-5.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Fev

Dont think of them as the scum of the earth, sure what they did wasn't exactly tasteful but what else could they have done? and the crash itself is disgraceful but they were probably scared sh**less that their own lives were ruined, especially as they would have been so confused they wouldnt have known what was going on anyway..

The main point was they made a call to a mate and had Maccas delivered to them. Had I been the driver (or any of the passengers in that car), I doubt I would have had the stomach to eat for a few days knowing my actions has possibly ended another life or two.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by NYTEYZ

I know i'm going to get shot down for what I'm bout to say and in no uncertain terms do i agree with, applaude, or condone what these 'Things' did but from the photo it looks (to me anyway) that the driver of the van entered the roundabout without giving way. Yes if the 18 yr old driver was doing the legal speed limit this fatal could have merely been a broken hip.

Like i said i don't condone what these guys did, not one little bit.

Hard to say based on the photo but looking at it logically, for the WRX to hit the Escort with that sort of force it would have had to have been moving - which to me suggests the Escort was in the roundabout first. The Escort had right of way.

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by JutroXR8

There is no information to state that the youths were speeding, reckless driving, or failed to give wayI think that the alderly driver should take some responsibility for their failure to give way. And if they gave way, they probably would have still been alive today.

The driver is facing 12 charges......so he must have done something wrong :

It is not fail to give way if the wrx was speeding, like stated in my earlier post if the wrx traveled at 50 or 60 km/hr, and slowed for the roundabout I doubt this would have happened.

He also had 19 previous charges, so this guy must ba a real angel...may be he is just misunderstood and wasn't breast fed by his mum...the poor bugger I feel sorry for him, he is so unfortunate and hard done by :evil3: :

I hope big bubba will give him something hard to deal with every night

[FTe342]

Originally Posted by JutroXR8

Yes your right, if they are able. But what if your in shock????? again scapegoating.

If someone is already helping them (there could have been multiple people there (no reference in the article as to numbers)), the last thing you want to do is have 10000 people asking them if they need help. It crowds the scene and makes it more difficult to render assistance. Also you want the paramedics and ambulance to have enough room to get access to these people up on their arrival. And yes i have done my 1st aid course, the refresher was last month.

Don't patronise me. If as a driver (and you have had an accident and are not injured) and you have one shred of moral decency in your body, you immediately go to check on the condition of the injured, whether others are already doing that or not.

There are a lot of possible scenarios in this event and others about how many people are already rendering assistance. If its only one and the injured is bleeding from more than 2 places, how many sets of hands do you need?

Yes you may be in shock, but the real shock sets in a little later. Until then, your natural instinct should be to help, show compassion etc and not worry about what might happen to yourself when the police arrive (as some others have suggested here as reason for failing to assist and needing Maccas to stop themselves from fainting : )

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by shaynet

Don't patronise me. If as a driver (and you have had an accident and are not injured) and you have one shred of moral decency in your body, you immediately go to check on the condition of the injured, whether others are already doing that or not.

There are a lot of possible scenarios in this event and others about how many people are already rendering assistance. If its only one and the injured is bleeding from more than 2 places, how many sets of hands do you need?

Yes you may be in shock, but the real shock sets in a little later. Until then, your natural instinct should be to help, show compassion etc and not worry about what might happen to yourself when the police arrive (as some others have suggested here as reason for failing to assist and needing Maccas to stop themselves from fainting : )

Spot on.. and if you had half a conscience you'd go out of your way to help..

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Spot on.. and if you had half a conscience you'd go out of your way to help..

Instead of making Maccas a priority!

[mongoloid]

I mean maybe they could have had some cookies while helping.

DRABC. Its all you need to remember. Theres no point 'not moving' someone in order to prevent spinal damage if the car is on fire or their airway is blocked, you dont really need your spine when you're dead.

[Fev]

We have NO idea if they were speeding or not. theres not one word that says that he was speeding, the WRX isn't that hugely mangled and the lil van looks that bad because its been ripped apart by the Jaws of life.
"Dangerous driving" is a charge the police throw at you for any accident the police are called to basicly - and it will hold up in court especially for this accident as the driver had no license etc etc..

Originally Posted by Rodp

The main point was they made a call to a mate and had Maccas delivered to them. Had I been the driver (or any of the passengers in that car), I doubt I would have had the stomach to eat for a few days knowing my actions has possibly ended another life or two.

who the hell knows if they called a mate to pick maccas up for them - MAYBE, you know.. without jumping to conclusions.. that they were already on their way to see them when they got the call their mate just had an accident?


Look. all im saying is don't believe everything you read, especially the media, sure what he 'didn't do' looks bad like this but none of us know the whole story, the only information we have is this pi$$weak article.

i'm not defending the fact that this moron was driving without a license and all the other stuff.

[Fev]

Originally Posted by mongoloid

DRABC. Its all you need to remember. Theres no point 'not moving' someone in order to prevent spinal damage if the car is on fire or their airway is blocked, you dont really need your spine when you're dead.

of course - as i already said

Originally Posted by Fev

i'm not going to risk someones life, possibly killing or making them a paraplegic by trying to drag them out of a collision unless there was a fire or something like that

and sorry whats "DRABC"? havn't heard of that before.

*sorry for the double post*

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by Fev

of course - as i already said
and sorry whats "DRABC"? havn't heard of that before.

Book yourself into a first aid course and you will learn all about it

[Fev]

probably one of those thing i need to go do, how much do they cost? - kinda broke atm :(

[platinumXR]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]Hello all, am new to forum so I hope I don't mess this up or put too many noses out of joint.

Everyone replying has, generally speaking; the usual and dare I say correct response. The media do beat up a story and we all respond to it in the way we are supposed to. With contempt, disgust and more importantly: debate.

These "kids" are a product of what 'we' as adults teach them whether deliberately or inadvertently. I drive around all day and see people talking on phones while driving, no seatbelts, tailgating, intimidating, cutting off, unsure of how to use a round about, speeding (sometimes excessively even in 50 or 40 km/hr school zones) and not just P platers. Sure, most - not all - blatantly ignore laws and common courtesy but only because it has been instilled in them by influential people surrounding them that it is OK to do so. It is often called "Monkey See Monkey Do".

In my (humble) opinion, if people and not just kid's; were taught hot to drive properly - not just be taught how to manipulate controls - then there may not be a need to ban every car in sight.

And in saying this I mean: PROPER CAR CONTROL - wet driving, night driving, vehicle dynamics, roadcraft, legislation or rules and driver courtesy and try and get the Gummint to get it taught at school then maybe there would not be as many dead stupid kids as there are. You cannot legislate against stupidity and like it or not kids are stupid. We all were. I was when I was on my P's all those many centuries ago. Confident, invincible, arrogant and ignorant.

A wise man once said: 'People often get their ambitions confused with their abilities" and he couldn't be more correct. (Thanks Alan Moffatt)

Whew..I'll take breath now...I could add more but I will wait for angry responses.

Fingers crossed and...submit...

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by Fev

probably one of those thing i need to go do, how much do they cost? - kinda broke atm :(

Talk to your work, i been doing them every few years for the last 20 years work has always payed for them, but then again most jobs I have had the first aid certificate is a must to get the job....well worth doing.

No idea how much they are to be honest..

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]Hello all, am new to forum so I hope I don't mess this up or put too many noses out of joint.

Everyone replying has, generally speaking; the usual and dare I say correct response. The media do beat up a story and we all respond to it in the way we are supposed to. With contempt, disgust and more importantly: debate.

These "kids" are a product of what 'we' as adults teach them whether deliberately or inadvertently. I drive around all day and see people talking on phones while driving, no seatbelts, tailgating, intimidating, cutting off, unsure of how to use a round about, speeding (sometimes excessively even in 50 or 40 km/hr school zones) and not just P platers. Sure, most - not all - blatantly ignore laws and common courtesy but only because it has been instilled in them by influential people surrounding them that it is OK to do so. It is often called "Monkey See Monkey Do".

In my (humble) opinion, if people and not just kid's; were taught hot to drive properly - not just be taught how to manipulate controls - then there may not be a need to ban every car in sight.

And in saying this I mean: PROPER CAR CONTROL - wet driving, night driving, vehicle dynamics, roadcraft, legislation or rules and driver courtesy and try and get the Gummint to get it taught at school then maybe there would not be as many dead stupid kids as there are. You cannot legislate against stupidity and like it or not kids are stupid. We all were. I was when I was on my P's all those many centuries ago. Confident, invincible, arrogant and ignorant.

A wise man once said: 'People often get their ambitions confused with their abilities" and he couldn't be more correct. (Thanks Alan Moffatt)

Whew..I'll take breath now...I could add more but I will wait for angry responses.

Fingers crossed and...submit...

You are not too far off the mark, but people must use their own common sense at time, licences should be a LOT harder to get and punishment for driving without one should be a LOT harsher....No licence should equal permanent car confiscation and prison time. 6 months for first offence...two years if you have caused accident or similar in the process.

You kill someone in the process you should be facing murder charges, and should be looking at 10-20 years, and NEVER drive again.

Not every person should be allowed to have a licence, just like everyone can not fly a plane or become a doctor, there should be minimum ability and strict testing and monitoring.....Cars are a leathal weapon and should be treated as such...

[MNM96]

Originally Posted by troppo

That's why I added the word 'percieved' and the media do whatever they can to make sure your perception is the 'right' one.

My point is that their perception is correct!

[MNM96]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

Cars are a leathal weapon and should be treated as such...

No they aren't. People kill people, cars don't kill people!

[XRQTR]

From the article


Police interviewed the five youths at the scene. The driver was charged with obstructing police while three of the others were handcuffed but not charged.

No other charges had been laid last night.


The police have no one to blame but themselves for this kind of behaviour, the driver should have been charged with, at the very least, Vehicular Manslaughter while the friends should have copped an Accessory To The Fact charge.

The driver was disqualified......................Fact
The car was known to the police.............Fact
The teens involved showed no remorse whatsoever at the scene of the accident, nor did they attempt to assist the injured in any way..............Fact
They further showed disregard for those injured by ordering take away....Fact


And they charge the driver with, wait for it, OBSTRUCTING POLICE?????

I really feel in cases such as this the cops are more to blame than those who cause it in the first place, with light weight charges like those handed out here what message do they send to other teens with the same mentality.

[TE50pilot]

[QUOTE=Fev] sorry whats "DRABC"? havn't heard of that before.

D Danger Check for dangers in area to self or others
R Response Is the patient concious or unconcious
A Airway Is it open and clear
B Breathing Is the patient breathing can see chest rising and falling
C Circulation Can you feel a pulse or see any obvious signs of life.

Which patient do you attend first. A) The one screaming and yelling or b)The one laying there unconcious.
The answer is b because the other show all the signs of RABC.
There you go end of lesson.

By the way how do you tell from the picture who is in the wrong? If you are at the roundabout and enter and a car is 3 or 4 car lengths away from said roundabout and enters at any speed and hits you aren't you in the right. My impression is that you must give way to all vehicles on the roundabout.
May be I have it wrong. But I still can not tell who was on the roundabout first by just looking at the photo. That may be why the the charges don't include dangerous driving just yet. Investigations take time.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

You are not too far off the mark, but people must use their own common sense at time, licences should be a LOT harder to get and punishment for driving without one should be a LOT harsher....No licence should equal permanent car confiscation and prison time. 6 months for first offence...two years if you have caused accident or similar in the process.

You kill someone in the process you should be facing murder charges, and should be looking at 10-20 years, and NEVER drive again.

Not every person should be allowed to have a licence, just like everyone can not fly a plane or become a doctor, there should be minimum ability and strict testing and monitoring.....Cars are a leathal weapon and should be treated as such...

Correct, licences are SUPPOSED to be a privilege, not a right. We have the right to apply for one by law but should not be guaranteed one on application.

As well, it does not matter whether licenses are suspended or cancelled or whatever...people still drive regardless...it's a cultural thing that we all believe that we are doing no wrong and that we should be able to weasel out if caught. No one wants to take responsibility for their actions...there's always an excuse...boo hoo I need my licence for work...boo hoo I need my licence to go to the 'Done clinic...or whatever. Courts are WAY too lenient, and the licencing system does not allow for POSITIVE and PRODUCTIVE action or consequences to be enabled or bestowed.

Perhaps these "kid's" are just an unfortunate by-product of an apathetic generation and it has rubbed off. Attitudes in the MAJORITY of the population need to change, not just we all here on the forum (being the preaching to the converted). Everyone knows what they SHOULD do, but they don't.

Perhaps we need V8 Supertaxi or DRIFT or WRC drivers to conduct a campaign that tells kids to "Do it on the track - not on the street" or something. Not only is it goofy to race on public roads but it is even goofier to do it in the midst of general population where any old Escort 'panno could pull out in front of you. Regardless of who is in the wrong.