speed limiter?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by useless

I think if the car does run a good 14 second time then the cam has done its job.If it runs just into the 14.999 then I know the cam is a dud.

WTF??? There are maybe 3 or 4 auto I6 NA cars that are running into the 14's on the forums.. all of them done up with a fair bit of stuff, none of them a wagon. If you run a 14.999 the cam isnt a dud, its a magician. Send JMM a big bottle of scotch if you run a 14.999 cause you have done what no one else has, run a 14 second pass in an auto wagon.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by useless

My cam timing are set at the "useless" settings. Dialling in a cam has proven to me to be bullcrap.

The only thing which is bullcrap, is what you just wrote.
Dialing in a cam is a precise job, and to get the very best results, a dyno or the manufactures specs are pretty darn handy.

Rotate the engine and the lifter bleeds down or pumps up and I could never get it right.

Then you're doing it wrong.
The lifter bleeding down has nothing to do with clocking a cam, the measurment is taken from the the rocker arm, not the valve.
How many times did I offer to clock up your cam?

I reset the cam timing with what made it feel fast backed up by gtech times .

And how many times have people mentionend to you that G-tech times are unpredictable?
And seat of the pants is even more unreliable.

If I wanted to I can gain 10-20 rwkws this morning from my engine just by retarding the cam.I will be a dyno day king!!But on the street my car will be a dog!! My car is faster now with 134 rwkws than say 150 rwkws that I can have in 30 minutes time.

Faster for some applications perhaps. However with your high stall convertor and 3.7 gears, botom end power is actually less important now.

Having a quick car is about having a good spread of power, having power just down low, or just up top is not how it's done.

Rick.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by useless

I think if the car does run a good 14 second time then the cam has done its job.If it runs just into the 14.999 then I know the cam is a dud.

You're joking right?
A barge like a wagon running a sub 15sec 400m time is very good indeed.

In any case, the cam would not be at fault, though perhaps the guy who continually fiddles with the timing of the cam is the problem.

Rick.

[Stav]

Ok JMM settings 0-100 8.5 to 9 seconds.Useless settings 0-100 6.9 seconds average.You tell me whats better.BTW I would not mind lining you up at a private venue for a friendly drag.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Sox

You're joking right?
A barge like a wagon running a sub 15sec 400m time is very good indeed.

In any case, the cam would not be at fault, though perhaps the guy who continually fiddles with the timing of the cam is the problem.

Rick.

Get over it Soxx if it worked the way it should I would have not kept fiddling with it..it would be kicking *** and improving my times!!!And finally it is!!

[Casper]

Originally Posted by useless

Get over it Soxx if it worked the way it should I would have not kept fiddling with it..it would be kicking *** and improving my times!!!

what times? Stav, you need to take it to the track to get A time to start with mate, there are no times. GTech is far to inconsistant to be considered hard evidence.

[Stav]

Sorry Casper I edited my post to suit but your post came up first...sorry mate...The cam is kicking *** but not at jmm specs.They are only human too.They are terrific blokes with terrific products..

[Stav]

Set up the dial gauge.TDC ...96 MM LIFT AT TDC ..yes it was right.Rotate the engine ..oops slightly different...rotated the cam..yes thats right.Rotate the engine yes at tdc .96mm lift again.Rotated 10 times .96 mm lift at tdc.Took it for a run and a bunch of curly haired builders in a hilux blew my doors off. The science is exact ,but if it doesnt work common sense must prevail.I dont like being beaten and neither do you.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by useless

Ok JMM settings 0-100 8.5 to 9 seconds.Useless settings 0-100 6.9 seconds average.You tell me whats better.

I'd bet my left testicle that the cam is now at the JMM spec, IF your G-tech times are to be believed, which are of course dubious at best.

I don't believe you have the skills to 'accurately' dial in a camshaft, you're frequent posting here is evidence of that. I'm sorry if you're offended by this, but I suspect I'm not alone.

I don't get you, one week you're on these forums claiming JMM are the ants pants, and the next week you're claiming that JMM have it wrong with regards to cam dial in specs.
Don't you think they would give you the best dial in settings to get the best out of the own camshafts?

BTW I would not mind lining you up at a private venue for a friendly drag.

I'm always up for a drag.

Rick.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Sox

I'd bet my left testicle that the cam is now at the JMM spec, IF your G-tech times are to be believed, which are of course dubious at best.

I don't believe you have the skills to 'accurately' dial in a camshaft, you're frequent posting here is evidence of that. I'm sorry if you're offended by this, but I suspect I'm not alone.

I don't get you, one week you're on these forums claiming JMM are the ants pants, and the next week you're claiming that JMM have it wrong with regards to cam dial in specs.
Don't you think they would give you the best dial in settings to get the best out of the own camshafts?

I'm always up for a drag.

Rick.

They are the ants pants.Their extractors made my car scream.The best mod to date.No question there mate.But the cam to me at street daily speeds made no difference until I could beat a few families cars which flogged me in the beggining with redialling and testing..
pm sent rick....

[Sox]

Originally Posted by useless

Get over it Soxx if it worked the way it should I would have not kept fiddling with it..it would be kicking *** and improving my times!!!And finally it is!!

But you have no verifiable times to use as a benchmark.

Set up the dial gauge.TDC ...96 MM LIFT AT TDC ..yes it was right.Rotate the engine ..oops slightly different...rotated the cam..yes thats right.Rotate the engine yes at tdc .96mm lift again.Rotated 10 times .96 mm lift at tdc.

Ok, but did you even attempt to find true TDC, or did you rely on the marks on the harmonic balancer?
Where exactly did you have your dial gauge, in a previous post you indicated you had it on the valve, which is not the correct way to do it.

BTW, why did you rotate it 10 times?

Rick.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Sox

But you have no verifiable times to use as a benchmark.

Ok, but did you even attempt to find true TDC, or did you rely on the marks on the harmonic balancer?
Where exactly did you have your dial gauge, in a previous post you indicated you had it on the valve, which is not the correct way to do it.

BTW, why did you rotate it 10 times?

Rick.

Brendan told me this is the correct way to dial in the cam.10 times because the I believe that with the lifter bleedown that I had to double check everything.

[Stav]

The dial was on top of rocker number 1 intake valve.But its old news now man.The car goes as good as I can get it and its going very well.Actually frightfully well so I dont really think about the cam much anymore and have gotten on with getting on.And its worked.I am a very happy man... :

[Sox]

Originally Posted by useless

They are the ants pants.Their extractors made my car scream.The best mod to date.No question there mate.But the cam to me at street daily speeds made no difference until I could beat a few families cars which flogged me in the beggining with redialling and testing..
pm sent rick....

And why does this make it a bad cam? A DEV4 is a pretty healthy profile, more tuned to midrange and top end work.
You fitted it to a automatic wagon with 3.23 gears, what did you expect? If you wanted a traffic light racer, you should have just changed your gearing right from the start as many people suggested you do a long time ago.
Or fitted a DEV2 or DEV3 cam, which is more suited to low to middle RPM's.

Brendan told me this is the correct way to dial in the cam.10 times because the I believe that with the lifter bleedown that I had to double check everything.

I can't say I agree with this method, is it possible you misunderstood him?

The dial was on top of rocker number 1 intake valve.

Which is the wrong place to put it, the correct spot is on the rocker.

Rick.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Sox

And why does this make it a bad cam?

Which is the wrong place to put it, the correct spot is on the rocker.

Rick.

Read prior post...rocker intake no 1

The cam isnt bad ..but I did expect better.The 3.73 gears and 3000 stallie are in the car and to give you an indication with the stallie cars which kept up with me are now 2-3 cars behind....with the 3.7 gears they are 5-8 cars behind me...so ...this is why I am not overly phased by it anymore.The cam did not give massive power increases but substantial torque increases through the rev range which makes this cam a good cam.150 rwkws as a final figure would have been nice to have...just didnt happen.Didnt happen for Kristeena either.

Stav

[stockstandard]

i just keep thinking back to how you talked about this cam when it was in your old engine. You seemed happy with it back then.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by stockstandard

i just keep thinking back to how you talked about this cam when it was in your old engine. You seemed happy with it back then.

I was happy with a readout of 150 rwkws.The power was good .But the street power was not.It was slower than stock but I did not want to bring that up on a public forum.I like jmm and didnt want to harm them..But since you asked to bring my point of view from back then..well now you have it.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by useless

I was happy with a readout of 150 rwkws.The power was good .But the street power was not.It was slower than stock but I did not want to bring that up on a public forum.I like jmm and didnt want to harm them..But since you asked to bring my point of view from back then..well now you have it.

But this has no bearing on how good or bad the camshaft is, it is to do with a mismatch between weight, gearing, and power.

The DEV4 cam delivered the goods, but naturally it cant cope with <1600kgs of weight, with a auto, standard stall convertor, and a 3.23 gear set.

All you have done is advanced the cam to lower the power curve to suit what you really needed.

The fact that you now have a high stall convertor, and shorter gearing, you could benefit by retarding the cam and using the full 150kw~ of what that cam is capable of.

Rick.

[Stav]

I have thought of retarding the cam.But am afraid to trade off the terrific acceleration that it now has.Some forum members who have 160 kw 14 second v8's have driven my car and clearly said..leave it alone...it will do well.I would rather have 10 nm more through the rev range than 150 at top.

Btw the dyno which generously gave me 150 rwkws still gives me 147.7 rwkws...So it is horses for courses

http://photobucket.com/albums/y119/u...70605me147.jpg

[Stav]

Anyways guys thanks for all of the support ..wish me luck...I am not sure if ill be on for the next week...Will post results.. :

all this this talk about lifters bleeding down ,could this have an effect on dialing your cam .i notice mine will bleed down in about ten min ,every time i start the car after its been sitting for more then 10 min it'l rattle on start up.


useless hope you get the times your looking for .

[Sox]

Originally Posted by useless

Btw the dyno which generously gave me 150 rwkws still gives me 147.7 rwkws...So it is horses for courses

It certainly is, and here lies half the problem, you've been comparing too many different dynos with each other.
Stick with one dyno for all your mods, otherwise you're just ****ing money down the dunny.

Rick.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Sox

It certainly is, and here lies half the problem, you've been comparing too many different dynos with each other.
Stick with one dyno for all your mods, otherwise you're just ****ing money down the dunny.

Rick.

Or better yet, use the 1/4 mile to test real world power. Not everything which improves peak power works on the road. There are cases (such as xdc351) where the power was great, the specs were right, the gear was top shelf and the results were WAAAAY off what was expected cause it didnt work together in the real world.

Dyno curves are a great tool, the numbers of minor interest, but unless you can alter time/space/distance the 1/4 mile ET is totally reflective of reality.Sure weather has a factor.. but it is also a real life factor.

Race it, 1/4 mile over xx.xx time is irrefutable and locked in stone (until you go faster again).

[jonbays]

Casper is 100% here.

And SOX is on the money.

Dyno's lie flatter and fart about depending on the operator and the unit and its condition and software so can't be trusted untill you get to "know" one.

I like Spiro's Dyno best in Sydney but thats just because its been kind to me.

Anyway Casper is 100% because there are plenty of horsepower hero engines that can't deliver the goods on the strip or the road even though they impress on the dyno. I know of a good few people who have changed cams to lower power cams with a broader power band and got better qtr mile times.

[kryzak260]

Originally Posted by useless

What is your month and date of manufacture on compliance plate?Mine is 02/1999

Mine is also a 02/99 compliance.

[Stav]

02/99 may be something there. Guys I have just changed my speedo gear to black 23 tooth.My existing one was 21 tooth light green. The MAX ELLERYS manual is wrong.

Um I dont know how to say this but I took it for a spin up the road and wanted to see the rev limiter.I fanged it.My revs hit 6100-6200 rpm without anything that resembled a rev limiter.I am constantly getting 6000 rpm gear changes under heavy throttle.

Firstly how do I know I have hit the rev limiter? Secondly will I blow my engine with 6000 rpm gear changes?

[HLC]

i really wish i knew all about this stuff :|

[Stav]

Youre kind mate..Ill be here for help if need be.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Casper

WTF??? There are maybe 3 or 4 auto I6 NA cars that are running into the 14's on the forums.. all of them done up with a fair bit of stuff, none of them a wagon. If you run a 14.999 the cam isnt a dud, its a magician. Send JMM a big bottle of scotch if you run a 14.999 cause you have done what no one else has, run a 14 second pass in an auto wagon.

If I get a 14 Jim and Brendan will get a huge wrap from me as well as a free link from my business website.
Does the gtech lie..we will find out this Saturday..weather permitting...hopefully not 34 degrees like today.

[loxxr6]

.....and hopefully not raining like the v8owners day ended up.