Holden's Daewoo gamble beginning to go sour?

[Noddy]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

16.4 when fully laden.

Yeah missed that, still 12.5 is still on the slow side for a six be it a 2L, camry's will run to 100 in 9.5.

[1 dvs 4d]

You can argue Holden v Ford, Korean V European all day and just go in circles.
The story i got from a sales manager at a major Sydney Holden dealer I do work for was that they, went with Daewoo to supply the small/ medium cars due to the fact they can sell the cars cheaper to compete with Hyundai/ Kia and therefore make Barina's etc more appealing to younger buyers. IE Daddies princess can have a Daewoo built Barina for the same price as a Getz etc or used car, but it has the Holden badge just like Daddies Statesman, and you have to agree there is a hell of a lot of young Holden owners out there.

Holden hopes to get people into the brand young and keep them there as they grow older. Ford could do a similar thing but their marketing clout is just not there at the moment, which is a shame because the product is a damn sight better than what altrernatives are on the market now.

And in daewoo's defence I always thought they were cheap sh**boxes, but my new girls daewoo has done 170,000 fault free kms with the only expense being tyres. The only work required is a new rear muffler (typical Lanos problem due to the tailpipe trapping water) and new rear wheel bearings. If they brush up the quality a bit they will be a much better car

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by 1 dvs 4d

Holden hopes to get people into the brand young and keep them there as they grow older. Ford could do a similar thing but their marketing clout is just not there at the moment, which is a shame because the product is a damn sight better than what altrernatives are on the market now.

Very true.

The only gamble going on between Ford and Holden would be Ford gambling on acheiving sales of the premium priced euro-fords against their Japanese and Korean competitors. Ford is hoping that some people will be willing to pay a premium for their South African built euro cars on the basis of better quality and dynamics.

Time will tell if this gamble pays off.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by Noddy

Yeah missed that, still 12.5 is still on the slow side for a six be it a 2L, camry's will run to 100 in 9.5.

12.5 to 100 is pretty damn disgraceful for a 6 cylinder pasenger car in the year 2007 - no doubt due to the pathetic "power" output it produces...At least it lives up to its name "an epic journey to the speed limit"

[flukey77]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I doubt quality issues would be a factor just yet. If people were stupid enough to buy them before, nothing has changed to stop that yet.

I cant believe Ford are so soft when it comes to marketing. An example would be that Captiva add, where Holden takes a blatant shot of the Territory in terms of fuel consumption. (even though people with half a brain will see that the Terry is a much bigger car with more capability).

Ford need to have a stab at Holden small car origins, or safety ratings, or something; they are just letting them get away with it at the moment.

Dam straight mate, i totally agree. I have been saying for ages that Ford needs to get some burn advertising happenning and take a stab at holden about the shortfalls of their Korean built cars! Although it looks like Holden might be suffering the results of that on their own. They should even have a stab about the fact that the Alloytec isnt even designed over here, unlike the Barra. I hate the fact that everyone thinks that holden are Australian when any Falcon is far more Australian than any Commodore.

The new Epica ad cracks me up, "With its epic Holden performance!"
What, does that mean its gonna be gutless as well?

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by flukey77

I hate the fact that everyone thinks that holden are Australian when any Falcon is far more Australian than any Commodore.

I don't know, but I think it's only the uneducated, and bogans who seem too think that.

I can tell you now, the day I found out Commodores were German, I went 'meh' and moved on, too buy a VL anyway.

As for the Epica, total laughing stock. It's a 2.0L-2.5L 6 that makes as much power as a VK/VL.

There's nothing epic about it, and I agree about the epic journey too the speed limit lol good call too whoever said it.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Ryan

I don't know, but I think it's only the uneducated, and bogans who seem too think that.

I can tell you now, the day I found out Commodores were German, I went 'meh' and moved on, too buy a VL anyway.

As for the Epica, total laughing stock. It's a 2.0L-2.5L 6 that makes as much power as a VK/VL.

There's nothing epic about it, and I agree about the epic journey too the speed limit lol good call too whoever said it.

Nah I think everyone missed the point here.
What they mean is that the Epica takes as long as one of those old Epic films (Lawrence of Arabia) to get to the speed limit.
0-110km/h; done and dusted in 2 and a half hours.

[AU-MUSTD]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

The one i drove felt cheap in comparison to the Ford, plus it had **** all power when it came to overtaking, id rate the car 4 out of 10 while id give my territory 7 / 10.

Comes down to personal opinion i guess, but I couldnt bare to put up with something that had the equipment level of my AU XR6.

The only time power is lacking is between 110-120 because of the gearing but if done manualy has plenty. And from take off they easily account for the std terrys to the speed limit. My only gripe that i'd consider cheap is the feel of the leather is like cardboard but hopefully that'll wear well as bieng a plumber it'll never be clean. As for equipment level of an au xr6 did you mean the terry cause thats how old they are now?? Because the captiva has some pretty serious equipment if you care to check and compare the specs. I'd give the terry 7/10 for design but 3/10 for quality in executing it. So far i'd rate captiva 7/10 for design and 7/10 for execution but only time will be the real judge.

[AU-MUSTD]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Very true.

The only gamble going on between Ford and Holden would be Ford gambling on acheiving sales of the premium priced euro-fords against their Japanese and Korean competitors. Ford is hoping that some people will be willing to pay a premium for their South African built euro cars on the basis of better quality and dynamics.

Time will tell if this gamble pays off.

People wont buy premium in droves from ford or holden untill the lift there service game. Personally the difference between service of our subaru compared to my ford's and holden's has been miles apart and is only getting worse. At my last service the car was left filthy in/out and the hire car was 6 tears old at holden but the subaru came back fully vacced , washed, dried door jam's underbonnet etc... and the hire car was there newest model. They realy do make you feel good about ownership.

[Cuey]

All this is well and good, but it all depends on whether the public notice the figures

We all know about Holden and their marketing

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Ryan

I don't know, but I think it's only the uneducated, and bogans who seem too think that.

I can tell you now, the day I found out Commodores were German, I went 'meh' and moved on, too buy a VL anyway.

As for the Epica, total laughing stock. It's a 2.0L-2.5L 6 that makes as much power as a VK/VL.

There's nothing epic about it, and I agree about the epic journey too the speed limit lol good call too whoever said it.

Both companies are the Australian arms of American multinationals, so whats the difference?

Up until the VZ Holden used a platform from its parent company.
Ford has used styling cues and designers from its parent company.

Hate rice instead,

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by vztrt

FF has it just been this month that the sales have dropped or has this been getting lower and lower every month?

Their figures have been down for a number of months but April was a huge drop for both models. I don't know if it was a supply problem so I will wait for the May numbers to confirm if this is the norm or just an aberation.

FF

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Noddy

This says it all, the epica does 16.4 to a 100kph in their tests and is thirsty.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...parisonID=1029

As if 100 wasn't boring enough : . My 89kw TX5 would kill that easily loaded back in 1989.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by ltd

How typical of Holden to rubbish the opposition, the cheapest and most offensive form of marketing available. For Holden this form of marketing is something that they should stay away from, especially when their main product (commonwhore) is less fuel efficient than their competition. If Holden had any brains they would pull the ad and STFU about fuel efficiency; atleast Ford can soon come about and bite them in the you know what with the BF, BF2 and Orion when it comes to fuel economy.

I laugh my guts out every time I see that stupid Epica ad, and those words "effortless power" - what, all 105kw of them? What a joke. They also have a 2.5 litre engine making a whopping 115kw. Fuel efficiency on this little gem is still a mile off from the Camry, yet the camry makes the same power out of a 4 cylinder engine. Watch how few people buy the crappy epica.

Predictions: Holden will eventually WANT to go back to the Opel sourced cars, as people will not fully embrace the Koreans due to resale value and the perception of a cheap and nasty Holden. Captiva may woo a couple of thousand buyers, but the market it's aimed at is purely for the family which means it's going to be subjected to size comparisons. This will see alot of people end up in a territory or a similarly larged car. So FF is right, and the Korean AWD will get over its New Kid On the Block syndrome, especially when people try to resell it later on. The Captiva will eventually go the way of the crewman when the terry diesel comes out.
Finally, the VE hasn't done as well as first hoped and Holden has already started heavy discounting to fleets. Watch the VE2 come out in February next year in order to pip the Orion launch, however watch what Holden sales do with Orion as fleets move to the more modern, more fuel efficient Falcon. Compared to Orion the commodore looks quite dated, and the antiquated drive train will ensure that Holden has to spend money in order to compete. At the moment, the VE is still celebrating its Honeymoon period, and for all intents and purposes the VE is the Kevin Rudd of cars. All flash, all new and full of shyte.

Great post, but you really should keep the political slander out of it. It sorta cheapened what you had to say.

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Great post, but you really should keep the political slander out of it. It sorta cheapened what you had to say.

agreed good post let down by a bad one liner

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by tx3dude

agreed good post let down by a bad one liner

LMAO, I just noticed it and that's gold. Sig worthy but I like mine at the moment :

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Their figures have been down for a number of months but April was a huge drop for both models. I don't know if it was a supply problem so I will wait for the May numbers to confirm if this is the norm or just an aberation.

FF

Well thats what I'm thinking, if the numbers are slowly dropping off than it's more likely that buyers are staying clear of the model. But a sudden drop would more than likely be a supply issue.
I unfortunatly dont get the sales data anymore :

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Their figures have been down for a number of months but April was a huge drop for both models. I don't know if it was a supply problem so I will wait for the May numbers to confirm if this is the norm or just an aberation.FF

Yeah I think your jumping the gun a bit.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Great post, but you really should keep the political slander out of it. It sorta cheapened what you had to say.

Not if you agree with it :

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Not if you agree with it :

Boy you guys are in for a shock later this year. : But really, this is a good, interesting read. There was no need to bring down the tone with the political quip...... like I just did....

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Well thats what I'm thinking, if the numbers are slowly dropping off than it's more likely that buyers are staying clear of the model. But a sudden drop would more than likely be a supply issue.
I unfortunatly dont get the sales data anymore :

I'll be back posting monthly sales numbers from the 6th June. It will be interesting to see what the new sales figures reveal.

FF

[geoffa1]

There is a fundamental problem with a big lump of the population - if the badge says Holden, it is made in Australia.

The same people are convinced that Camrys are made in Japan 'cos they're Toyotas.

I still can't convince my sister that her Holden Cruze has almost the same panel work as a Suzuki Ignis and was made on the same production line.

[lotto]

the world car market is changing- i just watched a show on sbs-called 'future car'

the possiblity that in the future that there could be a lot less brands or copies of the same car,in an even more mass produced manufacturing than what we have now.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by geoffa1

There is a fundamental problem with a big lump of the population - if the badge says Holden, it is made in Australia.

It is because we live in a society where perception is more important than reality.

I recently had a work colleague tell me that Ford should ditch the in-line six cylinder engine because it was old and go to a new V6 engine. What he refused to acknowledge was that this OLD I6 engine was giving Holden's NEW V6 a good run for its money.

FF

[tapeworm]

Holden definately rule in the perception and marketing stakes. Geoffa1 summed it up most people see a Holden badge and think Australian.

[flukey77]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

It is because we live in a society where perception is more important than reality.

I recently had a work colleague tell me that Ford should ditch the in-line six cylinder engine because it was old and go to a new V6 engine. What he refused to acknowledge was that this OLD I6 engine was giving Holden's NEW V6 a good run for its money.

FF

Oh this cheeses me off ay!! I have been hearing this for years from people who cant accept that the Falcon I6 is a quality Australian motor, and who think that the Commodore V6 is the bees knees and is an Australian motor. My old man was a Holden fan through and through until he actually looked at the reality. I mean you only have to drive both to instantly know that the ecotec and even the alloytec to a lesser extent arent a bar on the barra.

[Mongoose]

Originally Posted by geoffa1

There is a fundamental problem with a big lump of the population - if the badge says Holden, it is made in Australia.

The same people are convinced that Camrys are made in Japan 'cos they're Toyotas.

I still can't convince my sister that her Holden Cruze has almost the same panel work as a Suzuki Ignis and was made on the same production line.

Not to mention all my friends at school who HONESTLY BELIEVE the RODEO is AUSTRALIAN! and that just goes to show how ignorant some people are, they look at the badge and its automatically a holden

[sleekism]

Don't even try to explain to a Holden enthusiast that the Barra is a better design to the Alloytec unless you wan't to cop a lot of abuse.

The only thing that helps me sleep at night is that all my friends who like Holden work at Coles, Dominos or are on the dole.

All my friends who like Fords are either at university or doing a diesel mechanic or fitter/turner apprenticeships.

A few years down the track who is going to be looking in the new car section and who is goin to be struggling to buy a ex-fleet 3rd hand car with 200,000 on the clock?

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Don't even try to explain to a Holden enthusiast that the Barra is a better design to the Alloytec unless you wan't to cop a lot of abuse.

I would imagine the reaction would be the same as trying to explain to a Ford enthusiast that the Alloytec is a better design to the Barra :P.

(The Barra is better IMHO, just pointing out that everyone expresses their own opinions and judgement)

[FlipXW]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

I would imagine the reaction would be the same as trying to explain to a Ford enthusiast that the Alloytec is a better design to the Barra :P.

(The Barra is better IMHO, just pointing out that everyone expresses their own opinions and judgement)

Anyone with brains knows barra is better :P. The holden supporters with brains will tell you that fords barra is better but most holden supporters have no clue at all and just follow the majority. Everyone knows that holden has been whopping ford in the V8 department for years but u dont hear many ford fans trying to tell you different. In my experience just with my friends anyone with any mechanical smarts about them follow ford and the kids with no idea support holden with no claims to back up their argument except for the usual we sell more cars so we must be better and we win bathurst all the time. Now we can see how this has and will continue to snowball if generations of kids grow up on this beleife. The V8 gettin smashed by holdens in magazines reviews and on the steet and the lack of bathurst wins is whats affecting our image at the moment especially in the eyes of young people and people that believe a v8 supercar is as falcon or commodore as the one sitting in your driveway. I think bathurst is a main one as if you ask, nearly everyone will tell you who won bathurst but only the followers will be able to tell you who won at eastern creek etc.. bathurst wins would sell alot of cars to the majority i think (the majority being people with no idea about cars) and maybe convert some of the kids these days to ford.