Dodgy Dyno Operators at EasterNats - Page 2

SSbaby · 27-03-2005, 04:04 PM

I got a dyno sheet from the same tuner where geea has his car tuned... 267 rwkw.

Just the other week at the F1 performance day, my reading was 245 rwkw.

Do I read anthing into it... not really other than to say I know intimately what sort of tune I got and what my latest tune is doing for me at the present. Let's just say I'm happier now.

Hammer · 27-03-2005, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmax

Maybe the problem is not that the Dyno (not designed to measure definitive HP) which is designed for comparative testing and can be only be used for indicative HP only. Maybe the problem is that a Dyno can be influenced by so many uncontrollable factors on the day, eg weather/humidity that if you go back again tommorrow on the same dyno, you may get 20HP more. Maybe the problem is the fact that the dyno, any dyno can't give you the the definitve result you want. Maybe your car doesn't have quite as much power as you assumed and other factors such as traction control, driver skill etc allows you to get good 1/4 mile times.
Maybe you should stop arguing about it and figure out what to do to get better eta's instead of stressing over HP figures. A local bus can produce higher HP than your car but who gives a rat's because at the end of the day, it's the eta that is a true measure of the cars performance.

With all that said, I don't mean to **** any one off, but it's just not worth the stress or agro, just get out there and punch it.

There are established correction factors for achieving the same result IRRELEVANT of weather conditions. If there weren't, then development would be impossible.
Do you think that every time a race team tries a new part on the Dyno they go "well it makes more power, but it might just be the weather."
A Dyno is a scientific measuring tool, and it CAN give a definitive answer if it's built & used properly.
Traction control and Driver skill cannot change the fact that it takes a certain amount of power to push a given weight of car over the quarter in a given amount of time. If the car is losing traction, or badly driven - then it will take more power to achieve the same time, but it can't be done with less power and more skill.

Mr. CVE · 27-03-2005, 06:01 PM

without getting in to it all, and I am not sticking up for Mike.
remember he is the one operating the dyno, that is all, he didn't build it. maybe you should have spoke to the manufacturer of the dyno who was there.
It was not a dyno dynamics dyno so it doesn't have 'shootout' mode.
Yes i agree the figures were weird, but at the end of the day we were all running on the same dyno. so it is not that important.
as long as you beat the next guy on the same dyno on the same day it doesn'ty really matter.

EFFalcon · 27-03-2005, 06:02 PM

I don't see why they use that dyno.
After today i can't see it being that accurate.
to point it simply... V8 Capri's BA Ghia 220 V8 Auto was on the dyno today.
with a final reading or 227fwkw for a BA with Cat back exhaust and air straight into the t/b, i think its reading out.
this same car has pulled ~187ish rwkw on a dyno dynamics dyno.
trying to measure fwkw on a chassis dyno is stupid

the dyno does the calculations by running the car upto 95km/h then the car is put into neutral and waits till it hits 0.
does this twice before the dyno run.. seems odd

geea, I've seen ur car around easternats a fair bit, certainly looks nice with the twin tips ;)

eb six on boost · 27-03-2005, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

I don't see why they use that dyno.
After today i can't see it being that accurate.
to point it simply... V8 Capri's BA Ghia 220 V8 Auto was on the dyno today.
with a final reading or 227fwkw for a BA with Cat back exhaust and air straight into the t/b, i think its reading out.
this same car has pulled ~187ish rwkw on a dyno dynamics dyno.
trying to measure fwkw on a chassis dyno is stupid

the dyno does the calculations by running the car upto 95km/h then the car is put into neutral and waits till it hits 0.
does this twice before the dyno run.. seems odd

geea, I've seen ur car around easternats a fair bit, certainly looks nice with the twin tips ;)

exactly, so if your hand brake drags a little..............

Mr. CVE · 27-03-2005, 06:38 PM

[QUOTE=EFFalcon]I don't see why they use that dyno.
After today i can't see it being that accurate.
to point it simply... V8 Capri's BA Ghia 220 V8 Auto was on the dyno today.
with a final reading or 227fwkw for a BA with Cat back exhaust and air straight into the t/b, i think its reading out.
this same car has pulled ~187ish rwkw on a dyno dynamics dyno.
trying to measure fwkw on a chassis dyno is stupid

actually it only really made 216 fw kw !!

and i know from stock it has picked up over 15 rw kw !!
but i wasn't gonna use my car as an example !! this arguement doesn't need any more ammo !!

EFFalcon · 27-03-2005, 07:03 PM

hahahah
well 227fwkw must have been ur 2nd run?
either way thats VERY innacurate.

geea · 27-03-2005, 07:14 PM

Mike the operator actually told me that it was very acurate for the manuals but not so with the auto's due to the torque convertors. He also said that a higher stall would make it even less acurate. After telling me all this i asked if he thought i had an acurate reading and he still said yes.

Bloody Idiot.

EFFalcon · 27-03-2005, 07:25 PM

its fairly safe to say the auto's were at a bit of a disadvantage on that dyno.
rwkw would make a lot more sense, atleast then it really can't be disputed!

BJ · 27-03-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geea

Mike the operator actually told me that it was very acurate for the manuals but not so with the auto's due to the torque convertors. He also said that a higher stall would make it even less acurate. After telling me all this i asked if he thought i had an acurate reading and he still said yes.

Bloody Idiot.

What confuses me is that you must have already now what kws your car had so why do it at and event like that any way. Did you feel that you had to prove your self to some one? or was it just to support the event. I spoke to some other people today and they all had there cars done and none of them felt that at anytime did they feel that there was any probblem with the way things where done. I am not in anyway saying that what you are saying is not right but when they do dozens of cars and there are three operaters who knows what can happen. All I know is that from my own experiences I have never had any trouble at all from Mike dyno tuning.

27-03-2005, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH7472

What confuses me is that you must have already now what kws your car had so why do it at and event like that any way. Did you feel that you had to prove your self so some one? or was it just to support the event.

It was a dyno comp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geea

I was hoping to do ok in the dyno comp but the car didn't read very high.

BJ · 27-03-2005, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RATT

It was a dyno comp.

I realise that. But when you enter one of those you must be prepeared to win or lose and if you lose do it with out fuss.Thats not to say that we wouldnt all like to be winners but thats life. Take what you learnt and go with that. If you didnt get the result you whanted well dont enter again. I have been a concourse judge for 15 odd years and let me tell you every car i judge should have one going by the owner but the fact is some cars are not as good as others.

SpoolMan · 27-03-2005, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH7472

I realise that. But when you enter one of those you must be prepeared to win or lose and if you lose do it with out fuss.

I can understand that, but if we must deal with facts...and the facts don’t add up....in this case the facts are not a minimal amount out there out by a huge amount, there are so far out that it deifies all logic and any conversion or calculator you want to use...cant the Dyno operator get it wrong make a mistake we are all human...
Time never lies... look the ET's and his MPH wich has been backed up 11.5 & 11.6..you cant do these ET's on the fwkw he was given on this Dyno day...

SSbaby · 27-03-2005, 11:00 PM

Yes but don't the autos get their torque converters locked down to give consistency? I'm not an auto pilot but I hear that's what dyno operators do to get the best results from the auto.

strife · 28-03-2005, 08:43 AM

I wouldnt be to concerned about it geea,

By your description and from past events I think they use a DTS dyno at easternats ?
http://www.dtsdyno.com/

ea ba turbo · 02-04-2005, 02:28 AM

***edited by laminge**** it is a dyno shoot out...if u choose to run an auto more fool u...all the top dyno comp cars are, if u have a look manual for one very good reason.... all cars are measured on the day all in the same way... level playing field for all.... TALK about sour grapes...

if u want to win a shootout build your car to do it!!!!!!!!!!!!

xdc351 · 02-04-2005, 02:37 AM

Mate, aside from the last line there, I can't understand a single thing you wrote. To quote Lisa Simpson "I know those words, but that sentence makes no sense".

Please try writing enough to explain yourself... its a chat board, not an SMS message.

ea ba turbo · 02-04-2005, 02:44 AM

if u had bothered to read any of the messages on this board u might have a clue to what is being said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just because one guy is not happy with his results....

xdc351 · 02-04-2005, 02:47 AM

Actually if you read the thread properly you would have seen my reply earlier.

I wasn't talking about what you were saying, just that I couldn't understand it.

shane3 · 02-04-2005, 09:12 AM

Every dyno will be different! just like the FPV GT's some produce 225RWKW and some have 245RWKW, they are all different, I say use one dyno and one dyno only - I use the guys at Hallam performance and know that any reading will be accurate in respect to my car and what it can do and has done, no point running all over town looking for a dyno that will give false readings to increase your RWKS!

LTDHO · 02-04-2005, 09:50 AM

I drove my car to the dyno expecting 400 at the wheels.
I left with 396 after the belt came off. That's pretty close! But mine is a manual too!

The question is 'Why use a dyno that guessimates a figure?'

No dyno is 100% accurate, this is a fact. But same day and conditions makes the comparision more realistic. Once you start puting in a calculation thatvaries between cars that thows any comparision out the window. But these dyno's are great for W@NK value as the figure will be higher than standard. This has no place in competition.

I hope the organisers and promotors of Easternats realise theis and measure power in rear wheel next year.

BTW, Mike is the opperator not the dyno.

geea · 02-04-2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea ba turbo

u bunch of incompentent stooges...... it is a dyno shoot out...if u choose to run an auto more fool u...all the top dyno comp cars are, if u have a look manual for one very good reason.... all cars are measured on the day all in the same way... level playing field for all.... TALK about sour grapes...

if u want to win a shootout build your car to do it!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you'd like to have a chat about this in person i'm more than happy to drive down to Aspendale Gardens and do just that. If you want to start calling people names do a bit of reseach first.

Now assuming you can read.

A dyno shootout should be a competition where cars are run up on a dyno to see which has the most power. Whether the car is auto or manual shouldn't matter. A good dyno and operator is able to get accurate reading from both so that the cars run up on the same day can compare figures. Obviously this concept is beyond your limited intelligence.
At the EasterNats the operator informed me that his dyno wasn't real accurate with some auto's. I've been to many dyno days and never had this problem before. I wouldn't have really minded what my car read aslong as it was the same for everyone. When i get 100fwkw's less than i know the car has, whilst most cars are getting what they expect, then i'm unhappy. No doubt if it was you, you wouldn't have had a problem. Then again how many rwkw's has your push bike got. They couldn't really get the reading too wrong could they.

Brute33 · 02-04-2005, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geea

If you'd like to have a chat about this in person i'm more than happy to drive down to Aspendale Gardens and do just that. If you want to start calling people names do a bit of reseach first.

Now assuming you can read.

A dyno shootout should be a competition where cars are run up on a dyno to see which has the most power. Whether the car is auto or manual shouldn't matter. A good dyno and operator is able to get accurate reading from both so that the cars run up on the same day can compare figures. Obviously this concept is beyond your limited intelligence.
At the EasterNats the operator informed me that his dyno wasn't real accurate with some auto's. I've been to many dyno days and never had this problem before. I wouldn't have really minded what my car read aslong as it was the same for everyone. When i get 100fwkw's less than i know the car has, whilst most cars are getting what they expect, then i'm unhappy. No doubt if it was you, you wouldn't have had a problem. Then again how many rwkw's has your push bike got. They couldn't really get the reading too wrong could they.

He's jealous of your numbers . Ignore him

BJ · 02-04-2005, 05:26 PM

People lets sit back take a deep breath and look at what is going on. Is it realy worth all of this agro over an event that happend a coupel of weeks ago come on. We have all had our say lets sleeping dogs lie.

EFFalcon · 02-04-2005, 06:02 PM

I don't beleive it is that.
To put it simply, that dyno 'assumes' an auto looses LESS then a manual.
which we ALLLL know isnt the case.
LTDHO's car pulled what was effectively '396 flywheel kw'
his car has previously managed 340rwkw...
so yeah 50kw loss through the drive train (its a manual), sounds fair accounting for the car maybe running slightly better on this occasion.

geea's car, which has approx 328rwkw... and 'apparently' 339 fly wheel kw.. and managed to only lose 10kw through the drivetrain (its an auto)? 50kw vs 10kw is a MASSIVE difference.
further add to that the fact that the dyno operator 'admitted' to it being not so accurate for autos... how can this be denied.

its simply worth saying, why not run on a dynodynamics dyno and use RWKW... driveline losses shoudln't be taken into consideration!

SpoolMan · 02-04-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea ba turbo

once again just sour grapes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geea was just questioning how this dyno operator got that number for his car, the numbers didn’t add up...
Everyone needs to relax a little and move on.

Mr. CVE · 02-04-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH7472

People lets sit back take a deep breath and look at what is going on. Is it realy worth all of this agro over an event that happend a coupel of weeks ago come on. We have all had our say lets sleeping dogs lie.

I agree, lets leave this be..... untill the next dyno day !!

_

EFFalcon · 02-04-2005, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8capri

I agree, lets leave this be..... untill the next dyno day !!

_

Hahaha, u mean the one u might actually have a chance of winning? :P

Laminge · 02-04-2005, 06:17 PM

I wont tollerate this abuse, first and final warning, the posts have been edited!

flukeyluke · 03-04-2005, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geea

Then again how many rwkw's has your push bike got. They couldn't really get the reading too wrong could they.

LOL Geea. Dont worry about it. I understand your frustrated with the results you got but the times and MPH you run support your claim.
I've been at a Dyno day and saw Geea's car nearly launch itself into the crowd.
In a heavy car like a BA you dont run 11.5 without serious kw's.