(vic) channel 7 6:00 tonight

[Bobman]

Speed cameras should never replace a real police patrol, that's what it looks like here in Melbourne anyway, there is a low police prescence on the roads in comparison to earlier years (saying that, I have not seen a traffic police vehicle for a few days on the road - 7 hours driving a day in suburbia).

Also, if the people who actually are stupid enough to become a speed camera operator (they should be well aware of the risks involved with this job by now) - if they don't like it, change careers.

There are far more other dangerous careers that don't get mentioned, yet the media only concentrates on articles that make money - just like the rest of the world is these days.

[eMpTy]

Personally, can't stand the idea of these vans. Even seen a few locally that are just parked and left on site for a few hours, no operator in sight.
Anyway, not sure how true it is but when I used to live in canberra I was told about a car load of young blokes that swiped the plates off one of these vans, attached them to their own vehicle and then proceeded to make about half a dozen land speed record attempts past the van then returned the plates.
If it's true then I reckon that's gotta be one of the smartest forms of revenge (however dumb driving at such speeds on a public road may be), beats **** outta just kickin crap out of the camera operator for doing his job.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Also, if the people who actually are stupid enough to become a speed camera operator (they should be well aware of the risks involved with this job by now) - if they don't like it, change careers.

There are far more other dangerous careers that don't get mentioned, yet the media only concentrates on articles that make money - just like the rest of the world is these days.

You must have been drunk when you posted that hey?

Originally Posted by eMpTy

Anyway, not sure how true it is but when I used to live in canberra I was told about a car load of young blokes that swiped the plates off one of these vans, attached them to their own vehicle and then proceeded to make about half a dozen land speed record attempts past the van then returned the plates.

I remember this, was big news in Canberra for a week or two. Can't substantiate it though unfortunately.

[Bobman]

Well a smart thing with the removal of plates would be to drive past at precisely 64 (or at a speed where it will flash at the lowest point) - excessive speed is never a safe thing in suburbia.

Speed cameras do not save lives as quite often they are on a straight stretch of road (usually at the bottom of a hill aswell) where no recorded fatalities have occurred in most cases. It's laughable to think otherwise.

[Scott]

Speed cameras have to be on straight road so they can accurately sample your speed. They are designed to do two things...... first is to build driver awareness of their speed by forcing road users to be more alert and secondly to raise revenue. Work out for yourself which of the two they do better.

[Rev28K]

Anyone who promotes driving to speed limits as the main answer to cutting the road toll has blood on their hands.

What’s the point of having to start learning car control & panic braking when you are placed in a life or death situation.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Speed cameras have to be on straight road so they can accurately sample your speed. They are designed to do two things...... first is to build driver awareness of their speed by forcing road users to be more alert and secondly to raise revenue. Work out for yourself which of the two they do better.

Well since you are a fellow ACT resident do really think these things work here?

Speed, slow down, speed up again, that doesn't achieve anything really does it?

You're quite right about being more alert, but it doesn't stop people from speeding, just for that little distance so they don't get caught.

Drakeford Drive is the perfect example of stupidity. That is good for 100km/h and it is an 80km/h since most do it anyways and I haven't witnessed any accident.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Well since you are a fellow ACT resident do really think these things work here?

Absolutely! They raise heaps of $$.

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

You're quite right about being more alert, but it doesn't stop people from speeding, just for that little distance so they don't get caught.

I have slowed down over the years... might come with age. I do however notice that I am travelling slower and slower in areas where I know the vans hang out. I guess that is part of their aim?

[Bobman]

GTP006:

You must be drunk to believe speed cameras play a crucial role in reducing the road toll across the country.

Funnily enough, you rarely see one in the country where most fatalities actually happen.

If even half the amount raised from fine revenue was placed in driver education, then it would not be as bad, but it isn't - it goes into the budget, which eventually goes into pay rises for politicians, haven't you heard about all the pay rises they give themselves? That is what irate's some about the camera's, they play a very low role in road safety and present their own hazard aswell.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Absolutely! They raise heaps of $$.

Yes they do, but they claim their intention is to stop people from speeding. And where are these $$ going? Can't all be going to the Gungahlin Drive Extension.

They are not making people think, "Hey this might be dangerous", they make people think "Hey better not speed here, I'll just plant it down the road".

As much as I wouldn't appreciate being booked, I reckon more marked cars would be money better spent.

Speed cameras only catch those speeding, cops catch idiots breaking all sorts of laws.

Originally Posted by GTP006

I have slowed down over the years... might come with age. I do however notice that I am travelling slower and slower in areas where I know the vans hang out. I guess that is part of their aim?

I have calmed it down a bit. Funny that I don't drive my car as hard as what it was intended for as much as I thought I would.

[Bobman]

Agree with Mitchay's post.

More police on the roads would have a better effect on curbing some poor antics that we see everyday on the road's, especially from drug/alcohol driver's.

Speed camera's can't book you straight away, as has been argued many times, at least a police car would stop you then and there, rather than receive a fine 3 weeks later, if someone sped past, got caught and hit a tree up 20 minutes up the road, what exactly did the speed camera do to prevent this that a police car couldn't?

[JC]

Originally Posted by Bobman

GTP006:

You must be drunk to believe speed cameras play a crucial role in reducing the road toll across the country.

Funnily enough, you rarely see one in the country where most fatalities actually happen.

If even half the amount raised from fine revenue was placed in driver education, then it would not be as bad, but it isn't - it goes into the budget, which eventually goes into pay rises for politicians, haven't you heard about all the pay rises they give themselves? That is what irate's some about the camera's, they play a very low role in road safety and present their own hazard aswell.

Bobman, sorry, if he's drunk, then you must be stoned, but actually I don't think either of you is impaired.

Yes, the speed cameras in well advertised vans do work in the ACT. 0 fatalities over Xmas period here. Ok, the 2 aren't connected, but I can tell you that I now drive slower (still a bit over the posted limit though) in areas I know speed cameras set up. At the end of the day, if these speed cameras save even 1 life because people are made to pay more attention to what they are doing, then they are worthwhile. I can understand that in Vic, they may be seen as purely revenue raising because there are no warnings, but here in the ACT, the allowed locations are published - both in print and on the internet. So there's no excuse, apart from stupidity, for being caught speeding in the ACT by a roadside van.

The speed up slow down mitchay refers to does annoy me though - people have to learn that you can actually go past a van, or a police, at the posted speed limit - there is no need to slow down by 20km/h. But that is a driver education thing.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Agree with Mitchay's post.

More police on the roads would have a better effect on curbing some poor antics that we see everyday on the road's, especially from drug/alcohol driver's.

Speed camera's can't book you straight away, as has been argued many times, at least a police car would stop you then and there, rather than receive a fine 3 weeks later, if someone sped past, got caught and hit a tree up 20 minutes up the road, what exactly did the speed camera do to prevent this that a police car couldn't?

In the ACT, the vans are clearly visible, so they are a visual deterrant. There are about 8 vans, and around 50 known locations, so most people learn the locations and slow down around them, just in case the van is set up on that day .

It is nearly as effective as having extra patrols on the streets, and is certainly far more effective than the Vic police state of hidden cameras everywhere, where the scenario you descrive is a reality (booked without knowing etc etc).

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Bobman

GTP006:

You must be drunk to believe speed cameras play a crucial role in reducing the road toll across the country.

When did I say I believe they work?? (well they do work to an extent and I am an example of that) Marked cars is on the road booking people is obviously the most instant and effective method. A van only notifies you weeks after you were speeding.

Originally Posted by Bobman

Also, if the people who actually are stupid enough to become a speed camera operator (they should be well aware of the risks involved with this job by now) - if they don't like it, change careers.

This is the comment that made me think you were either drunk or a fool.

[Bobman]

JC,

Never been drunk or stoned actually

I understand where your coming from, hence my comments being more related to Victoria & I apologise for that, although in ACT there is a very small population, so like NT their road toll is relatively free of fatalities.

Here in Vic, there are often sneaky tactics used, some might think it's great, other's not, the fact is this does little to gain support from public because they are being used in this manner, hence repurcusions for operator's, fed up motorists have had enough, I can't say it's the correct behaviour, but if people didn't do the job, there wouldn't be as many camera's on the road (they get paid more than cab drivers, have better protection, while performing less of a public duty).

Even NSW has "Speed camera ahead" signs & people still get caught, no such luck here. Ever since Vic's speed cameras became privatised that's when most of the arguments began.

I agree if you get caught by a clearly visible van or even in NSW where they have signs & a marked police car on the side of the road, then you deserve to get booked, albeit the tolerance levels are not so harsh in other states compared to here?

We have too many distractions here in Vic which is a backwards approach in my opinion.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I agree if you get caught by a clearly visible van or even in NSW where they have signs & a marked police car on the side of the road, then you deserve to get booked, albeit the tolerance levels are not so harsh in other states compared to here?

So you don't deserve to get booked by an unmarked car??

Originally Posted by Bobman

We have too many distractions here in Vic which is a backwards approach in my opinion.

If there is som many distractions, wouldn't it be safer to slow down a little?

[MITCHAY]

I think people are generally unhappy about speed cameras, but the kicker is that the revenues raised don't seemingly get put back into the community.

Also how many of these detected offences would most deem dangerous or worthy of a fine? This is where a police officers descritionary powers are good thing to have.

Yes 64km/h is breaking the law in fine weather, but the person doing 80km/h not speeding in obviously hazardous weather conditions won't be noticed by a camera. Even if you just pull them up and suggest they take it a bit easier would be good.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Also how many of these detected offences would most deem dangerous or worthy of a fine?

Probably SFA.

[MITCHAY]

A good example of why cops are better is my first experience with them.

I got pulled up for 55 in a 40 zone. This was outside a college and at the time there were NO students around. Conditions were probably the best you could get

I was doing a speed that otherwise would of been deemed safe outside of school hours and it was genuine lapse in concentration.

Result a warning and nothing else. If it had of been a speed camera I would of been done for it for something so stupid as that.

Had he thrown the book at me I would of lumped it, but really in his eye it wasn't neccesary.

Was anyone really in any danger?

[JC]

Originally Posted by Bobman

JC,

Never been drunk or stoned actually

I understand where your coming from, hence my comments being more related to Victoria & I apologise for that, although in ACT there is a very small population, so like NT their road toll is relatively free of fatalities.

Here in Vic, there are often sneaky tactics used, some might think it's great, other's not, the fact is this does little to gain support from public because they are being used in this manner, hence repurcusions for operator's, fed up motorists have had enough, I can't say it's the correct behaviour, but if people didn't do the job, there wouldn't be as many camera's on the road (they get paid more than cab drivers, have better protection, while performing less of a public duty).

Even NSW has "Speed camera ahead" signs & people still get caught, no such luck here. Ever since Vic's speed cameras became privatised that's when most of the arguments began.

I agree if you get caught by a clearly visible van or even in NSW where they have signs & a marked police car on the side of the road, then you deserve to get booked, albeit the tolerance levels are not so harsh in other states compared to here?

We have too many distractions here in Vic which is a backwards approach in my opinion.

I think most would agree with you. For what it's worth, I think highly visible speed deterrants of any sort work. Whether that's speed cameras, police cars or even well marked and sign posted fixed speed and red light cameras.

The tactics and tolerance levels in Vic obviously don't work in saving lives - but they sure do work in revenue raising, and it seems that is all the Vic government is interested in. If they were serious about saving lives, they would raise the tolerance levels, let the traffic flow (thus reducing people's fristration levels) and go for the truly dangerous drivers (ie anyone with a P plate - j/k). By increasing the tolerance to what it is almost everywhere else in Oz (10% +1), and having highly visible speed cameras & vans, only the foolish will get caught seriously speeding (ie doing more than 10% over the posted limit in fine conditions). The road toll should improve as drivers can actually concentrate on how they are driving and take the time to lok at what's around them, rather than having to focus on the speedo for fear that an extra 1km'h will result in a ticket. Driving is not about doing the posted speed limit - it is so much more than that, but apparently the Vic government thinks it is the be all and end all.

[Bobman]

Great post JC, I agree.

GTP006, I generally don't have an issue with unmarked cars, as they have their place.

[exrtnz]

If you dont like marked or unmarked cars get a good radar detector. http://www.radardirect.co.nz/bel/bel.html These ones will do the trick

[HOON69]

anything related to police in any form is gunna be locked so i'll place my 2 cents in..


REVENUE RAISING SOB'S

only ones i have no sympathy for are the ones who deliberately hide to make a buck for the goverment etc

i think if they were in plain view and had the right agenda etc then these attacks wouldnt be as they are etc (not that i condone such behaviour)

its the ones who love to hide their gear to catch out ppl that makes us road users angry(though speedings is speeding and theres no excuse) doesnt mean they can bend their own rules/guidelines does it ;)

do the job right and fair and you might get the same respect back etc
my 2 cents live with it :P

[tickin]

I agree... while not saying speeding is a good thing... its wrong for them to "hide" to catch people!!!!!!!

[4Vman]

This stuff about them hiding is so rediculous.... are people that stupid that they need constant visual deterants to stop them from braking the law? What's next, armed guards out the front of every bank to stop the temptation of robbing it?
Unmarked police cars are no different to "hidden" speed camera's. The idea of hidden speed camera's is to deter people from speeding ANYWHERE..

If people stopped SPEEDING and being caught by speed camera's for GOING OVER THE SPEED LIMIT then they would cost the govt more money to operate and maintain then they make in revenue, they'd soon dissapear if they stopped catching people.
The operators aren't the problem, people who attack them are morons, if you really want to get the govt back then dont speed and contribute your hard earned to their revenue stream....

[HOON69]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This stuff about them hiding is so rediculous.... are people that stupid that they need constant visual deterants to stop them from braking the law? What's next, armed guards out the front of every bank to stop the temptation of robbing it?
Unmarked police cars are no different to "hidden" speed camera's. The idea of hidden speed camera's is to deter people from speeding ANYWHERE..

If people stopped SPEEDING and being caught by speed camera's for GOING OVER THE SPEED LIMIT then they would cost the govt more money to operate and maintain then they make in revenue, they'd soon dissapear if they stopped catching people.
The operators aren't the problem, people who attack them are morons, if you really want to get the govt back then dont speed and contribute your hard earned to their revenue stream....

DO YOU KNOW THE GUIDELINES and ROAD RULES?

how many illegally parked and hidden radars you think are out on the roads,right this instance?

and BTW most banks have security gaurds and for that exact reason so
:

the day speeding stops is the day we go to horses and karts its life,we live with it,we accept theres police presence but i'd prefer to be caught by a unmarked car patrolling then a stupid van hiding 5 metres into bush land in a illegally parked area..

i rest my case,we dont condone violence but dont tell me we dont deserve to be angry about the way "some operators"conduct themselves.

[Bobman]

Fairly funny, considering police cars speed even more so than the average citizen.

The amount of times you see a speeding police car (for no reason - yes I know what I'm talking about) is too high.

You get to work out their hiding spots, ie factory drive ways, park entrances etc etc, however on the up side, police *can* use discretion, camera operators deserve what they get, they know the rules and shouldn't be in the job in the first place.

Even if we don't speed, camera errors etc can often go un-noticed and do, unless a myriad of people complain, so you can still get caught and fined EVEN if your driving at the legal road limit.

[ORESUMSR]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

Bah the operators as as bad as the politicians pushing for revenue.

Just cause theyre foot soldiers dosnt mean they arent fair game.

While i probably wouldnt attack them physically, i like to give them a good shake of the fist and yell out obscenities.

Maybe when they come home at night they will have a think about why everybody hates them and reconsider their choice of profession.

They probably go home and laugh at all the loosers, that yell and scream abuse at them, and who got caught speeding.

[TZENU]

I really do love those camera operators and some police who sit at the bottom of a hill and catch those who aren't riding thier brakes.

E.g. Warrigal Road heading outbound between murrumbeena rd and chadstone rd..

some sit on the median strip whilst others stay parked on the u-turn lane

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by HOON69

DO YOU KNOW THE GUIDELINES and ROAD RULES?

how many illegally parked and hidden radars you think are out on the roads,right this instance?

I do know if you're more than 10% over the speed limit and go past a camera you'll get done. As for "illegal" positioned camera's well it only matters if you're speeding doesnt it!

Originally Posted by HOON69

we accept theres police presence but i'd prefer to be caught by a unmarked car patrolling then a stupid van hiding 5 metres into bush land in a illegally parked area..

i rest my case,we dont condone violence but dont tell me we dont deserve to be angry about the way "some operators"conduct themselves.

LOL the camera's wont work unless they're properly set-up parralel to the road and directly beside it. I dont know where you get your "5 meters in the bush" theory from.
Unless you're dealing with a camera operatior face to face (which should never happen) i don't know how you can question their conduct!