Opened or Unopened - Page 2

Falc'man · 30-04-2009, 07:39 PM

I personally don't like euphemisms and bs.

The LS1/I6T guys felt they needed to improve their unopened times, so they changed the rules. That's their bad luck; who are they to make or change the Irish language?

In saying that, I strongly agree with Mark, as some say theirs is unopened, but seldom mention what's been done to the rest of the car; ie, lightening, stall, drag tyres, shocks, removal of ancilleries at the strip, using vice grips as a steering wheel... and then turn around and claim the fastest unopened time? For the sake of apples for apples, just list all that's been done and enough of playing with words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Correct Dan, if you look through my posting history I laughed at valve spring change being called unopened, all I am saying it don't matter what they call it as long as everyone lists there mods with there ET's, we cant stop people's interpenetration of what they want to call a class on any Forum.

Absolutely. That's what is all boils down to - and what you said earlier - being honest about what's done.

Romulus · 30-04-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

So my post is rubbish? whilst something has been opened yes technically is opened, but this don't stop 2 other forums from or anyone else from making changes and still calling it an unopened class, anyone can call it what they like...fact is they call a valve spring change unopened on the ls1 and turbo sites.....gee they could have called it Arnold Horshack who really cares what its called...you call it unopened and I will call it a standard motor with a valve spring change..

I'm with you on this one Mark.

One of the reasons valve springs are now ignored on the other forum is because a certain valve spring type for the LS1 (916 from memory) looked identical to the stock beehive spring. Thus, to stop folk lying about valve spring mods (you could tell on the dyno when a car had modded valve springs) springs were ignored. I ran Patriot Golds in my VT GENIII along with Jesel valve train gear, GM Grand Am cam, JE pistons, Crower rods thus my engine was opened.

Unless the heads or sump has been removed or cams changed it's a stock motor with valve springs.

As mentioned there's usually no referrence to other modifications done to a car in the endevour to achieve a time; race fuel, slicks and front runners filled with helium, removal of A/C and interiors, spare wheels, spare wheel assemblies, installation of race seats and so on and so forth.

schnoods · 30-04-2009, 09:16 PM

I agree entirely with Chris's post.

I can understand from the LS1's point of view, the valve train is the weak link in most cases and in order to set records, its a given that they allow it.

Even the cam only classes, With some of the front runners having horrid cam profiles which look similar to matchboxes hanging off a bit of dowel, their ruling is designed to keep the class exciting, quick and yet allow the big hitters to compete.

It is opened in my opinion, it isnt when it is only an inspection, and i dare say a valve spring change would be fair to say stock internals, but not unopened..

The poll is also pretty inconclusive, I guess it depends on whether your in the hunt for a record whether you make a decision on whether you wanna go faster or keep it genuinely a unopened motor, then decide on the definition.....

**Tucool** · 02-05-2009, 01:09 PM

I've infiltrated other forums in the last 24hrs that supposeably condone the use of valve springs and put the same question to them.... it seems that the "majority" agree that tampering with valve springs is considered opened...
only early days with numbers, but I will keep you informed

SpoolMan · 02-05-2009, 03:10 PM

Thread can be followed on the xr6 turbo forum, here is the link.

http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/in...howtopic=57279

Majority Definition: The amount or number by which one aggregate exceeds all other aggregates.

**Tucool** · 03-05-2009, 10:57 AM

Hey all,

I came across a great rule of thumb for the unopened debate ( at least I think so)... " If it touches oil then it's opened ".... This is from the LS1 forum.

I can't seem to find fault with it....if there is a loop hole please put it up for all to see. :monkes:

yift · 03-05-2009, 11:22 AM

what if you changed your (unopened no springs or rods changed)motor in your ba series1 to a bf series2 motor (service motor from ford spare parts)? are you still unopened?

nugget378 · 03-05-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yift

what if you changed your (unopened no springs or rods changed)motor in your ba series1 to a bf series2 motor (service motor from ford spare parts)? are you still unopened?

What if you bought a brand new KB hemi and installed it?

where does it end..

**Tucool** · 03-05-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yift

what if you changed your (unopened no springs or rods changed)motor in your ba series1 to a bf series2 motor (service motor from ford spare parts)? are you still unopened?

Unopened is unopened.... splitting hairs abit

Mr. CVE · 03-05-2009, 05:14 PM

My engine is unopened, the turbo upgrade was done AFTER the extractors !!
haha, just stirring the pot a bit :P
personally i beleieve no performance / strength / reliability enhancing products.
but I am not getting involved, as there is the whole car lightening debate as well !!

**Tucool** · 03-05-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

What if you bought a brand new KB hemi and installed it?

where does it end..

If that's how the car come in the first place I would have no problem with it

I bet it would be a pig to drive in traffic

**Tucool** · 03-05-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. CVE

My engine is unopened, the turbo upgrade was done AFTER the extractors !!
haha, just stirring the pot a bit :P
personally i beleieve no performance / strength / reliability enhancing products.
but I am not getting involved, as there is the whole car lightening debate as well !!

Yeah I know what you mean...

but I'm only talking about motor..
I could not imagine taking bits off my car to make it lighter... I like her just the way she is...full weight and beautiful

SpoolMan · 03-05-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tucool

Hey all,

I came across a great rule of thumb for the unopened debate ( at least I think so)... " If it touches oil then it's opened ".... This is from the LS1 forum.

LS1.com.au were the 1st ones to allow a valve spring change and still call it unopened, if you look in ls1 nationals forum/thread they have written rules which they all use, its in there bolt-on/unopened class.

4Vman · 03-05-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

What if you bought a brand new KB hemi and installed it?

where does it end..

blown or un blown...?

nugget378 · 03-05-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

blown or un blown...?

Does'nt really matter, as long as you never take the rocker covers off..

**Tucool** · 03-05-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

LS1.com.au were the 1st ones to allow a valve spring change and still call it unopened, if you look in ls1 nationals forum/thread they have written rules which they all use, its in there bolt-on/unopened class.

Yep I know that... that rule of thumb did come from a member of the LS1 forum...even that is divided with most replies agreeing "don't tamper"
I look at this way....why should we be like sheep and follow blindly just because someone decided to write down some rules that suited their cause
especially from the opposition... I try to understand the thinking...convince me of why there should exceptions... apart from the fact that it corrupts the definition of unopened in the English language.

blueboost · 05-05-2009, 08:44 AM

this was brought about from ls1 because the valve springs where holding the rest of the motor back, by a fair bit, and very inconsistent between cars, so some would cheat and change them, leaving the one,s doing it right look slack.
i argued against it in the early day's, but we had just as bad a problem as them,
so most changed there springs as per the ls1 rules so we wwhere not left behind.
this worked well, because a lot of power has been made out of BA motors with valve springs done, insted of them staying back at about 280rkws.
FORD has raised the bar with BFturbo's to the stage where on some motors the springs can last longer then the bottom end.
this has Brought it up again, and i feel it would be good to have it that it was called (stock internals), and you just put (valve springs changed) after it if you have done it.
(unopened) has alway's been a shonky thing to call it, ford could have taken your tappet cover off even to check something.

View Poll Results: In your opinion, is the changing of valve springs considered an unopened motor???
Yes	31	41.33%
No	44	58.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll