Air conditioning your house- advice needed! ?

[ebxr8240]

I live in outer west Sydney.. With 5.5 kw Hitachi ducted .
The front windows facing west have shrubs which I trim twice year..
With tint on windows ..
Two split systems work well also .. Depends on layout of house and where units can go both inside and out..
If it feels like a fridge TURN thermostat temp up.. In our place its 22* ..
Where people go wrong they think turning thermostat cold makes it more efficient..
One thing with split systems .. You can have a small one for your bedroom to run at night and not use much power running it..

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

swampys been useless here the last 15 days, 45 plus and high humidity, today it is like the Louisiana bayou's.

if you can afford it go reverse cycle ducted right through the house, swampy will do maybe 80% of the time but the other 20% is hell.

what's the go with a Swampy, they arnt somthing we see in Sydney, and I assume is due to the the RH, my sister lives in South west NSW and there are a few arround but I wouldnt say they are common place yet when I travel in WA, SA & VIC they are common as well you get the idea

At what point is a swampy not suitable?

just wondering if perhaps a combination od Swamp & splits might be a go, as in for the 80% Smurf talks about with the swampy then shut the windows and go RC split

is that something to consider or would that just be cost porhibative?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by mik

so what about upkeep on evaps, how much does that cost annually ??

Modern systems are pretty good, they have automatic dumps and salinity level monitors which keep the bowl reasonable clean due to the continual cycle.
Mine dumps a few litres hourly but Adelaide water is known for its higher salinity levels so not surprising.
Apart from that its only a pad flush and wipe over.
I received an annual service reminder just before Christmas for $120 if required.

They really are only a pump and fan, so apart from the occasional pump, there's not really any drama's.
In the 14 yrs of use I've had 1 warranty repair and that was on a newly installed unit which came with a faulty pump, it packed in on the first day it was used and was replaced the same day.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

what's the go with a Swampy, they arnt somthing we see in Sydney, and I assume is due to the the RH, my sister lives in South west NSW and there are a few arround but I wouldnt say they are common place yet when I travel in WA, SA & VIC they are common as well you get the idea

At what point is a swampy not suitable?

just wondering if perhaps a combination od Swamp & splits might be a go, as in for the 80% Smurf talks about with the swampy then shut the windows and go RC split

is that something to consider or would that just be cost porhibative?

look don't get me wrong, as I stated 80% of the time they are great in hot dry areas.

anywhere where there is humidity of any worth they just blow hot humid moist air around.

you will not see them up north or the top end of WA or QLD for that reason.

here they are pretty good but don't expect too much of them, they cool the air roughly 10 degrees, so a 40 degree day becomes 30 dependent on other factors........the larger the unit, the better they become.

we have ceiling fans as well as a split system for the mongrel days.

it is time to update the air-con in our house as well, so we are tossing up about updating our swampy head to a new braemar 550 using existing ducts at a cost of $2,000 or installing a whole new refridge system at a cost of $10,000.

I don't like the idea of being in a box that smells like a bears den after a day or two of running the refrigerated system so I prefer the swampy, but I also like to be cool.

running cost are about $600 per year for swampy to $1500 for refrigerated, dependent on usage and all sorts of factors.

bottom line .......swampy good in hot dry weather, not good in hot humid weather.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

what's the go with a Swampy, they arnt somthing we see in Sydney, and I assume is due to the the RH, my sister lives in South west NSW and there are a few arround but I wouldnt say they are common place yet when I travel in WA, SA & VIC they are common as well you get the idea

At what point is a swampy not suitable?

just wondering if perhaps a combination od Swamp & splits might be a go, as in for the 80% Smurf talks about with the swampy then shut the windows and go RC split

is that something to consider or would that just be cost porhibative?

I don't know about poppa, but my experience in Sydney was in late spring and through summer over a few years and the weather was quite often 2 seasons in one day.
Stinking hot all morning and into mid afternoon followed by a build up over the mountains and a down pour, then the sun breaks through and the evaporation and humidity it creates is ridiculous.
Its a by product of the geographical location.
As a relatively daily occurrence, this situation would suit a refrigerated unit simply because it would better regulate the space.

Having said that, there were plenty of days where a 'swampy' would have done.

Lets not forget, summer is only 25% of the year, a swampy's fan can be used to circulate air 365 days and always introduces fresh air, a refrigerated unit will only recycle stale air.

In the southern states, and as you said, south western NSW it is a dryer heat and extreme wether changes, although still possible as has been the case this week(43* Wednesday dry, 27* Thursday and 40mm rain), we rarely see them in a 24hr cycle.

WE just don't experience that type of weather.

I don't think it would be 80/20 to be honest, not where I live in SA, however, I believe Poppa lives in or near the Clare Valley so conditions there would be different hence the world class wine region.
I'd say it would be closer to 90/10 here and better in Geelong.

[ebxr8240]

I guess a swampy is much like a fan where it cool good if your in direct path.?.

[poppa smurf]

you'd be a few hundred Km's short if you looked for me in the clare valley, wish I was there sometimes.

a swampy is good most of the time, 80/20....... 90/10 probably closer, doesn't matter, but what happens is we get that humid rubbish from up north sweeping down every now and again, swampy will simply not handle that weather......thats a fact.......usually brings rain after a cyclone but along comes the humidity with it.

better than a fan but sometimes when the humidity is high we switch the water off and just use the fan.......when it gets real bad we switch to the split.

a lot of positives with a swampy, no smell, you can cook with it on, someone farts it doesn't just keep getting recycled, fresh air all the time lovely cool breeze most of the time, service and parts are simple and cheap......and to be truthful very few negatives, but the negatives that are present are large and should not be honestly swept aside.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

The discussion about relative humidity is an interesting one.

For example, it appears to me that most people on here are assuming that Sydney would have a higher RH than Melb, for example.

Well, when I was looking at installing a cooling system in my house, I did a bit of research prior to deciding on which way to go. And, when I came across this data, I was as surprised as I suspect a few on here will be http://www.bom.gov.au/watl/humidity/

With respect to sleeping with air conditioning, personally it is something that I cannot stand. I would rather have a warmer natural environ than a cooler unnatural one. As an example, when my mum, my sister and I traveled to Malaysia a couple of years back, my sister insisted on having the air con every night. I would much rather have slept with the windows and doors open, even though it would have been warmer. But i guess that is just a personal preference.

Craig H

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by zilo

Evaps will give you a smaller cooling differential than a refrig system.

When it's 45 here in Melbourne, the only system that can cool to 21 is a refrigerated system.

An evap will get it down from 45 to about 35-36...but...nah

That's too bloody hot for me when trying to sleep, I need 21-22


Maybe the OP can evap the house and have a small split system in the main bedroom etc?

Poppycock,! I live up on the Murray river and we've had a heap of over 40s this summer, my evap has only struggled on 1 really humid day(27 and quite damp in the house), the rest of those 40+ days it has not been over 26 degrees during the day in my house. At night, The unit has an automatic setup and usually turns itself off by about midnight.

[naddis01]

This thread reminds me of many tyre threads. Everyone has an opinion and are quite strong either way and really there is no real right or wrong answer.

I will say though, there appears to be quite a few that dont know how to turn an air conditioner down. They don't have to be run flat out all the time.

[Ford_The_Win]

Evaporative is a compromise and its up to you whether or not you're prepared to make that compromise. They are really cheap to run and maintain but they never work as well as a refrigerated unit. In certain weather conditions they don't work at all. I chose refrigerated because it *always* works and I don't mind paying for that.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by velvet

Poppycock,! I live up on the Murray river and we've had a heap of over 40s this summer, my evap has only struggled on 1 really humid day(27 and quite damp in the house), the rest of those 40+ days it has not been over 26 degrees during the day in my house. At night, The unit has an automatic setup and usually turns itself off by about midnight.

Almost zero humidity where you are, regardless of the one humid day you had recently.

sorry...povvo pack evap coolers are for the birds in most parts of australia.

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by zilo

Almost zero humidity where you are, regardless of the one humid day you had recently.

sorry...povvo pack evap coolers are for the birds in most parts of australia.

Not in melbourne
Mines on right now .... Very comfy

By all means those of you that want to juice up your house with 3 phase power and run refrigerated units in areas where evap coolers will do the job, go right ahead
I'd rather spend that extra money on my CAR than on excessive electricity bills

[RANGEREST]

I reckon most people that dislike the evaporative coolers have not sampled a newer generation of cooler. Our old one was rubbish,(too small for the house and straw batts), but the newer ones with different paper/cardboard? are so much better.

[aussiblue]

I have an 11 outlet ducted Breeze air evaporative that we had installed some 30 years ago. It is a 2 speed commercial unit and works fine in even humid weather though on the high speed it's like having a cyclone blowing through the house. We use the low speed the rest of the time.

The installer stuffed up and created:
a) a leak in our tile roof that ruined a ceiling;
b) an unsupported drain line from the unit to the gutter that broke and created another ceiling destroying leak.


So go for the evap but:

a) if possible over spec the capacity (engine power and throughput) so you can deal with humid days; (retailers will often under spec to get the lowest price; go up a model or two)

b) for the above reasons doing it again I would consider having a fibreglass or copper leak tray fitted under the roof unit as required in some US states.;

c) with any system (refrigerated or evaporative the standard foil covered ducts fall apart over time) so if you intend staying over 10 years and budget can stretch to it, get the semi rigid ducts (like http://www.bjcenterprises.com.au/pro...igid_duct.html ) this also gives fireproof ducts and the option of fitting gas heating to your evaporative system later (http://www.braemar.com.au/braemar-co...rative-cooling etc)

d) Choose a very experienced installer; not necessarily who the retailer wants you to use. Ours as it turned out had never fitted a commercial unit before.

The added bonus of evap is that, unlike refrigerated that dries the air, it keeps the air moist which is good for those prone to hay fever and similar allergies. It stops the clogged sinuses and sneezing.

[aussiblue]

Whatever you get you'll never regret having more cooling or airflow capacity then they tell you you'll need especially if you have controls that can turn it down for when you don't need it and on those extremely hot or humid days when you will use it; but you'll always regret having too little and that can only be fixed with total replacement.

[EDManual]

That ducted gas central heating with evaporative though the same vents sounds like a good idea! Didnt know there was that option! Wonder what its worth? (the evap info in the link though still seems to say seperate ducts?)

Thanks for all the coments! I'm now leaning futher towards Evap (oversized).

With the ducted heating i'm going to up spec it to zoned so can heat upstairs or downstairs, so will get a price on the Evap attachement.

[aussiblue]

Another gas heat evap cooling system here. http://www.aira.com.au/evaporative

[aussiblue]

Smalls used to offer a conversion system to add gas hearting to existing evap but they seem to have gone out of business.

[mik]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

look don't get me wrong, as I stated 80% of the time they are great in hot dry areas.

anywhere where there is humidity of any worth they just blow hot humid moist air around.

you will not see them up north or the top end of WA or QLD for that reason.

here they are pretty good but don't expect too much of them, they cool the air roughly 10 degrees, so a 40 degree day becomes 30 dependent on other factors........the larger the unit, the better they become.

we have ceiling fans as well as a split system for the mongrel days.

it is time to update the air-con in our house as well, so we are tossing up about updating our swampy head to a new braemar 550 using existing ducts at a cost of $2,000 or installing a whole new refridge system at a cost of $10,000.

I don't like the idea of being in a box that smells like a bears den after a day or two of running the refrigerated system so I prefer the swampy, but I also like to be cool.

running cost are about $600 per year for swampy to $1500 for refrigerated, dependent on usage and all sorts of factors.

bottom line .......swampy good in hot dry weather, not good in hot humid weather.

just picking up on your comment on the refrigerated ac smelling like a bears den comment.

my old 15+ year old panasonic box ac used to get that mouldy smell momentarily on start up on occasion, (probably my fault as it was never serviced or cleaned in its life), however the current big invertor panasonic ac we have has none of this,
i noticed when i bought the unit home and inspected it,
it had a very good drainage system to get rid of the water, it also has nice easy access ,easy to clean dust filter set up, no coughing sneezing or smells with this unit.

[EgoFG]

Just skimming ....

I have 3phase rc ducted in a house about the same size in Sydney's Macarthur region.

My comments are

1) overspec, do not underspec ! (we have 20kw rc ducted)
2) if you have solar on a NET Feed In Tariff (or will) then get an inverter model.
Inverters level out the consumption, rather than having extreme peaks when it is cut in.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by mik

just picking up on your comment on the refrigerated ac smelling like a bears den comment.

my old 15+ year old panasonic box ac used to get that mouldy smell momentarily on start up on occasion, (probably my fault as it was never serviced or cleaned in its life), however the current big invertor panasonic ac we have has none of this,
i noticed when i bought the unit home and inspected it,
it had a very good drainage system to get rid of the water, it also has nice easy access ,easy to clean dust filter set up, no coughing sneezing or smells with this unit.

we have a youngster still living at home, I don't know what it is but his breath is terrible of a morning, this goes into the air-con intake and just goes round and round, takes a good 2 hours of clean air, with the house open going through it to get the smell back out and for it to smell better.

I've been to houses that don't do this, makes me want to vomit with the smell build up.

the problem is not with the water nor the intake filter but the cold radiator itself, (whatever it's called) moisture builds and attracts particulates (smell, bacteria other stuff)......this needs to be dried and aired out.