Best bang for your bucks small car under 25 grand poll

[old mate]

Originally Posted by mowog

Ok then... I withdraw my Sportivo comments

There is nothing in that list I would consider as a decent bang for your bucks car. All boring shopping cars...

A more interesting discussion would be...

I have $25k to spend what would be a good small performance car that wont cost a bomb to insure...?

get a R33 skyline mate and insure it third party for $240 bucks with Just Car.... i don't think it will let you down in the performance stakes!

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Steffo

That's funny. Except I wasn't being the ****er. If you knew me you'd know how I drive... bang on the speed limit in the left lane 99% of the time. He was doing the ****ing... tailgating me, flashing lights (those xenons he had on the thing were damn bright) and such. And that car sounded like it was gonna explode when he revved it off its tit to pass me.... only just... after I decided 110 in a 90 was enough for me.

Oh and with a claimed 0-100km/h time of 8.4 seconds and beasty 1/4 mile times in the 16.2 - 16.5 sec region (as found by googling Corolla Sportivo owner's forums and posts and such) I wouldn't boast too hard. Its *barely* faster then a Fez Zetec 0-100km/h and almost dead even 1/4 mile. And slower then an LS Focus. Or Golf 2.0 FSI. Or Mazda 3 2.0. All of which have almost 40kW LESS power. And some of them (Golf for example) weigh more. :

Ok you win... Google is king

[xbgs351]

Buy second hand and you should be able wipe the floor with the listed cars.

[ondori]

Honda civic, love that dash, lots of room
Citroen C2 VTR, should be on the list, very fun to drive a great car.

heres a good website anyway
http://www.discountnewcars.com.au/Ci...C2-VTR-1-6.cfm

[Pieoter]

The C2 VTR isn't too hot. The senso-drive is a very poor transmission. The VTS is the better choice, IT has more power and a real manual.

Steffo I don't know where u got your figures from but the fiesta isn't that quick. Zetec will do 0-100 in 9.9 (Ford Uk time) and 1/4mile prob 17flat. The times you posted are more along the line of the LS focus.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Pieoter

The C2 VTR isn't too hot. The senso-drive is a very poor transmission. The VTS is the better choice, IT has more power and a real manual.

Steffo I don't know where u got your figures from but the fiesta isn't that quick. Zetec will do 0-100 in 9.9 (Ford Uk time) and 1/4mile prob 17flat. The times you posted are more along the line of the LS focus.

I've seen a 9.5 0-100km/h time somewhere on this forum I believe. Regardless, the 8.4 claimed by Toyota (so in real life its probably 9.0 - 9.3) is not that big a gap over the Fez for a car with 67kW more power and 34Nm more torque. Though its girly torque, horrible chassis, not so good coefficient of drag and need to rev like mad might explain its slowness in comparison to its competitors.

I can't be bothered to dig up an older Wheels or Motor and mess up my stacks to find what they got (Wheels = 2 up, full or half tank, can't remember... Motor = 1 up, 3/4 tank I believe).

Originally Posted by mowog

Ok you win... Google is king

Only telling you the results posted on the net by other Sportivo owners. Good to see you're not impressed by them, because I'm not either.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I've seen a 9.5 0-100km/h time somewhere on this forum I believe. Regardless, the 8.4 claimed by Toyota (so in real life its probably 9.0 - 9.3) is not that big a gap over the Fez for a car with 67kW more power and 34Nm more torque. Though its girly torque, horrible chassis, not so good coefficient of drag and need to rev like mad might explain its slowness in comparison to its competitors.

I can't be bothered to dig up an older Wheels or Motor and mess up my stacks to find what they got (Wheels = 2 up, full or half tank, can't remember... Motor = 1 up, 3/4 tank I believe).



Only telling you the results posted on the net by other Sportivo owners. Good to see you're not impressed by them, because I'm not either.

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forum...showtopic=6844

[Boss 290]

hey we are going abit off topic here. I didnt start this thread to compare times of new cars to old cars. You may think this toyota sportivo shoud be in this poll, but it is not in there due to the fact it is not a new car. Its not a poll on how to spend 25 grand on a car, it's about making a poll on todays current small car range and coming up with the result. If i wanted a car that was more powerfeul and better on fuel then the cars above. i would just have up a 2002 falcon and have it converted to gas.
This is just a fun post to see what everyone thinks of todays small car market and what you all think is the best value. Im abit biased so id have to say that if i was to get a small car it would be a focus because im a ford man and the competeion would have to beat it in every catergory before id buy anything else. But i just want to see how the small cars stack up......sorry i know i have missed some cars eg bareena. i noticed after i did the poll but does anyone think it would win if it was an option?

[photn]

No.......

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Boss 290

hey we are going abit off topic here. I didnt start this thread to compare times of new cars to old cars. You may think this toyota sportivo shoud be in this poll, but it is not in there due to the fact it is not a new car. Its not a poll on how to spend 25 grand on a car, it's about making a poll on todays current small car range and coming up with the result. If i wanted a car that was more powerfeul and better on fuel then the cars above. i would just have up a 2002 falcon and have it converted to gas.
This is just a fun post to see what everyone thinks of todays small car market and what you all think is the best value. Im abit biased so id have to say that if i was to get a small car it would be a focus because im a ford man and the competeion would have to beat it in every catergory before id buy anything else. But i just want to see how the small cars stack up......sorry i know i have missed some cars eg bareena. i noticed after i did the poll but does anyone think it would win if it was an option?

I did conceed on the Sportivo thing in an earlier post your point is accpected.

But the fiesta Zetec issue is something else. The link I posted has time slips to prove times I am waiting now for timeslips on the fiesta Zetec.

The times in the link cover stock to modified cars. I dont think a stock fiesta would stand a chance of doing a sub 16 time. But I am waiting to be proven wrong.

[Zetec20]

Focus all the way! and i should know... :P

[Boss 290]

Originally Posted by mowog

I did conceed on the Sportivo thing in an earlier post your point is accpected.

But the fiesta Zetec issue is something else. The link I posted has time slips to prove times I am waiting now for timeslips on the fiesta Zetec.

The times in the link cover stock to modified cars. I dont think a stock fiesta would stand a chance of doing a sub 16 time. But I am waiting to be proven wrong.

i would think so either...i do think the focus would pull those times for sure

[xr8ute]

Definitely the Hyundai Accent....best car ever

[mowog]

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Definitely the Hyundai Accent....best car ever

You are a funny guy :MrT_anim:

[MON10A]

focus are a good little car except the indicator is on the left,every time i drive the in laws i keep using the wipers to go round corners

[Bucket]

I drove an Astra when I was visiting WA Last year..you get used to it after a while..i mean like less than a day.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by MON10A

focus are a good little car except the indicator is on the left,every time i drive the in laws i keep using the wipers to go round corners

I have the same problem with my 2 Barina's which I try not to drive because they are too slow just like Fiesta Zetec. : But at least they are Quicker than a Fiesta Zetec... :

And the Territory and the Corolla are both "Normal" indicators. But I still manage to wipe the screen in them all from time to time... :

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by mowog

The times in the link cover stock to modified cars. I dont think a stock fiesta would stand a chance of doing a sub 16 time. But I am waiting to be proven wrong.

I never said the Fiesta Zetec could do a sub 16 nor that it had a better 1/4 mile time. I did say I've beaten one in-gear, rolling start... and that the Sportivo is pretty unimpressive considering its power/weight... especially compared to its closest competitors...

141kW 180Nm, 1224kg... best thing on that site was 15.3s stock w/filter and 15.4s no mods. That I saw.

I agree the Fiesta probably can't run a sub 16. 180Nm @ 6800rpm though, makes for some horrible in-gear moves, it pretty much can't... do anything, against most cars that have a sensible torque peak and a decent amount for their weight... 146Nm @ 4000rpm with the car cruising at almost 3000rpm at freeway speeds kind of helps that battle. Weighs 1038kg too. 140.65Nm/tonne in the Fiesta and 147.05 in the Corolla. Its torque advantage is small, its torque/weight advantage is tiny... and it comes on when the Fiesta redlines. I'd expect it to lose an 80-120km/h type race in the higher gears to the Fiesta. Or anything else with decent torque at normal revs, similar weight etc. And that's exactly what happened.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by mowog

I have the same problem with my 2 Barina's which I try not to drive because they are too slow just like Fiesta Zetec. : But at least they are Quicker than a Fiesta Zetec... :

The funny thing is, the Barina will probably beat the Corolla 9 times out of 10 anyway... 165Nm @ 4600rpm, 1088kg. :

[Bucket]

My personal choice, I have gone the LS Focus Zetec in a Manual...best combination of handling and grunt for its class in my opinion.
I would get a Polo GTI if i didnt require more space

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I never said the Fiesta Zetec could do a sub 16 nor that it had a better 1/4 mile time. I did say I've beaten one in-gear, rolling start... and that the Sportivo is pretty unimpressive considering its power/weight... especially compared to its closest competitors...

141kW 180Nm, 1224kg... best thing on that site was 15.3s stock w/filter and 15.4s no mods. That I saw.

I agree the Fiesta probably can't run a sub 16. 180Nm @ 6800rpm though, makes for some horrible in-gear moves, it pretty much can't... do anything, against most cars that have a sensible torque peak and a decent amount for their weight... 146Nm @ 4000rpm with the car cruising at almost 3000rpm at freeway speeds kind of helps that battle. Weighs 1038kg too. 140.65Nm/tonne in the Fiesta and 147.05 in the Corolla. Its torque advantage is small, its torque/weight advantage is tiny... and it comes on when the Fiesta redlines. I'd expect it to lose an 80-120km/h type race in the higher gears to the Fiesta. Or anything else with decent torque at normal revs, similar weight etc. And that's exactly what happened.

Check the times down the 1/4 then get me some times for a Zetec... my guess it will still be way behind on the split times.

Have you ever driven either a Celica or Corolla with a 2ZZGE?

A 2ZZGE has a 2-3 shift point at just over 100k's so if its a rolling run a sportivo needs to go back to 3rd at 100 which puts it around 6000rpm where the high lift cam comes on, many cars are either happliy in 3 at this stage or even 4th so if a Sportivo driver picks the wrong gear then yes he is in an RPM hole untill around 5000 rpm. This is a skill factor on the drivers part not a limitation of the car.

Where things like the Fiesta are dying at 6000rpm the 2ZZGE Is coming to life in a way that is hard to explain. You will never keep up with a well driven Sportivo in your Fiesta and until you go drive a Sportivo or Celica you are only relying on what you have seen online. I have driven a Fiesta and it was removed from my list as a car to buy. for a number of reasons

Slow
Rear Drum brakes
Drove like my old Ford Ka

At the time I picked a Barina SRi over the Fiesta

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by mowog

Check the times down the 1/4 then get me some times for a Zetec... my guess it will still be way behind on the split times.

Have you ever driven either a Celica or Corolla with a 2ZZGE?

A 2ZZGE has a 2-3 shift point at just over 100k's so if its a rolling run a sportivo needs to go back to 3rd at 100 which puts it around 6000rpm where the high lift cam comes on, many cars are either happliy in 3 at this stage or even 4th so if a Sportivo driver picks the wrong gear then yes he is in an RPM hole untill around 5000 rpm. This is a skill factor on the drivers part not a limitation of the car.

Where things like the Fiesta are dying at 6000rpm the 2ZZGE Is coming to life in a way that is hard to explain. You will never keep up with a well driven Sportivo in your Fiesta and until you go drive a Sportivo or Celica you are only relying on what you have seen online. I have driven a Fiesta and it was removed from my list as a car to buy. for a number of reasons

Slow
Rear Drum brakes
Drove like my old Ford Ka

At the time I picked a Barina SRi over the Fiesta

You said it yourself. Sportivo driver is in an RPM hole until around 5000rpm. And I said it would lose in an 80-120km/h match in a higher gear, no shifting for either car, and I'm right. Whether that's a 'realistic,' measure of speed is another thing, but then again, 1/4 mile rarely applies itself to real life situations either.

I haven't driven a Sportivo with the 2ZZ, but I have been passenger to a 2ZZ fitted AW11 MR2, although that would be a different animal to the Corolla I imagine, as the whole car weighs like 800kg and its mid-engine. They are pretty gutless engines before you hit 5000-6000rpm. Its the same thing in my uncle's Ferrari F355. Before about 5000-5500rpm, it would lose to say, a VT SS. After those revs... it will beat a VY GTS300. With ease. And disappear into the distance.

Oh and the Fiesta 1.6 is one of the faster 1.6s in its class. The Barina is a 1.8. Its bigger, has more power and more torque. Of course it's faster.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The funny thing is, the Barina will probably beat the Corolla 9 times out of 10 anyway... 165Nm @ 4600rpm, 1088kg. :

Mate they dont even come close I still own 2 Barina SRi's I dont even need to get into the High Lift range (6000rpm plus) and they fade into the back ground. I even tried to keep up with my Corolla in one of the Barina's not a chance in hell of catching it.

My only mod is larger cat back system which improved the mid range.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by Steffo

You said it yourself. Sportivo driver is in an RPM hole until around 5000rpm. And I said it would lose in an 80-120km/h match in a higher gear, no shifting for either car, and I'm right. Whether that's a 'realistic,' measure of speed is another thing, but then again, 1/4 mile rarely applies itself to real life situations either.

At 8200rpm in second I am at 105klm/h a shift to 3rd puts me back at 6000rpm. at 80klm in 2nd I am at around 6000rpm 80-100 you wont keep up at 105 shift to 3rd you will be very distant in the mirror

There is no RPM hole if the car is driven properly the 5000rpm was an example of someone making a mistake. A shift at 8000rpm in each gear will put you right back in the 6000 rpm range...

MR2's with 2ZZGE's those I have seen had 5 speed gearboxes which is not a match to the 2ZZGE they need the close ratio 6 speed.

[photn]

Originally Posted by mowog

At 8200rpm in second I am at 105klm/h a shift to 3rd puts me back at 6000rpm. at 80klm in 2nd I am at around 6000rpm 80-100 you wont keep up at 105 shift to 3rd you will be very distant in the mirror

There is no RPM hole if the car is driven properly the 5000rpm was an example of someone making a mistake. A shift at 8000rpm in each gear will put you right back in the 6000 rpm range...

MR2's with 2ZZGE's those I have seen had 5 speed gearboxes which is not a match to the 2ZZGE they need the close ratio 6 speed.

so if you where cruzing on the highway and decided to race sum1 (taking into account your in your highest gear) and the person you where racing was the fiesta (which also was in the highest gear) who would win.

from steffs' stats and personal experience the fiesta would. (that is if no one changed gears leaving it in fifth)

the fiesta would accelerate faster before you even got anyware near your 5000rpm.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by photn

so if you where cruzing on the highway and decided to race sum1 (taking into account your in your highest gear) and the person you where racing was the fiesta (which also was in the highest gear) who would win.

from steffs' stats and personal experience the fiesta would. (that is if no one changed gears leaving it in fifth)

the fiesta would accelerate faster before you even got anyware near your 5000rpm.

Now the question is why would I leave my car in 6th gear if I want to accelerate. How many people do that? If the idea is beat the wally in the next lane you get your car in the best gear possible for the event. That said even at 100 in 6th or 5th the 2ZZGE is still pretty strong. I went from 90-150 in 6th the other day and I can tell you it wasn't slow getting there.

The problem with this forum is there are to many arm chair road testers.

This started with a statement that the 1/4 times were high 16's for the sportivo actual time slips showed mid 15's for stock cars just bit more to show you cant always believe what you read. A lot of manufactures understate performance to keep the insurance at reasonable rates for owners.

Some of the other critizisum of the 2ZZGE is you need to rev it to get the best from it... Well thats true but it is an absolute ball to rev the sucker out to 8200 rpm it sounds fantastic doing it. It gets to 8200rpm in a time it takes many engines to make it to an asmatic 5000-6000rpm. It doesnt die in the upper rpms like most engines it just powers on to the limiter.

Forget the fact that the 2ZZGE is in a Corolla it is a great engine even Lotus think so.

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Definitely the Hyundai Accent....best car ever

Take a good frashing hey?

[photn]

Originally Posted by mowog

Now the question is why would I leave my car in 6th gear if I want to accelerate. How many people do that? If the idea is beat the wally in the next lane you get your car in the best gear possible for the event. That said even at 100 in 6th or 5th the 2ZZGE is still pretty strong. I went from 90-150 in 6th the other day and I can tell you it wasn't slow getting there.

The problem with this forum is there are to many arm chair road testers.

This started with a statement that the 1/4 times were high 16's for the sportivo actual time slips showed mid 15's for stock cars just bit more to show you cant always believe what you read. A lot of manufactures understate performance to keep the insurance at reasonable rates for owners.

Some of the other critizisum of the 2ZZGE is you need to rev it to get the best from it... Well thats true but it is an absolute ball to rev the sucker out to 8200 rpm it sounds fantastic doing it. It gets to 8200rpm in a time it takes many engines to make it to an asmatic 5000-6000rpm. It doesnt die in the upper rpms like most engines it just powers on to the limiter.

Forget the fact that the 2ZZGE is in a Corolla it is a great engine even Lotus think so.

okay i shouldnt of used the word race. but if you both where in the highest gear which one would accelerate to a controled speed limit of 120? and your average speed is 90.

the fez sits at 2.5ish when doing 90. and hits 3k doing 100. there is alot on tap in the fez doing 3k. i dont doubt that the sportivo has alot to, but the acceration in the fez from 3k is pretty spontanious.

im sure that the fez has alot of its power(tourque) (what ever it may be) in the Mid rev range. giving it a decent amount of power for acceleration. i will admit as soon as it hits 6 theres nothing.

just my opinion.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by photn

okay i shouldnt of used the word race. but if you both where in the highest gear which one would accelerate to a controled speed limit of 120? and your average speed is 90.

the fez sits at 2.5ish when doing 90. and hits 3k doing 100. there is alot on tap in the fez doing 3k. i dont doubt that the sportivo has alot to, but the acceration in the fez from 3k is pretty spontanious.

im sure that the fez has alot of its power(tourque) (what ever it may be) in the Mid rev range. giving it a decent amount of power for acceleration. i will admit as soon as it hits 6 theres nothing.

just my opinion.

This is one of the things people dont understand about the 2ZZGE they do produce good power from 4000 rpm even down to 3500 rpm. From 90 I dont need to change down to overtake it will accellerate very well in 6th from that speed. drop to 5th and its getting pretty good.

[Rev28K]

You could make the argument that you could get the cheapest car at say 18k and throw 7k worth of performance stuff at it and still have a good car for 25k.