Road safety experts propose levy on large SUVs in city to curb rising Victorian road deaths

[lra]

Originally Posted by prydey

Anti caravan discussion is off topic

Why ?

That is why people buy big SUVs and utes / trucks, so they can tow their van, then when they get tired of living like a rich, homeless person they then have vehicle which is completely impractical in Australian citys and suburbs.
Just watch a Ranger Raptor driven by a soccer mum trying to park in the local crowded supermarket carpark. Much amusement.

[prydey]

I wonder why this minority group get so upset with other people choosing to buy a different style of vehicle to them. Maybe they weren't hugged enough as a child or something.

On my work commute I'm surrounded by vehicles of all different shapes and sizes. Trucks, buses, vans, trade vehicles, utes, suvs, passenger cars etc etc. Hardly worth getting upset over. Making assumptions as to how the vehicle is used or why it's bought is just getting you ready for an early retirement underground.

[lra]

Who is upset ?
You are the one who declared caravan discussion is off topic.
I just pointed out that caravans require a big vehicle to tow them, and perhaps drivers of these rigs need to be properly trained and competantly licenced.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by lra

Who is upset ?

The people who write the articles and the minority that agree with them.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by lra

'Road safety experts' ?
A bit like the one-man-band 'Pedestrian Safety Council' in NSW ?

But they do have a point, even if it is misdirected.
I would prefer them to look at licencing for drivers of these bigger, heavier vehicles.

It seems OK for some-one, of any age, to have driven Corolla type vehicles for any period of time, to buy a Silverado (2,540kg) or LandCruiser (2,740KG), hook up a 3,000kg caravan, plus all the necessary other items, and head off into the Great Outback with 6 tonne of high speed metal, all legally with no extra driver training.

Heavy vehicle drivers are required to have training and a relevant licence, why not drivers of these bigger vehicles

Lol....there is conjecture in your comments, no different to the authorities you critisise.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

I wonder why this minority group get so upset with other people choosing to buy a different style of vehicle to them. Maybe they weren't hugged enough as a child or something.

On my work commute I'm surrounded by vehicles of all different shapes and sizes. Trucks, buses, vans, trade vehicles, utes, suvs, passenger cars etc etc. Hardly worth getting upset over. Making assumptions as to how the vehicle is used or why it's bought is just getting you ready for an early retirement underground.

Its an attitude that permeates our culture - everyone is worried about what the other bloke is doing rather than running their own race.

My favorite example of this is the DCOA monthly compilations and you get some loser who yells out the other persons number plate like its actually going to do something or the police are going to find it.

Do I like Thailand Specials and SUVs - No.

Do I want extra levies and taxes on Thailand Specials and SUVs? Also no.

Go look at r/Melbourne on reddit and watch them froth at the mouth over American utes, there's a thread every day where people are taking photos of them in inner suburbia and all the greens voting communists come out demanding they get taken off the road, insinuating that they're compensating for lacking downstairs and all other nonsense.

You say its a minority, and sure its a minority, they tend to congregate around knife edge electorates though, ones that our state government is desperately trying to hold onto.

There's an insidious political tone to these sorts of 'issues' and everyone gets caught in the crossfire.

[AMB]

Originally Posted by prydey

.....

On my work commute I'm surrounded by vehicles of all different shapes and sizes. Trucks, buses, vans, trade vehicles, utes, suvs, passenger cars etc etc. Hardly worth getting upset over. Making assumptions as to how the vehicle is used or why it's bought is just getting you ready for an early retirement underground.

Arent we all. So you dont mind the relatively slow driver driving in the right hand lane simply becasue its the best place to drive, that's were they want to drive and bugger the rest of you.
If you choose to drive a slower heavier vehicle, especially one that blocks the view ahead, or simply choose to drive relatively slow becauase you have all the time in the world, then the rule (written and unwritten) is to keep left and dont be an inconvenience to all the other vehicles. Just beacuse the speed limit is 70 doesn't mean you can plonk yourself in the right hand lane and travel 70 all the way. It gives you the legal right, but its not the right thing to do. The worst is being an inconvenience when you are the only two vehicles on the road. In a long steam of traffic you are inconveniencing multiple vehicles, not just the one behind you.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by AMB

Arent we all. So you dont mind the relatively slow driver driving in the right hand lane simply becasue its the best place to drive, that's were they want to drive and bugger the rest of you.
If you choose to drive a slower heavier vehicle, especially one that blocks the view ahead, or simply choose to drive relatively slow becauase you have all the time in the world, then the rule (written and unwritten) is to keep left and dont be an inconvenience to all the other vehicles. Just beacuse the speed limit is 70 doesn't mean you can plonk yourself in the right hand lane and travel 70 all the way. It gives you the legal right, but its not the right thing to do. The worst is being an inconvenience when you are the only two vehicles on the road. In a long steam of traffic you are inconveniencing multiple vehicles, not just the one behind you.

Not sure what this has to do with the type of vehicle. This is a human issue, not vehicle related.

[AMB]

Originally Posted by prydey

Not sure what this has to do with the type of vehicle. This is a human issue, not vehicle related.

I thought we were talking about large suv vehicles, which I presume is referring to what I would call a monster suv. The things I consider a large SUV is starting to become medium size.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by AMB

I thought we were talking about large suv vehicles, which I presume is referring to what I would call a monster suv. The things I consider a large SUV is starting to become medium size.

Your last post was about driving behaviours, which has nothing to do with the type of vehicle.

[jpd80]

What I find funny is that pressure groups used to use a bit of guile and hide their true intent of banning vehicle types they didn’t like. Now they are so thinly veiled behind potential to kill more pedestrians and cyclists. I do feel sorry for people getting killed but it would help to look up from the phone occasionally or take the ear pods out and hear approaching traffic. Yeah, I think distraction and inattentiveness when you should be concentrating on surrounding May be moe of a key factor than the vehicles involved…

taking responsibility for own actions instead of blaming others..but then, am I blaming the victims?
There is a reason why I avoid going into the city unless absolutely necessary, I don’t like everyone else, LOL

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by randel

Can imagine it now if they make lanes or parking spots narrower. Tossers in their 'trucks' will still squeeze into them...

So, a 1868mm wide Falcon is better fit, than a 1860mm wide Ranger or a 1869mm wide Everest. Let's include a Camry at 1840 verses a Hilux at 1800, or a ZB Commie at 1863mm wide. Yep, the utes are space hogs hey?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

So, a 1868mm wide Falcon is better fit, than a 1860mm wide Ranger or a 1869mm wide Everest. Let's include a Camry at 1840 verses a Hilux at 1800, or a ZB Commie at 1863mm wide. Yep, the utes are space hogs hey?

Ruining the story with facts. How dare you.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Oh my, the voices are starting about putting extra taxes on SUVs and larger vehicles to 'reduce the road toll' in Victoria:

Whats your thoughts about the idea of levies and more expensive regos on Thailand Specials and SUVs? Would this effect your decision if you're on the SUV/Thailand Special train?

Or you'd be happy to stay on even if it costs a little more every year, if there's large vehicle levies put on in inner suburban areas?

I would pay the extra if I'm forced, I cannot see levy surcharge stopping people buying these vehicles, the whole idea is just ludicrous. If I want something I'm prepared to pay the price, no different to any type of car enthusiast who does their own thing.
To all the large SUV haters, FU.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Itsme

I would pay the extra if I'm forced, I cannot see levy surcharge stopping people buying these vehicles, the whole idea is just ludicrous. If I want something I'm prepared to pay the price, no different to any type of car enthusiast who does their own thing.
To all the large SUV haters, FU.

It only took 44 posts, before we got the first answer to the question at the end of my original post

Also curious if anyone read those news articles, because my quotes, I took them out of context and chopped them up.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Used to live in this block in London.

umm, that sign is actually 'no motor vehicles' so they don't want your Z4 down there at all

[Ben73]

I didn’t know we had this many Reddit users on here. I would have thought people who signed up to a car forum would be more understanding of the reasons why people buy a whole range of different vehicles.

[randel]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

So, a 1868mm wide Falcon is better fit, than a 1860mm wide Ranger or a 1869mm wide Everest. Let's include a Camry at 1840 verses a Hilux at 1800, or a ZB Commie at 1863mm wide. Yep, the utes are space hogs hey?

I dont know where you got your facts from, but the brochure from Ford tells me the Ranger is anywhere from 1910mm to 2208mm wide.

300 series between 1980mm and 2000mm
https://www.toyota.com.au/-/media/to...spec-sheet.pdf

Y62 1995mm
https://www.nissan.com.au/vehicles/b...-29463-0|specs

https://www.hsv.com.au/see/silverado2500/ tells me the width is 2388mm

And dont try and tell me that these American 'trucks' are not 'common' or growing in popularity in Australia. I have a mate with an F250 and 5th wheeler van - great for travelling and touring - but the F250 is a pain when you want to unhook and head to a shopping centre.

Anyone that thinks these are no wider than a sedan is delusional, but here we are.

I have no issue with them, I would buy one if I had the need. But I bought an actual truck for my needs. I have issues with the size of parking bays that developers try and squeeze into a parking lot and the types of Road Saftey Experts like in the OP with plans to make lanes narrower.

I do have issues with people calling them Trucks. "Need a new set of boots for my Truck - its a bloody ranger, not a truck!" If they are a truck, maybe you should have a 'truck' licence to drive them and tow with them.

I went to Texas a few years ago, and most parking bays are designed to easily park these things. Fantastic!

[Franco Cozzo]

One of those articles I linked to mentions car parking spaces being designed to fit an XD Falcon and the author describes one as 'quite roomy' and the first thing that comes to my mind is she's never seen an XD Falcon in her life, it's not an overly large car.

Something like a Kia Carnival would make an XD Falcon look like a Kia Picanto.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by randel

I dont know where you got your facts from, but the brochure from Ford tells me the Ranger is anywhere from 1910mm to 2208mm wide.

300 series between 1980mm and 2000mm
https://www.toyota.com.au/-/media/to...spec-sheet.pdf

Y62 1995mm
https://www.nissan.com.au/vehicles/b...-29463-0|specs

https://www.hsv.com.au/see/silverado2500/ tells me the width is 2388mm

And dont try and tell me that these American 'trucks' are not 'common' or growing in popularity in Australia. I have a mate with an F250 and 5th wheeler van - great for travelling and touring - but the F250 is a pain when you want to unhook and head to a shopping centre.

Anyone that thinks these are no wider than a sedan is delusional, but here we are.

I have no issue with them, I would buy one if I had the need. But I bought an actual truck for my needs. I have issues with the size of parking bays that developers try and squeeze into a parking lot and the types of Road Saftey Experts like in the OP with plans to make lanes narrower.

I do have issues with people calling them Trucks. "Need a new set of boots for my Truck - its a bloody ranger, not a truck!" If they are a truck, maybe you should have a 'truck' licence to drive them and tow with them.

I went to Texas a few years ago, and most parking bays are designed to easily park these things. Fantastic!

Those measurements are probably including wing mirrors, where the earlier ones are not. My territory is wider than a px3 ranger in body width.

It's funny that the dual cabs that have been here for decades get caught up in the argument around the size of the American utes.

American utes are growing in popularity but not by the amount that the authors of these articles try to make out. They do stand out on the road which can lead people to think they are more popular than they are.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

Those measurements are probably including wing mirrors, where the earlier ones are not. My territory is wider than a px3 ranger in body width.

It's funny that the dual cabs that have been here for decades get caught up in the argument around the size of the American utes.

American utes are growing in popularity but not by the amount that the authors of these articles try to make out. They do stand out on the road which can lead people to think they are more popular than they are.

American utes have been around for decades too, they stopped local production of them in 1992, and then it came back in 2001-2006 from the Brazil factory for the F250/F350.

So we've had American utes for a long time now, its just popular again now the option has been offered to our market.

Its just that they have huge street presence, so all the plebs who have no interest in cars notice them too.

Also yes those measurements include the mirrors, you need to fit those in your car parking space too

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Also yes those measurements include the mirrors, you need to fit those in your car parking space too

You have to compare apples with apples though, which was my point.

I mentioned body width regarding my territory because I'm unsure of the overall width including mirrors however I'd be surprised if it made much difference.

It's not the mirrors that make people think the cars are bigger.

[randel]

I would think the sedan measurements include mirrors as well - they have them dont they?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by randel

I would think the sedan measurements include mirrors as well - they have them dont they?

Many specs quote width, not including mirrors. The specs quoted earlier comparing sedans and suvs was comparing like for like.

[randel]

The 1910 Ranger width I quoted was without mirrors:

https://www.ford.com.au/content/dam/...ugust_2023.pdf

Dont know where 1860mm came from

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by simon varley

umm, that sign is actually 'no motor vehicles' so they don't want your Z4 down there at all

Hmmm strange cos you can see cars parked on that street. Mate tells me its part of the LTN movement (low traffic neighbourhood)

[prydey]

Originally Posted by randel

The 1910 Ranger width I quoted was without mirrors:

https://www.ford.com.au/content/dam/...ugust_2023.pdf

Dont know where 1860mm came from

RA ranger is obviously slightly wider. 1860 is for PX series.

5cm hardly noticeable.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by simon varley

umm, that sign is actually 'no motor vehicles' so they don't want your Z4 down there at all

Actually you are right there. Updated 2023 version . (looks like blue Nissan did a dodgey)

The adjacent streets all have the same. So in creating a low traffic neighbourhood, they have squeezed all the cars to, I'm assuming, one or two entry and exit points somewhere. What a great idea!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Actually you are right there. Updated 2023 version . (looks like blue Nissan did a dodgey)

The adjacent streets all have the same. So in creating a low traffic neighbourhood, they have squeezed all the cars to, I'm assuming, one or two entry and exit points somewhere. What a great idea!

image

Local traffic only?
Vehicles fitted with sensors so posts drop into ground to allow entry and exist.
Vehicles trying to travel close behind get a rude shock when post rises in front of them.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

So, a 1868mm wide Falcon is better fit, than a 1860mm wide Ranger or a 1869mm wide Everest. Let's include a Camry at 1840 verses a Hilux at 1800, or a ZB Commie at 1863mm wide. Yep, the utes are space hogs hey?

Now do these utes that have massive negative off set wheels with 33-35 inch tyres, flares, front and rear bars, lift kit as well as an awning and Maxtrax hanging off each side to complete the look.
Add in a ****tard aggressive driver who uses the thing as it’s kitted out maybe 5% of the time and it’s not hard to see where the stigma comes from tarnishing the whole segment.

But is anyone surprised? The people who demanded every one get three shots for **** all and double mask or risk losing your livihood are the same ones wanting to dictate what vehicles we own.