Fiesta to be axed after 46 years. - Page 2

**DFB FGXR6** · 01-11-2022, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-c...popular-models

Was an article from October so things may have changed, but its pretty obvious Puma is Ford's "new" Fiesta, in the UK at least. Evolution of the car, people want better visibility and better usability of interior space. The Puma is exactly that, and to be fair, it does not compromise the handling or power of the Fiesta, I've driven many and they are an absolute cracker of a car. Ford need to pull their finger out here and really give Puma the attention it deserves, there is no need for Ford to just be selling Ranger, Everest and Mustang here, we need a numbers car!

Agreed! I had a Puma as a long car and was pleasantly surprised at how agile it was.

I hate SUV's in general and understand the compromises that are made in weight, chassis and fuel economy compared to an equivalent passenger car. However, the Puma's compromises are minimal, the chassis is great, the little engine has decent torque and a nice little note.

barra240t · 02-11-2022, 10:26 AM

I'm truly interested to know why Puma isn't doing as well as it should. I believe the top sellers in its segment are:

MG ZS- cheap
Hyundai Venue/Kon- cheapish
Mazda CX3- established

Yes, Puma core model is a little high in price but you do start off with the Ecoboost turbo engine, auto trans and a lot of features, its almost a mid spec and not base. Would be interested in other feedback!

**Polyal** · 02-11-2022, 10:38 AM

Whats the price difference? Im sure I saw demo or near new for mid 20's before I brought the accord.

The Puma would have been the smart daily choice, but I am a bogan.

Franco Cozzo · 02-11-2022, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

I'm truly interested to know why Puma isn't doing as well as it should. I believe the top sellers in its segment are:

MG ZS- cheap
Hyundai Venue/Kon- cheapish
Mazda CX3- established

Yes, Puma core model is a little high in price but you do start off with the Ecoboost turbo engine, auto trans and a lot of features, its almost a mid spec and not base. Would be interested in other feedback!

Remember the powershift fiasco?

Was looking at Puma last night, saw 7sp DCT and that put it right off the list.

barra240t · 02-11-2022, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Remember the powershift fiasco?

Was looking at Puma last night, saw 7sp DCT and that put it right off the list.

Fiasco was on dry DCT only, Ford was using wet DCT in other models at the same time as the height of powershift drama and have had no issues with anything in relation to wet clutch DCT.

The Puma only uses wet DCT. I can tell you it does not drive let the old dry clutch at all and in sports mode it is super responsive on paddle change.

This tells me sales are not educating the public, thank you for your input!

**Polyal** · 02-11-2022, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

Fiasco was on dry DCT only, Ford was using wet DCT in other models at the same time as the height of powershift drama and have had no issues with anything in relation to wet clutch DCT.

The Puma only uses wet DCT. I can tell you it does not drive let the old dry clutch at all and in sports mode it is super responsive on paddle change.

This tells me sales are not educating the public, thank you for your input!

I was the same to be honest and its the first thing I tell anyone who asks me about any automatics in recent small Fords. Just steer clear.

Obviously I am not 100% up to date but its how I would approach it. If Ford nerds on a forum are confused, then the general public has no hope.

Its a marketing issue, they need to rename them ASAP even if it's the same thing (or not).

jpd80 · 02-11-2022, 01:36 PM

Ford stopped using dry clutch DCT in 2015 when Focus switched to 1.6 EB and Fiesta changed to 1.0 EB
I feel sorry for those that got caught up in Powershift but the people post 2015 had much better vehicles
that didn’t deserve the stigma of the earlier vehicles….definitely hurt their resale values.

**FTE217** · 02-11-2022, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

Fiasco was on dry DCT only, Ford was using wet DCT in other models at the same time as the height of powershift drama and have had no issues with anything in relation to wet clutch DCT.

The Puma only uses wet DCT. I can tell you it does not drive let the old dry clutch at all and in sports mode it is super responsive on paddle change.

This tells me sales are not educating the public, thank you for your input!

barra, yep the powers above need to get onto marketing to spread the word alot more these late gen models are better than in the past.
Puma is a rippa daily the wife likes them and the size.
Course of conversation last night with the daughter inlaw who is a Block watcher saying how damn nice the Everest looks.
The gen public won't to Ford but opted for Mazda and other suspects first.
They need to make more noise out there - get more people in, they need to drive a demo that under current stock circumstances is the prob I suspect.

hackney · 02-11-2022, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford stopped using dry clutch DCT in 2015 when Focus switched to 1.6 EB and Fiesta changed to 1.0 EB
I feel sorry for those that got caught up in Powershift but the people post 2015 had much better vehicles
that didn’t deserve the stigma of the earlier vehicles….definitely hurt their resale values.

Puma has very little issues.DCT is now fine.

Bossxr8 · 02-11-2022, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Remember the powershift fiasco?

Was looking at Puma last night, saw 7sp DCT and that put it right off the list.

I doubt many people buying the Puma even know what type of trans it is. It's not tarnished with the stigma like Focus was.

barra240t · 02-11-2022, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I doubt many people buying the Puma even know what type of trans it is. It's not tarnished with the stigma like Focus was.

I agree, I don't think Puma buyers really have any idea of the transmission or the past issues Ford had with a completely different DCT.

I think their main issue is getting "Ford" onto the shopping list, very frustrating considering how well Puma scores is all reviews they are in. I spose you can talk about how good a car is until you're blue in the face but without actually getting bums on seats how are you supposed to sell them?

Franco Cozzo · 02-11-2022, 04:03 PM

Oh I know its not the dry clutch DCT that is used in the Puma,

I'm not trusting Ford with a DCT though, any car manufacturer actually - I think they're only suited to exotic cars, how can you have a $15,000+ gearbox in a car that costs $32K? There has to be some form of cost cutting going on there in the manufacture of those things, dry or wet clutch regardless.

I don't think they're really suited to commuter cars, they don't go the distance, they don't like driving in traffic - slushbox is king I reckon, tried, proven & tough.

As far as the wet clutch DCT boxes not having issues, Yellow Festiva here can tell you a good story about the wet clutch DCT box in his LV TDCI Focus that **** the bed real early.

The damage to the Ford brand is what happened with their powershift clownshow, customer doesn't care or know what transmission the Puma has, they know it has a Ford badge on it though

The only reputable model they have is the Ranger (and a lesser degree the Everest as its a Ranger with a longer roof), its the private owner king of the Thailand Specials.

**DJM83** · 02-11-2022, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

Yep, was around them new as well as that generation of XR5 Turbo, was fun times, the 2.0 was still underpowered for that gen of Fiesta's chassis, would have been able to cop a lot more power still, the 2.0 was very happy to rev right out to redline and did it without any harshness at all.

The XR4/XR5T were the pinnacle of euro fast fords in this country imo, the later Fiesta ST/Focus ST were a mere blot after that. Good, but not as good.

barra240t · 02-11-2022, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Oh I know its not the dry clutch DCT that is used in the Puma,

I'm not trusting Ford with a DCT though, any car manufacturer actually - I think they're only suited to exotic cars, how can you have a $15,000+ gearbox in a car that costs $32K? There has to be some form of cost cutting going on there in the manufacture of those things, dry or wet clutch regardless.

I don't think they're really suited to commuter cars, they don't go the distance, they don't like driving in traffic - slushbox is king I reckon, tried, proven & tough.

As far as the wet clutch DCT boxes not having issues, Yellow Festiva here can tell you a good story about the wet clutch DCT box in his LV TDCI Focus that **** the bed real early.

The damage to the Ford brand is what happened with their powershift clownshow, customer doesn't care or know what transmission the Puma has, they know it has a Ford badge on it though

The only reputable model they have is the Ranger (and a lesser degree the Everest as its a Ranger with a longer roof), its the private owner king of the Thailand Specials.

All manufacturers have made mistakes, unfortunate events

VW = dieselgate
Toyota = dieselgate II

I don't think you can blame the badge, look at all those VW's and Toyota's on the road..

hackney · 02-11-2022, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

All manufacturers have made mistakes, unfortunate events

VW = dieselgate
Toyota = dieselgate II

I don't think you can blame the badge, look at all those VW's and Toyota's on the road..

Correct.All manufacturers have their issues, whether minor OR major. Ford are certainly not alone in that area.

**DFB FGXR6** · 02-11-2022, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

I'm truly interested to know why Puma isn't doing as well as it should. I believe the top sellers in its segment are:

MG ZS- cheap
Hyundai Venue/Kon- cheapish
Mazda CX3- established

Yes, Puma core model is a little high in price but you do start off with the Ecoboost turbo engine, auto trans and a lot of features, its almost a mid spec and not base. Would be interested in other feedback!

The high price of entry is a factor, even though most buyers end up spending that anyway.

Supply of the euro Ford's has been a drip feed over the last three years. The Puma is a great car, but how many people shopping in that segment are going to wait 10-12 months for an entry level SUV. Walk into an MG, Hyundai or Mazda dealer and they have stock, ready to go. Guess which option people end up settling on?

Bossxr8 · 03-11-2022, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The high price of entry is a factor, even though most buyers end up spending that anyway.

Supply of the euro Ford's has been a drip feed over the last three years. The Puma is a great car, but how many people shopping in that segment are going to wait 10-12 months for an entry level SUV. Walk into an MG, Hyundai or Mazda dealer and they have stock, ready to go. Guess which option people end up settling on?

MG maybe, but Hyundai and Mazda, among most manufacturers, have long waiting lists for certain models. There are very few brands that don't have long waits on at least half their range.

hackney · 03-11-2022, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

MG maybe, but Hyundai and Mazda, among most manufacturers, have long waiting lists for certain models. There are very few brands that don't have long waits on at least half their range.

Even my new Honda HRV Hybrid is now out to 10 months & beyond.I was one of the very first & lucky ones to get mine so quick.

**FTE217** · 03-11-2022, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The high price of entry is a factor, even though most buyers end up spending that anyway.

Supply of the euro Ford's has been a drip feed over the last three years. The Puma is a great car, but how many people shopping in that segment are going to wait 10-12 months for an entry level SUV. Walk into an MG, Hyundai or Mazda dealer and they have stock, ready to go. Guess which option people end up settling on?

good point is the entry level price, plus Ford has been on the nose to joe average and soccer mum forever.
TBH its hardly been a go to brand for a long long time, thats the challenge Ford has.

MG have/had the same supply probs DFB, my son was looking to get one little time back, I went with him for the test drive, told him forget it BUT becuase of the price he was really keen.
Thankgoodness stock/wait was the issue.

Shipping doesn't favour X brand, they are all in the same boat pardon the pun, wait lists.
What is sad, people will wait over a year whereas there could be a Puma on hand to buy now for the movements are slow.
barra matter of interest - what are the numbers available nationally for curiousity's sake ?

barra240t · 03-11-2022, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The high price of entry is a factor, even though most buyers end up spending that anyway.

Supply of the euro Ford's has been a drip feed over the last three years. The Puma is a great car, but how many people shopping in that segment are going to wait 10-12 months for an entry level SUV. Walk into an MG, Hyundai or Mazda dealer and they have stock, ready to go. Guess which option people end up settling on?

Could find you a core/ST-Line or V right now.

barra240t · 03-11-2022, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

barra matter of interest - what are the numbers available nationally for curiousity's sake ?

I couldn't tell you nationally but as far as my holding, plenty, however, each dealer treats a model differently, we fully support Puma and want to sell more.

Franco Cozzo · 03-11-2022, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

I couldn't tell you nationally but as far as my holding, plenty, however, each dealer treats a model differently, we fully support Puma and want to sell more.

Thats interesting, this is what I was greeted with at the Ford dealership we've bought two of our cars from:

You'd think they only had two models, inside the dealership was the same.

Its like an Isuzu ute dealership - only has two cars.

One imagines your dealership has a different selection of Ford's range - is this a case where this particular dealership has decided to range only Ranger/Everest?

kevino · 03-11-2022, 02:57 PM

The Gold Coast Ford dealer is the same.
Once on a blue moon add a Transit or a Mustang.
Ford have anything you want providing it’s a Ranger or Everest

**Polyal** · 03-11-2022, 03:16 PM

^^both those last posts are pretty telling

barra240t · 03-11-2022, 03:17 PM

Not here.

**DFB FGXR6** · 03-11-2022, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Thats interesting, this is what I was greeted with at the Ford dealership we've bought two of our cars from:

image

You'd think they only had two models, inside the dealership was the same.

Its like an Isuzu ute dealership - only has two cars.

One imagines your dealership has a different selection of Ford's range - is this a case where this particular dealership has decided to range only Ranger/Everest?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

good point is the entry level price, plus Ford has been on the nose to joe average and soccer mum forever.
TBH its hardly been a go to brand for a long long time, thats the challenge Ford has.

MG have/had the same supply probs DFB, my son was looking to get one little time back, I went with him for the test drive, told him forget it BUT becuase of the price he was really keen.
Thankgoodness stock/wait was the issue.

Shipping doesn't favour X brand, they are all in the same boat pardon the pun, wait lists.
What is sad, people will wait over a year whereas there could be a Puma on hand to buy now for the movements are slow.
barra matter of interest - what are the numbers available nationally for curiousity's sake ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

Could find you a core/ST-Line or V right now.

Thats interesting, I was under the impression Puma was supply limited. Just shoes how on the nose Ford is outside of Ranger, Everest and Mustang.

Like Franco, my local dealer only stocks Ranger and Everest. Perhaps it's a regional/rural location thing?

**DFB FGXR6** · 03-11-2022, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

Could find you a core/ST-Line or V right now.

ST-Line in red please.................

Franco Cozzo · 03-11-2022, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

image
image
image
image
image

Not here.

Thats a breath of fresh air, they had me fooled because all I've seen seeing is Ranger/Everest.

kevino · 04-11-2022, 07:49 AM

Franco
You are weakening
1 Puma is still an SUV
2 Puma is only auto ...no manuals
3 its a DCT

Now just settle down.

hackney · 04-11-2022, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevino

Franco
You are weakening
1 Puma is still an SUV
2 Puma is only auto ...no manuals
3 its a DCT

Now just settle down.

In the UK, they also come in a manual.Why Ford never offered it here is beyond me. In fact you can get a mild Hybrid 1.0 litre Ecoboost 6 speed manual.