TRD Aurion bites the dust!

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by flappist

Exactly.

But there seem to be problems with the product here and the people who developed this engine have previously had a lot of success with turbo rather than super charging.

It would be extremely embarrassing for both the maunfacturer and the fan base if a simmilar situation occured with a future product that many constantly fantasize over.

your sarcasm is telling me PRO DRIVE, developed this engine, and your sarcasm also points to a referall of a prodive developed boss for the GTHO.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

your sarcasm is telling me PRO DRIVE, developed this engine, and your sarcasm also points to a referall of a prodive developed boss for the GTHO.

Is it a Prodrive problem or a Toyota problem??

My guess is corner cutting Toyota who needed a HUGE profit margin on the car to make it viable do not have strong enough components to handle the power.

The Aurion is already stressed enough producing some 200kw at high rpm in a alloy V6.

The Typhoon produces 270kw in a lazy power band at 5500rpm in a cast iron straight six.

Oh and the Typhoon clutch failure was down to random chance that the engine harmonics destabilised the clutch clips. I think the original clutch was rated at 700nm

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Is it a Prodrive problem or a Toyota problem??

My guess is corner cutting Toyota who needed a HUGE profit margin on the car to make it viable do not have strong enough components to handle the power.

The Aurion is already stressed enough producing some 200kw at high rpm in a alloy V6.

The Typhoon produces 270kw in a lazy power band at 5500rpm in a cast iron straight six.

Oh and the Typhoon clutch failure was down to random chance that the engine harmonics destabilised the clutch clips. I think the original clutch was rated at 700nm

It would be a Toyota problem seeing as its there badge all over the car not Prodrives. Did Prodrive actually design the car or are they only building them?

[normxb]

Well the Advertising hasn't stopped , Ad for the "TRD" has just finished on "Austar Sat" , so they can't be real concerned or they'd pull the Ad's immediately ,?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

your sarcasm is telling me PRO DRIVE, developed this engine, and your sarcasm also points to a referall of a prodive developed boss for the GTHO.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm

This will help you with the meaning of the word sarcasm.

Yes ProDrive/FPV engineers developed this engine but if I had said that plainly then it is possible that a hypersensitive narrow minded V8 zealot might misinterpret it as an anti boss V8 statement and chuck a tanty.

Fortunately almost all AFF members are bright enough to realise that events like this, e.g. F6 clutch issue, can have a wider reaching impact than on the specific product involved.

So to put it simply so it is not misinterpreted.

If the supercharging of an existing engine turns out to be a stuffup then possibly the supercharging of the BOSS 5.4, an engine exclusive to Australia, will no longer be concidered as although it shares some components with the 4.6 & 5.4 supercharged engines found in Mustangs and GT40s it is in fact quite different.
Maybe they (FPV) will wait until the next V8 platform, which is a world wide one, before offering said product rather than risk it going boom. That would mean a delay of at least 5 years and possibly cause disappointment within the fan base.

[rodderz]

I heard about this a couple of weeks ago from someone who sells them, apparently one he knew of shot a rod out the side of the block during a drive by a salesperson. They were told to remove all TRD's from showroom floors, but I did see some last week that were still on ther showroom so not sure if that was done or not

[jzab]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes ProDrive/FPV engineers developed this engine......

Are you sure it was the work of Prodrive? I went to an SAE presentation given by the head engineer in charge of engine development for the TRD Aurion and he stated that TRD developed the engine, with input from Orbital (testing and calibration) and Eaton (supercharger installation). Prodrive did not have any engineering input, they only provide the labour to put the production versions together.

[Envi XR8]

if Toyota have a failure, they normally learn from the mistake and come back twice as good. I reckon it's just teething problems, or as stated an over zealous salesman.

all makes and models suffer this. A mate of mine knew of several BA GTs that had engine swaps done because of spun crank bearings. Years ago GMH had problems with spun cam bearings. It's one of those things that car manufacturers find out once they release their cars to the public, who 'test' them in some way that was not thought of by the factory, a la ^^ the BA Diff story above.

this will be a speed bump in the development road me thinks, but I could be wrong. Won't be the first time.

[merlin]

Seriously don't they test these new models extensivley before selling them? Are you telling me they never once booted an Aurion in testing to see if a rod would shoot out????

I remember the BA brochure saying how many millions of kilometres of testing that endured but they seemingly didnt pick up the brake squeel, idle problems ect ect.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by flappist

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm

This will help you with the meaning of the word sarcasm.

Yes ProDrive/FPV engineers developed this engine but if I had said that plainly then it is possible that a hypersensitive narrow minded V8 zealot might misinterpret it as an anti boss V8 statement and chuck a tanty.

Fortunately almost all AFF members are bright enough to realise that events like this, e.g. F6 clutch issue, can have a wider reaching impact than on the specific product involved.

So to put it simply so it is not misinterpreted.

If the supercharging of an existing engine turns out to be a stuffup then possibly the supercharging of the BOSS 5.4, an engine exclusive to Australia, will no longer be concidered as although it shares some components with the 4.6 & 5.4 supercharged engines found in Mustangs and GT40s it is in fact quite different.
Maybe they (FPV) will wait until the next V8 platform, which is a world wide one, before offering said product rather than risk it going boom. That would mean a delay of at least 5 years and possibly cause disappointment within the fan base.

WELL THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION. i picked all that up from reading between the lines of your sarcastic previous post. not sure about the V PLATFORM JARGON though.

[Steffo]

Toyota quality at work again. :

[5.4 GT]

Originally Posted by jzab

Are you sure it was the work of Prodrive? I went to an SAE presentation given by the head engineer in charge of engine development for the TRD Aurion and he stated that TRD developed the engine, with input from Orbital (testing and calibration) and Eaton (supercharger installation). Prodrive did not have any engineering input, they only provide the labour to put the production versions together.

That is correct Prodrive did not have any engineering input. I too went to a presentation in Sydney given by the TRD Head Engineer and some of his collegues. Was quite interesting, went through the whole build process of the car.

I think the only other input Prodrive had was in the development of the cars production cells which mimicked that of FPV (looked alot less cluttered in the slideshow presentation pictures compared to what I saw at the FPV open day).

[5.4 GT]

Originally Posted by flappist

Interesting.

A supercharged V format engine is demonstrating structural issues.

I suspect there will be a huge amount of dummy spitting in parts of AFF if the engine developers decide that supercharging V format engines is not a viable option for future development.

Always thinking of the Boss, how thoughtful... (however ill-informed.)

[Hunter]

Hehe, a new slogan for Toyrota:

"TRD... because its not quite a tur-d".

Back to selling whitegoods to old farts in bowls hats methinks.

[Bluehoon]

Bugger to have te issue, but at least Toyate is being upfront, honest and pro active in sorting it out.

That's something to give them credit for.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Barry_v

I must live in a bubble too. Its called reality - toyota engine problems (putting aside the odd timing cover oil weap) are extremely rare.

I have seen the results of early V6 prados throwing a rod, but the term 'extreme abuse' comes to mind.

Toyota's are perfect :monkes:

Consumers saddled with sludge-clogged Toyota engines may soon get some help from the Japanese auto giant under the terms of a class-action lawsuit settlement that covers roughly 3.5 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles damaged by engine oil sludge.

An engine gummed up with oil sludge can cost thousands of dollars to repair and in many cases must be replaced. The class action settlement could potentially cost the automaker hundreds of millions of dollars.

The agreement will allow consumers whose claims have been denied by Toyota to submit those claims to a third-party mediator at no cost for binding arbitration.

The lawsuit, filed in a Louisiana district court, could receive final approval by the middle of February. Details of the settlement are being mailed to 7.5 million current and previous Toyota and Lexus owners.

The agreement provides owners of sludge-damaged Toyotas eight years plus 120 days from the original purchase date to file a complaint.

Toyota consumers who have repaired their sludge-damaged engines may be able to recover their costs. The car only needs to show evidence of oil sludge damage.

The terms of the settlement are transferable to future vehicle owners.

Toyota owners have repeatedly written ConsumerAffairs.Com detailing Toyota's attempts to blame sludge problems on inadequate vehicle maintenance by the owner.

Charles in Arkansas said: "At 36,000 miles the engine gummed up and quit running. My wife had the oil changed at Wal-Mart and did not keep receipts for the oil changes. The North Little Rock dealer and the Toyota representative told us such problems were rare and that we had caused the problem but for $2,500 they could fix it. They inferred that my wife was a liar," he wrote.

With the new agreement, consumers need only show reasonable maintenance in terms of oil changes.

Toyotas covered by the Louisiana settlement include the:

• Camry 4 cylinder from 1997-2001,
• Camry 6 cylinder from 1997-2002,
• Camry Solara 4 cylinder from 1999-2001,
• Camry Solara 6 cylinder 1999-2002,
• Sienna 6 cylinder from 1998-2002,
• Avalon 6 cylinder from 1997-2002,
• Celica 4 cylinder from 1997-1999,
• Highlander 6 cylinder from 2001-2002,
• Lexus ES 300 from 1997-2002 and
• Lexus RX 300 from 1999-2002.

In 2002 Toyota admitted receiving 3,400 complaints about sludged engines and the automaker extended its vehicle warranty to eight years along with unlimited mileage to owners of 1997-2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles equipped with 3.0-liter V-6 or 2.2-liter four-cylinder engines.

At Toyota dealerships, however, consumers have encountered repeated denials from service managers insisting that sludging occurs primarily when owners fail to change their oil frequently enough.

Lauren wrote ConsumerAffairs.Com from Tampa, Florida that, "My check engine light came on once again so I immediately returned to Stadium Toyota. The next day, I received a call from Stadium Toyota telling me that my engine is damaged due to engine sludge and it will cost me $4,500 to fix it."

In Lawrenceville, Georgia Valerie ran into a hostile dealer despite Toyota confirming her vehicle was "part of their oil gelling/sludge program. The service dept at the dealership says that I'm not entitled to anything," she wrote.

In Apex, North Carolina Jan heard the bad news from her Toyota dealer.

"They checked it over, then called and said that the engine had sludge in it and it needed a $7,000 to $8,000 repair," she wrote.

"They also said it was my fault, because the oil had obviously not been changed properly. When I purchased the car, the Toyota dealer talked me into a $999 extended warranty plan, which he assured me would cover any major issues that might come up with a car. It is called their Tender Loving Care package."

Edward from Parma, Ohio received the Toyota brush-off despite promises of an extended warranty.

"I called the dealer and was basically told by their customer service manager that they refused to do anything and did not care if I chose to file a lawsuit or anything else, Edward told ConsumerAffairs.Com.

Lois from Cedar Rapids is still steaming over her treatment despite promises of an extended warranty.

"We received a letter from Toyota that indicated the engine was covered for a period of 8 years for engine sludge. In February of 2006, at 144,000 miles, the engine started making a loud noise. We were told that our car had 'blown a rod' and needed a new engine. We asked about the previous problem but were told that this was not related to the sludge problem and the car was not covered by Toyota."

The Toyota agreement the court is examining contains no finding of fault by Toyota or its dealers and does not prove Toyota or Lexus vehicles are predisposed to develop oil gel.

[Sapper]

None of this is surprising. Not to long ago a certain police force within Australia had a problem where an Aurion's DSC system failed during a pursuit and the Aurion promptly made a detour off of the road against the will of the driver. How many Aurion police cars have you seen lately?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DaveO_SP

Always thinking of the Boss, how thoughtful... (however ill-informed.)

Thank you DaveO. I quite liked my BOSS powered GT-P which I owned while you were at high school. You have left school now haven't you?

I also had some quite interesting discussions with the actual engineers who designed the BOSS a few years ago and one of the things mentioned was how despite there being any engineering issues, marketing have killed and/or changed products before they got released.

An example of this was that the original GT-P (2003) was going to be more powerful than the GT but marketing decided to make them the same. When I ordered mine 12/2/2003 I was shown original documentation denoting this. I was told a few weeks later it had changed.

Another example was the original F6 had its torque curve lowered so as prevent it from eclipsing the GT. Again this was done by marketing. It was corrected in the interim period between the first release and the re-release after the clutch issue was resolved.

Do you remember these events? Were you involved in any discussions or activities at the time?

Or are all your opinions just extensions of others in an attempt to achieve peer adulation?

[Bossxr8]

Looks like Orbital didn't test it thoroughly enough. I'm not surprised it happened though, they did not change a single internal part of the engine even though it was having boost rammed down its throat because TRD wanted to do it on the cheap. :

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by sleekism

TRD Aurion withdrawn from sale
Steve Colquhoun, The Age, 18/09/07

Of topic but isn't the author of this article a former FPV manager.

[Smoke Pursuit]

So at this stage it could be a 1 off complaint, how many Fords have we heard of that themselves within an hour of pre delivery...

Id be waiting to here the outcome before I jump up and down with excitement... I just feel sorry for the poor individuals who buy such a car, they are going to get the poor end of the stick no doubt in the future, as the things certainly wont retain any kind of decent resale as per FPV or HSV.

[Barry_v]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Toyota's are perfect :monkes:

I would suggest that oil sludging is due to infrequent changes and/or poor quality oil.

You'd think if the problem was as widespread as that article indicates they could have found better examples. I mean one person claims they did change the oil, but it wasnt at a toyota dealership and they didnt keep reciepts? No manufacturer is going to warrant an engine gumming up on the basis of that.
the next line says...

"With the new agreement, consumers need only show reasonable maintenance in terms of oil changes"

but that customer cant show anything?!?

and having engine repairs at 144,000 miles (232,000km) is not unexpected in any product. comparing that to a major manufacturing error like clutch failure in a typhoon or piston slap in an LS1 is rediculous. Ford never had a recall over EVERY EA-EL DOING A HEAD GASKET/HEAD BEFORE 232,000km, but then again that why toyota has a better name for quality.

and just so you know, I do work in a toyota dealership, Im not relying on google like steffo. I cant say much about TRD though as we arent the dealer for them.

[Rev28K]

Someone told me a tale about when the LS400 was introduced it had a problem with the RHMSL burning out due to high temperatures. The person telling me the story reckoned that Toyota (Lexus) had a fix sorted within a day. Me being cynical I thought that a) Toyota released the car knowing it was only 99% and were going to fix this problem at the first service, b) Toyota must have skimped on the pre-release testing c) Toyota deliberately released the car with a fault (and with an easy fix waiting in the wings) so that they could deliberately crow about how swift they were to rectify faults. The guy telling me the story reckoned that it illustrated Toyota’s quick response time and customer first attitude. We never saw eye to eye on this issue.

If they did manage to sort out the Lexus problem in a day they could be very quick with this fix (although I doubt it). This sucks because it casts doubts over the abilities of the Aussie engineers involved with the car. Q. how many cars have been released and had faults that the general public doesn’t know about?
A. heaps of them.

Flappist – I’ve heard about various Fords that were ball-tearers in pre-production and had to be de-tuned for either emissions, marketing or fuel quality – Mondeos, Laser Turbos (the original), Ford I6T, etc. Can you please PM with the original kw/torque figure for the GT-P and F6 (do they match up with what the media is quoting for the Orion release)?

[Zed7fiddy]

Originally Posted by hy_boi

I reckon it have to do with the sales person....hehe

As soon as you get hold of one you best be bringing it round ;)

[XRDRIFT]

OK, anyone who is bagging out Toyotas needs thier head re examined. Toyota for one, is almost the biggest car manufacturer in the world, over yes FORD and GMH. And they wont be by accident, they have a great product.

Go back a decade, the RZ twin turbo Supra, its 2JZ can produce with standard internals over 1000hp, and almost be reliable. The almighty 1.6ltr 4AGE in our 1986-1994 powered SX corollas, unbreakable and not to mention the 4AGZE supercharged versions which came standard with forged pistons.

Toyota along with Honda are one if not, biggest producers of the most reliable cars in the world. Ford have alot of issues and GMH, I have an BA XR6T, lets not even start with their probs, a gearbox that was a mistake by Ford to put in (T5's, shame shame), drive shafts that are weak, some of them have rough idle issues (like mine did), and a handbrake that makes a swishing sound as sound as you first use your handbrake. Front brakes that shudder on some (i have new rotors and pads and it still does it), But all in all, the XR6T has potential, when money is spent on strengthing those parts with aftermarket gear.

This is a first for Toyota Australia to make a car liek this, you honestly cant expect it to be perfect from word go, if Ford built cars like Toyota in the sense of reliablity, maybe we wouldnt be visiting our service departments to have stupid little issues fixed.

And yes, I do have a Toyota, a 1981 corolla with a 4AGE in it, modded up with standard parts from other model Toyotas(Celica diff,corona struts etc) and it will be my drift pig.

Im not bagging Fords out completely, but compared to what the Toyota product can offer in reliable as a whole across the range, both Ford and Holden have alot to live up too.

[phoonfan]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

if Toyota have a failure, they normally learn from the mistake and come back twice as good.
.

might i dare mention, Lexcen, Avalon and now Aurion... :togo:

Perhaps they should stick to what they know best, making dull small cars for the masses! :eclipsee_

[BionicGT]

Originally Posted by flappist

Thank you DaveO. I quite liked my BOSS powered GT-P which I owned while you were at high school. You have left school now haven't you?
Or are all your opinions just extensions of others in an attempt to achieve peer adulation?

Flappist - you have serious issues. : You need help.

Just about every post you make tries to defend the decision you made to buy a Typhoon. We don't care which vehicle you bought. Just stop pushing your choice onto everyone else. Move on.

[T3man]

XRDRIFT - sad but true. Toy Motor Company DO make more reliable and better tested and assembled products than anything that ever comes from Ford Australia or GMH.

But I'd still never buy one. Not just Toyota, any Jap car that is. I'm a patriot at heart and would rather put up with a lesser product that buys jobs for Aussie kids than see my money buying jobs for Japs! Yep, I am racist. At least in this regard.

[Sprint_ED]

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

True, true but engine failure?

What is funny is how many of the faults are uncovered by delaerships when test drivers are a bit too eager when doing their drive. I know I fluffed a diff on a BA back in 2002 during a test drive; apparently I discovered a fault that hadn't been picked up by the "extensive" testing done by Ford.

That said, my BA is going quite well!

maybe the salespeople should do the testing:P

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BionicGT

Flappist - you have serious issues. : You need help.

Just about every post you make tries to defend the decision you made to buy a Typhoon. We don't care which vehicle you bought. Just stop pushing your choice onto everyone else. Move on.

Where in this thread have I mentioned buying a F6?
Where have I mentioned anything about F6 other than an issue with the early ones.

This thread is about the TRD recall and now if there might me any affect on possible future FPV models.

I have, however, mentioned hypersensitive narrow minded zealots. Ok so that is what you are upset about.

Why is it that a small group on here almost always take any post that does not start and finish with "GT IS WONDERFUL" as a personal afront? If you don't like what I say and do not have enough intelligence to rebuke using logic, reason or evidence then put me on your ignore list. I am sure many have.
If you are just going to get bitter and twisted and see "anti GT" in any thingand everything I write then I suspect it is you who may need help.