VFACTS - May 2024

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

A) would be the correct answer I reckon, its always 'market pricing' - which is what price you can get away with charging that you know a market is willing to pay.

Rather than setting a margin target, ie say 40% you go well I can charge this much for it because the market seems to be willing to pay for it (or has no/limited options).

We did this with a few product categories where the target was 40% but I could get 250-300% for stuff that you had no options on.

I've spoken about it before but I managed to bend over IVECO massively because their own behavior killed my only competitor and left me as the only option on the table for them.

Then if they didn't go for it, I'd just sell direct to their customers and take even more from them by removing their aftermarket from them.

You can see it with Ranger price creep across the years, Australians are obviously willing to pay a premium for their product so they can keep increasing pricing, and Isuzu is now starting to do it on their N series light truck range now they're managing to convert some Thailand Special sales.

Single cab tray back Ranger is circa $50K DA? Thats well above inflation rate from the PX introduction.

Hilux Workmate keeps creeping up in price, $8000 price increase on an older platform, with a naturally aspirated engine thats been around for a long time, 5sp manual gearbox, something that was under $25K DA as the competitors reduce in the fleet spec market.

VDJ79 pricing, thats the king of platforms that were long paid off decades ago thats now pure profit

Cars were going to be cheaper once local manufacturing ended remember!

[Sprintey]

OK that's a bingo off topic - my partner's phone just swelled up as if pregnant as the battery decided to hara kiri, when opened up for repair we found it actually wasn't a 'brand new - unopened' phone... once bitten... noted on the Motorolas. Any good linux phones out there?

Blunnies got replaced by Rossis by all the farm crew I know over 20 years ago, sorry Tassie.

Swift would be my choice if I wanted a modern 'Mini'.

Some stuff coming into our place is good - never had induction cooktop before but it's working really well, the new heat pump is a good thing so far. Aussie made oven has been great.

Cars - went past local Toyota hoping to see it stocked to the brim with actual new cars, and kept driving, disappointed. It's a large used yard.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Cars were going to be cheaper once local manufacturing ended remember!

Laughs in $40K Corolla

[b0son]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Cars were going to be cheaper once local manufacturing ended remember!

In today's dollars, a BA XR6 would be around $60k. Just sayin..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

In today's dollars, a BA XR6 would be around $60k. Just sayin..

VF Sportwagon SV6 was $36K DA in 2017 or there about

What's that work out to be in 2024 dollars accounting for inflation?

It's a lot more car than what that money buys you now, hybrid Corolla hatch with all 72KW?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

VF Sportwagon SV6 was $36K DA in 2017 or there about

What's that work out to be in 2024 dollars accounting for inflation?

It's a lot more car than what that money buys you now, hybrid Corolla hatch with all 72KW?

$43,802.16

https://www.in2013dollars.com/austra...7?amount=36000

Bargain of a lifetime for the size, space, capability when one considers this is now XV, CX30, top end Corolla money now, and a RAV4 XSE looks like 60K+ if I want it now (48 to order pffff)

[jpd80]

Just looping back to May sales of Ranger and Everest, how valuable are those 8,000 odd buyers
when we consider the prices they paid for their vehicles is like FPV/ HSV level a few years ago.


Local manufacturing kept a lid on prices for sure but I wonder if Holden and Ford local manufacturing
had survived until now, what prices and vehicles we would be seeing considering overseas supply from
Ford Europe and USA is so terrible……
And yeah, I know that presumes a federal government that properly supports local manufacturing and jobs.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Just looping back to May sales of Ranger and Everest, how valuable are those 8,000 odd buyers ....
when we consider the prices they paid for their vehicles is like FPV/ HSV level a few years ago.

Yeah, I have similar thoughts. But that would require a production line dedicated to producing nothing but Rangers and Everests.

• The Guardian would write endless attacking articles about Ford building excessively large SUV
• The ABC would continually complain it wasn't an EV, and instead of reviewing the vehicle would spend about 95% of the word budget harping on about climate change.
• The SMH, The Age, and The Brisbane Times would never-endingly dribble Ford should be manufacturing Festivas instead
• SMH's lovechild Drive.com.au would say that Holdens are better vehicles, and that Toyota's are better built, and imply only stupid would buy a Ford
• The Vic State Government would be openly hostile to Ford for the amount of precious gas and electricity is using, and would generally make life difficult
• Unions would be endlessly complaining about the poor pay and conditions, and be on a strike roster until their demands were met
• The Greens would have a climate protest group camped out the front of the plant
• Various federal bureaucracies would occasionally "leak" plans to should it was technically feasible to convert the plant into a solar PV and battery manufacturing facility.
• All five members of "Back On Track" (a rail interest fanboi group) would be successively interviewed by the left-leaning press and get page three treatment as to why Australian manufacturing should stop producing Rangers and start producing passenger rail cars.

Absolutely no wonder as to why these vehicles are built in Thailand.

Ford did 100% the right thing by walking away ...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by whynot

Yeah, I have similar thoughts. But that would require a production line dedicated to producing nothing but Rangers and Everests.

• The Guardian would write endless attacking articles about Ford building excessively large SUV
• The ABC would continually complain it wasn't an EV, and instead of reviewing the vehicle would spend about 95% of the word budget harping on about climate change.
• The SMH, The Age, and The Brisbane Times would never-endingly dribble Ford should be manufacturing Festivas instead
• SMH's lovechild Drive.com.au would say that Holdens are better vehicles, and that Toyota's are better built, and imply only stupid would buy a Ford
• The Vic State Government would be openly hostile to Ford for the amount of precious gas and electricity is using, and would generally make life difficult
• Unions would be endlessly complaining about the poor pay and conditions, and be on a strike roster until their demands were met
• The Greens would have a climate protest group camped out the front of the plant
• Various federal bureaucracies would occasionally "leak" plans to should it was technically feasible to convert the plant into a solar PV and battery manufacturing facility.
• All five members of "Back On Track" (a rail interest fanboi group) would be successively interviewed by the left-leaning press and get page three treatment as to why Australian manufacturing should stop producing Rangers and start producing passenger rail cars.

Absolutely no wonder as to why these vehicles are built in Thailand.

Ford did 100% the right thing by walking away ...

Perfect rant good sir, the right amount of cynicism

My thoughts are pretty much exactly that but it would probably insulate Ford from the federal government introducing fuel efficiency and emissions standards that will directly effect Ranger and Everest platforms, if they were made in Australia.

The federal government now has no dog in the game to lose if they do something that effects the car manufacturers.

[GT1533]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

…….it would probably insulate Ford from the federal government introducing fuel efficiency and emissions standards that will directly affect Ranger and Everest platforms, if they were made in Australia.

If that was the case, they would have kept buying Australian made cars when they could.

[jpd80]

To be clear here, I wasn’t implying that Ford build Ranger and Everest here in Australia,
just marvelling on the fact that so much profit comes those 8,000 odd monthly sales.

The second paragraph was more about wondering what types of vehicles could have been built
here if local production has survived until today now that Ford and GM cannot supply even the basic
small and medium sized vehicles for our local Aussie markets (Focus/Mondeo and Escape/Edge)
What sort of remedies could Ford Australia have come up with now that Europe seems to be
throwing away its affordable FWD/AWD ICE/hybrid vehicles.
Could they have gotten hold of redundant platforms and stamping equipment?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by whynot

Yeah, I have similar thoughts. But that would require a production line dedicated to producing nothing but Rangers and Everests.

• The Guardian would write endless attacking articles about Ford building excessively large SUV
• The ABC would continually complain it wasn't an EV, and instead of reviewing the vehicle would spend about 95% of the word budget harping on about climate change.
• The SMH, The Age, and The Brisbane Times would never-endingly dribble Ford should be manufacturing Festivas instead
• SMH's lovechild Drive.com.au would say that Holdens are better vehicles, and that Toyota's are better built, and imply only stupid would buy a Ford
• The Vic State Government would be openly hostile to Ford for the amount of precious gas and electricity is using, and would generally make life difficult
• Unions would be endlessly complaining about the poor pay and conditions, and be on a strike roster until their demands were met
• The Greens would have a climate protest group camped out the front of the plant
• Various federal bureaucracies would occasionally "leak" plans to should it was technically feasible to convert the plant into a solar PV and battery manufacturing facility.
• All five members of "Back On Track" (a rail interest fanboi group) would be successively interviewed by the left-leaning press and get page three treatment as to why Australian manufacturing should stop producing Rangers and start producing passenger rail cars.

Absolutely no wonder as to why these vehicles are built in Thailand.

Ford did 100% the right thing by walking away ...

Magic post, we're world champions of making it hard for things built here. Extra shout out to our idiot media. I guess build it in an underground factory that's top secret, with full automation, and then if the press asks, say it has Thai influence, and shout the engineers to Tom Kha soup on Friday night.

All you have to do is build it offshore and import it, and half the criticisms vanish into thin air.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

VF Sportwagon SV6 was $36K DA in 2017 or there about

And the VE SV6 SPortswagon was around $43k in 2008, which should tell you something about the demand for the car.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

And the VE SV6 SPortswagon was around $43k in 2008, which should tell you something about the demand for the car.

Its also a wagon in the era of the SUV and Thailand Special.

But again, I don't pick cars on 'popularity', if you ask me, the average person is a moron

Got two VF Sportwagons at work as company cars - fantastic car.

Not exactly the greatest 6 cylinder engine going around but I flog the *** off them mercilessly, we've taken them into the Lerderderg Forest a few times too.

Even had one as a company car at a previous employer too

[Sprintey]

How would you rate the last Sportwagons against the Focus ST-Line wagon Franco? Which would you rather have?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

How would you rate the last Sportwagons against the Focus ST-Line wagon Franco? Which would you rather have?

SA Focus is mint cause boost and Ford Europe however wet timing belt and potato block design causing issues, pretty sure block issue is rearing its ugly head on my Fiesta ST.

Safe bet VF Sportwagon and play timing chains.

[Sprintey]

Safe for E85 play too some of them, ta!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

SA Focus is mint cause boost and Ford Europe however wet timing belt and potato block design causing issues, pretty sure block issue is rearing its ugly head on my Fiesta ST.

Safe bet VF Sportwagon and play timing chains.

Yes, word from European forums are loads of problems with 1.0 EB engine, not sure about the 1.5 I-3 EB
but the earlier 1.6/1.5 I-4 EBs seem like reliable units, Ford is really a mixed bag to buy second hand.

With VE/VF Commo, I wish they had just used the later OHV 4.3 V6 from Silverado, a reliable unit that’s
basically a 3/4 version of the LS V8.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes, word from European forums are loads of problems with 1.0 EB engine, not sure about the 1.5 I-3 EB
but the earlier 1.6/1.5 I-4 EBs seem like reliable units, Ford is really a mixed bag to buy second hand.

With VE/VF Commo, I wish they had just used the later OHV 4.3 V6 from Silverado, a reliable unit that’s
basically a 3/4 version of the LS V8.

Agree with your second paragraph but Holden in the 1990s/2000s were really interested in getting the technical jump on Ford for advertising reasons. They felt outsmarted by the DOHC VCT Barra and an OHV V6 just wouldn't excite the marketing department. Look at the absolute masterstroke they pulled convincing everyone their IRS was brilliant.

At least they had a marketing department though, unlike Ford.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes, word from European forums are loads of problems with 1.0 EB engine, not sure about the 1.5 I-3 EB
but the earlier 1.6/1.5 I-4 EBs seem like reliable units, Ford is really a mixed bag to buy second hand.

With VE/VF Commo, I wish they had just used the later OHV 4.3 V6 from Silverado, a reliable unit that’s
basically a 3/4 version of the LS V8.

I wished they'd evolved the Ecotec, keep the pushrods like the V8, make it alloy, whichever but keep it reliable.

The US yt channels seem to think there's problems with nearly all the EB motors, 3 cyl, 4cyl. The little cuts between the cylinders up in the top of the block for cooling, lol

Really like the idea of a characterful 3cyl in a Focus wagon that handles, that goes close to the 6L/100. Oh well.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I wished they'd evolved the Ecotec, keep the pushrods like the V8, make it alloy, whichever but keep it reliable.

The US yt channels seem to think there's problems with nearly all the EB motors, 3 cyl, 4cyl. The little cuts between the cylinders up in the top of the block for cooling, lol

Really like the idea of a characterful 3cyl in a Focus wagon that handles, that goes close to the 6L/100. Oh well.

Pretty sure my Fiesta is doing the cooling dramas at 230,000km

Rough idle for 20 seconds, then perfectly fine.

Split its header tank recently, put a new one on and all new hoses

Still losing coolant slowly - it's going somewhere and I reckon out the exhaust, need to do coolant system leak down test and see if it's pressurizing the cooling system. Ford has 14x engines in stock, it'll cost about $11,000 to get it sorted

Class law action against Ford in USA and Europe over Ecoboost dramas, that's why I'm hesitant to recommend to anyone which is a shame as they're mint otherwise.

Too much of a gamble with their stupid open deck block design and those coolant slots, cylinder walls are really thin at the top, also causes issues with cylinder heads warping.

Then the latter ones with the wet belt design, great work Ford Europe, maybe they hired VAG engineers.

Thinking I'll just drive it until it gets really bad then send to Sims metal for viking funeral

Should have offered GMC Syclone 4.3L turbo V6 in the Commodore on the 1990s.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I wished they'd evolved the Ecotec, keep the pushrods like the V8, make it alloy, whichever but keep it reliable.

The US yt channels seem to think there's problems with nearly all the EB motors, 3 cyl, 4cyl. The little cuts between the cylinders up in the top of the block for cooling, lol

Really like the idea of a characterful 3cyl in a Focus wagon that handles, that goes close to the 6L/100. Oh well.

I m not so sure that SA Focus 1.5 three cyl is an issue with engine.
There’s 52 pages on Whirl pool Automotive from Sa Focus owners no engine issues but some transmission issues with the eight speed torque converter.

Certainly LZ four cyl engine 1.5 eb was an issue. I had one and traded it on a Skoda Fabia three cyl wagon at 129000 had no dramas with the Lz myself but a neighbour had the motor replaced by Ford under warranty in his Lz sport.

I also think Ford got its act together with the Puma eb three cyl.

Might pay to do some research on the motor in Sa Focus- those Sa Focus wagons are a lovely car.

[Sprintey]

Thanks Kevino, it looks like a cracker little wagon. I'll go search for Whirlpool. At 20s asks for low kms currently, highs of near 30 with less 20K kms on them. Which was their original asking price

Losing water within the block is a very European thing. The Rover V8s with the later castings can get really thin in the alloy cylinder wall behind the metal sleeve, and hey presto, constantly losing a tiny bit of water, total mystery

Franco you might like this example of old school improvisation on the EB 1.0 3cyl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAVOz07tdDU

love watching how creative some guys get

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Thanks Kevino, it looks like a cracker little wagon. I'll go search for Whirlpool. At 20s asks for low kms currently, highs of near 30 with less 20K kms on them. Which was their original asking price

Losing water within the block is a very European thing. The Rover V8s with the later castings can get really thin in the alloy cylinder wall behind the metal sleeve, and hey presto, constantly losing a tiny bit of water, total mystery

Franco you might like this example of old school improvisation on the EB 1.0 3cyl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAVOz07tdDU

love watching how creative some guys get

I went to the local dealer back in 2021 to order a new SA Focus Titanium hatch for our daughter and thought they would be around the high 30's..only to find 3 in the used lot all with under 8000km and two with every option including sunroof...salesman let my daughter test drive one even though she was on L's as I said she has to like it and feel confident/comfortable...so he obliged...only asking I drive it out and head for the side streets behind before swapping over ...
They were all $28K-$29K drive away so naturally bought one saved over $10K I reckon, still got 5-year factory warranty and it's an absolute cracker of a car...maybe a little firm in the suspension but that's probably more about our neglected roads, otherwise great power, sounds great and well-built with that solid feel you just get in most euros. Should have bought two, one for my wife and kept the Territory just for me...

[Sprintey]

Thanks Dr Smith, they look great. My folks did the Euro wagon thing when we arrived in Oz with a Renault 12 so not entirely alien to it. Servicing in later life was bad though! $$$

Focus wagon looks great - would it be harder riding as ST Line?

Franco, did the Ecoboost woes extend to the 1.5 3 cylinder Dragon? Is it the wet belt, so will have to watch out for deteriorating belt if oil not kept exactly as intended? Seems to be E10 rated.

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Franco, did the Ecoboost woes extend to the 1.5 3 cylinder Dragon? Is it the wet belt, so will have to watch out for deteriorating belt if oil not kept exactly as intended? Seems to be E10 rated.

While you’re waiting for Franco, I found this article recently that ranks EcoBoost engines and mentions the known issues. It is US focused and there may be subtle differences in the engines produced in Europe.

https://www.slashgear.com/1358832/ev...engine-ranked/

[DFB FGXR6]

Now that they have snared a sizable slice of the market, the Chinese are now cashing in by bumping prices up.

".................the base price of the MG 3 rising from $18,990 drive-away to $23,990 before on-road costs."

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...cluding-hybrid

"We are pretty confident we will still be number one in this segment,” MG Motor Australia CEO Peter Ciao told CarExpert.

“We try our best to provide a better spec, better technology, and more safety for our customers. We also aggressively control our costs.

“Even when we provide a much, much better spec vehicle for our customer, we are still very confident we keep our offer… we are the best value."

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...y-mazda-suzuki

[Adamz Ghia]

At that price you’d have to have rocks in your head to buy that over a Toyota, Mazda or Kia.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

At that price you’d have to have rocks in your head to buy that over a Toyota, Mazda or Kia.

Problem is, what Mazda or Toyota are you going to buy at that price point now.

But but but, cars will be cheaper when Australia no longer makes cars?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Thanks Dr Smith, they look great. My folks did the Euro wagon thing when we arrived in Oz with a Renault 12 so not entirely alien to it. Servicing in later life was bad though! $$$

Focus wagon looks great - would it be harder riding as ST Line?

Franco, did the Ecoboost woes extend to the 1.5 3 cylinder Dragon? Is it the wet belt, so will have to watch out for deteriorating belt if oil not kept exactly as intended? Seems to be E10 rated.

Pretty sure Ecoboost Dragon has wet belt drama, then they 'fixed' the timing belt but put the oil pump drive on a wet belt setup