Cash for clunkers down under?

[Fod]

What"s the bet that the cost of a new car will increase by exactly $2000!!!

[Mick K.]

This is going to:
- help the new Chinese brands get into the market
- further hurt the resale of larger cars that don't meet the "emissions standard" (eg: Falcons and Commodores)
- put some people who can't really afford even a cheap new car into debt on dodgy motor finance loans
- cost the taxpayer more money on administration and fixes a-la insulation, etc

MK

[flappist]

FFS, what is the difference between this and the first home buyers grant.

Example.

Person is driving a 1994 Camry which is basically stuffed. They are looking at a replacement car. Their camry is worth about $500 and it would take $3000 to make it roadworthy so it is doomed.

Option 1 a NEW Focus $18000 minus $500 = $17,500 or @9% 0 resid 4 years $99 per week
Option 2 a 2 year old Focus $15,000 (av from carsales) minus $500 = $14500 under same plan $83 per week.

Option 3 NEW with $2k bonus $15,500 = $88 per week.

So under this idea for $5 per week you can have a NEW car with 3 years warranty instead of a 2 year, 50,000 km old 1 year warranty "someone else's problem".

The $11 per week saved will pay for fuel for over 100km travel.

It may come as a shock to some but is actual fact the MAJORITY of car buyers have no interest whatsoever in muscle cars, turbos, fully sick E-series or classic collectables.

This forum is full of whinging about supporting the car manufacturing industry.

Here is a newsflash....MOST FORDS ARE NOT V8 FALCONS and MOST HOLDENS ARE NOT SS COMMODORES and if FORD Australia had to survive on purely Falcon sales it would have gone splat years ago.

[GK]

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Seriously who owns a pre 1995 that can afford to buy a new car, virtually no one and what difference in $2000 gonna make when they are still 20 grand short.

Agreed. They may as well be $1,000,000 short!

Originally Posted by deesun

In reality $2k only really means you can upgrade to possibly the same model car. I agree with increasing the LPG rebate back to $2k.

For sure. People get caught in a financial situation where all they can afford to do is buy a similar aged car, or keep repairing their current car, which slowly gets more and more run down.

Another rushed ideological lamebrain idea from those who purport to know how to take the country forward.

Also, if they were so sure on how to move forward, why would they need 150 people to decide what taxes will be thrust upon the rest of the nation? Sounds like another stacked Rudd mutual admiration society 2020 talkfest!

To all this, add the Greens into the position of holding the balance of power and we really get an ideological circus! :

GK

[pottery beige]

if thats all there is.. we're stuffed....

[GS608]

I read somewhere that the only Australian built cars that are eligible for the rebate are the Hybrid Camry and 4cyl Camry, if true, why?

Surely the Government should be giving incentives to buy Australian (Falcon, Commodore, Cruze eventually etc) not Korean or Chinese!

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

I read somewhere that the only Australian built cars that are eligible for the rebate are the Hybrid Camry and 4cyl Camry, if true, why?

Surely the Government should be giving incentives to buy Australian not Korean or Chinese!

The news just said the eligible cars are based on a star ranking system based of efficiency. And the Commodore DOES NOT make it. (No word on the Falcon however).

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

1) There is absolutely no guarantee that a particular pre 1995 model, is any more thirstier on fuel, or more polluting than a current model.

.. like the example of the VY Commodore 3.8L V6 Ecotec had the best km/100 until the pathetic 3.0L SIDI; people can now scrap VYs to "step-up" to a VE which will probably use more fuel ..

[302 XC]

Great idea NOT
Lets then destroy the dismantling industries (wrecking for us oldies)
Destroy the auto parts stores (autopro/supasheep ect ect)
So you get 2K for your old clunker then,in 10-15 years time (if it can last that long)
You get 2K for that car (thats now a clunker)
And the cycle begins
If new cars werent so dear to start with,then YES we could all afford a newie

We all pay extra for running our old clunkers (well they are inefficient arent they)
When we put fuel in them
So if we become a country drivin wittle 4 bangers,less fuel sales
HMM,
Heres an idea ,Jack the fuel up
Just on this oldies are inefficient
I was getting 10l/100klm travelled in a 1983 4spd diesel nissan 4x4 !!!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

I read somewhere that the only Australian built cars that are eligible for the rebate are the Hybrid Camry and 4cyl Camry, if true, why?

Surely the Government should be giving incentives to buy Australian (Falcon, Commodore, Cruze eventually etc) not Korean or Chinese!

The Cruze should be just reaching local production when this scheme comes in and it qualifies...Good timing.

[davexb]

Crap cars shouldnt be on the road full stop, that y we have coppers. We dont need some poli giving us a serve to keep the greenies happy. Plant some trees Julia, I wont be voting for u!

[Marquis 351]

Silly idea.. in the uk they offer 2000 pounds or aprox $4500 scrapage. Not sayin that was a good idea either. But if its a green issue, a good idea like in the uk, is the way they tax [ rego] their cars. The lower the co2 emissinons the cheaper the rego is. Certain Seat's the owners pay no tax [rego] on their cars. Most other like VW [Audi Skoda] Ford, Vauxhall and Renault pay mayb only $100 per year. Most of them diesel both 4 and 6 cly. And havin been there recintly seriously out preform omst aussie cars, and also havin the benafit of around 40-60 mpg.

[Casper]

At least its a step up from $260K school toilet blocks, an internet filter that wont work or burning my house down with dodgy insulation.
Good to see Labor are moving up from completely incompetent to ... ok, still completely incompetent. Useless bunch of gits. Anyone can tell this is a vote grab because it has no significant chance of changing CO2 outputs by any real amount. Just another $400million of our money down the toilet.

[Matt P]

Originally Posted by flappist

FFS, what is the difference between this and the first home buyers grant.

Example.

Person is driving a 1994 Camry which is basically stuffed. They are looking at a replacement car. Their camry is worth about $500 and it would take $3000 to make it roadworthy so it is doomed.

Option 1 a NEW Focus $18000 minus $500 = $17,500 or @9% 0 resid 4 years $99 per week
Option 2 a 2 year old Focus $15,000 (av from carsales) minus $500 = $14500 under same plan $83 per week.

Option 3 NEW with $2k bonus $15,500 = $88 per week.

So under this idea for $5 per week you can have a NEW car with 3 years warranty instead of a 2 year, 50,000 km old 1 year warranty "someone else's problem".

The $11 per week saved will pay for fuel for over 100km travel.

It may come as a shock to some but is actual fact the MAJORITY of car buyers have no interest whatsoever in muscle cars, turbos, fully sick E-series or classic collectables.

This forum is full of whinging about supporting the car manufacturing industry.

Here is a newsflash....MOST FORDS ARE NOT V8 FALCONS and MOST HOLDENS ARE NOT SS COMMODORES and if FORD Australia had to survive on purely Falcon sales it would have gone splat years ago.

My issue is where is the money comming from, more things I have to fund for others.

[mik]

400 million is that the limit of the grant? if i`m not mistaken thats enough for 200000 grants, if the grants are restricted to certain vehicle makes, i`m guessing a lot of people won`t be takeing it up, perhaps they are counting on that.

[Gaz]

Not gonna be great seeing that many car yards (ok 2 I know of in perth) offer a minimum 3k trade and 5k trade respectively.

[XRtowcar]

I like the idea of getting all P plate driven VN and VL Commodores off the road.
Especially as they can only get into green cars.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

I like the idea of getting all P plate driven VN and VL Commodores off the road.
Especially as they can only get into green cars.

Except when you have 20,000 P platers driving around in new cars with no insurance because they can't afford it or not driving at all because they could only afford a VN/L and there is none left to buy. I just paid 6 months of comprehensive insurance and it set me back $1040 for only 50% usage.

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by SVR73

theres nothing in the aussie new car market that I want to buy.
old cars are more fun. my next car will be an old school muscle car to accompany the AU

Got that right, they could offer 200K and I won't swap my ute for it.

Ed

[Paull]

Building Education Revolution = buying jobs (nothing to do with education) hence why it is called the Builders Early Retirement scheme
Insulation scam, sorry scheme = buying jobs, nothing to do with the environment
Cash for Clunkers = buying jobs, nothing to do with environment.

You would have thought that by now, Labor would know that continually buying jobs will send us all bankrupt???

[naddis01]

I think everyone is missing a major part of this announcement. That being...

Ms Gillard also announced new mandatory fuel efficiency standards for all new cars from 2015.

Does anyone have any more detail on this? Would this be related to Euro V? What are the fuel efficiency standards?

Edit: Here are some extracts from...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34789193/C...ate-Fact-Sheet

Improving the efficiency of our vehicle fleet
Older vehicles emit higher levels of carbon dioxide than newer vehicles, clogging
our atmosphere with harmful pollution. They also hit motorists at the petrol
station because they are less fuel-efficient, costing more for every kilometre
driven.

Households that trade in a car manufactured before 1 January 1995 will be eligible for a $2,000 rebate when they purchase a new car that has a Green Vehicle Guide greenhouse rating of six or higher (see
www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au). This is an important measure for reducing the age of the Australian car fleet
compared with other countries. While the average age of cars in Australia fell
from 10 years to 9.7 years between 2004 and 2009, this was still higher than
recent measurements in countries such as the United States (9.4 years in 2008),

Cleaner Car Rebate 2 Julia Gillard and Labor Let’s move Australia Forward the European Union (15 members) (8 years in 2008) and Japan (6.2 years in 2002).

How it will work
Individuals who meet the following criteria will be eligible under the scheme.
The trade in vehicle must:
 Be a passenger vehicle.
 Have been manufactured before 1 January 1995.
 Have been continuously registered and insured by the individual trading in the vehicle for at least 24 months prior to the date of trade in.
 Be petrol or diesel-fuelled.

The new vehicle must:
 Be a passenger vehicle.
 Be purchased by the individual trading in the older car - businesses and fleet purchases are not eligible.
 Have a minimum Green Vehicle Guide greenhouse rating of six or higher–
this is equivalent to 220 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre, which is
around the Australian fleet-wide average.
 Not incur the Luxury Car Tax.

Eligible cars include:
 Toyota Hybrid Camry.
 Holden Cruze.
 Ford Falcon EcoBoost.
 Toyota Corolla.
 Mazda 3.
 Mitsubishi Lancer.
 Hyundai Getz.

No mention of the fuel efficiency targets that are meant to be implented by 2015.

[xtgt1968]

This is the part of the press release that concerns me. "Ms Gillard also announced new mandatory fuel efficiency standards for all new cars from 2015."

Pray tell us NOW Ms Gillard what those standards will be in 2015? Or do we have to wait for a Citizens Forum of 150 wise Greenies to decide, as with the ETS. Between Ms Gillard and Bob Brown, will those standards mean that turbo six and V8 new cars will be forced off Australian roads. Will we be driving pedel cars?

Anyway, I'm a carbon sceptic untill someone answers the following question:-

An area in China is presently undergoing an archaeological dig. It contains burial sites where bodies (mummies) have been found with similar burial practices to those in Ancient Egypt. This area was inhabited by an advanced civilisation with irrigation, farming and all types of infrastructure. The area died 4000 years BC due to climate change. Up to that point, it had been located in a fertile region of China which turned into a desert at that time. In 4000BC, when this area in China experienced climate change and the region turned into China's harshest desert, the following conditions existed:-
The world population was small; there were no power stations; the were no cars; there were no emissions from the petroleum industry and its products; coal was not mined on the scale it is today; no aviation industry existed; no electricity, or modern cities using huge amounts of power to operate infrastructure existed; no nuclear testing or a war industry on the scale we now have existed; the Amazon rain forest which is the world's lungs for absorbing CO2, had not been damaged;

How about the carbon spewed out by the Iceland volcano recently? In the 1700s, that same volcano erupted for 3 years and has emitted more carbon than man has in all of history.

In view of the above, what man made factors caused climate change back then and what would an ETS have been levied on to prevent climate change 6000 years ago?

Sceptic

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Matt P

My issue is where is the money comming from, more things I have to fund for others.

From the money tree of course......

If not used for this it will be wasted on something else. How about insulation in the roofs of new school halls to be built in schools that are closed. Or maybe some hospital payroll systems.

I have heard that speed cameras are nearly as good a profit centre as cigarettes, poker machines and casinos maybe we vould buy a few hundred thousand more of them......

[nstg8a]

Eligible cars include:
 Toyota Hybrid Camry.
 Holden Cruze.
 Ford Falcon EcoBoost.
 Toyota Corolla.
 Mazda 3.
 Mitsubishi Lancer.
 Hyundai Getz.

falcon ecoboost? is it on sale now?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Eligible cars include:
 Toyota Hybrid Camry.
 Holden Cruze.
 Ford Falcon EcoBoost.
 Toyota Corolla.
 Mazda 3.
 Mitsubishi Lancer.
 Hyundai Getz.

falcon ecoboost? is it on sale now?

That is fantastic news for the Falcon! That list cant be it all the cars though, I can think of a lot more vehicles which would have better emissions - where is the Suzuki Alto or Nissan Micra, I assume this must be eligible cars in the current top 10.

[XRGhia]

Thank god my EF2 is a very very very late 1996 model (one of the last 50 ef's made)

[GTENVY]

[Quote] The $394 million cost of the scheme will be financed by cuts in several other climate programs, including $220 million coming off the solar flagship program.

I agree with alot of the post here so far. The one line quoted that has me concerned the most is above. Motor vehicles as everyone knows emit bugger all compared to our coal powered power stations.

First the labour govt decide to means test to solar rebate, disencouraging those that would be in a better position affordability wise to go solar and now they are taking it away fully.

They are trying to put a new scheme in place (in the process of going through parliment etc) but the 'new' rebate will be less and the amount will also depend on which city/town you live in and that's even if the laws that are passed.

This govt moves from policy to policy like it a child playing with a different toy every two seconds. Unbelieveble!

rant over.

[Luke Plaizier]

I wonder if Territory Diesel would get on the list?


Lukeyson

[TurboUteris]

1. They take us for fools offering only 2k
2. Blatant grab at green votes
3. Gillard is a muppet

[burnz]

Originally Posted by kingy351

I can see alot of concern within the green ranks. On one hand they'll want to support it, on the other they won't because most of them own something built before 1994!

so when they crush their car's into a cube the police bust the wreckers for a 1 tonne block of hashish.