Rant: Motorcycle/Scooter Riders in city

[XA Coupsta]

Originally Posted by flappist

Get along with everyone else it will be better in the long run.

Oh and as you do not ride I will explain it to you. The reason why WE push to the front is so we lessen the chance of getting run over and killed by doof doof texting ipoding mutant bogan idiot p-plate dropkicks in modded riced up falcon/commy/jap thing/korean thing who spend most of their time looking EVERYWHERE except the road ahead because they are expert drivers.......

Great post Flappist.

I ride. You bet I lane split. For pretty much the reasons mentioned by (funnily enough) all the riders!

Im yet to see one valid reason from Cagers why we shouldnt lane split again.

In fact there are some pretty damn poor (and scary) reasons coming up - which for me further reinforces my decision to lane splitting in the first place.

To get the hell away from people in cars with attitudes like that........

[Grum]

You’ve all missed the point. The original posters rant was aimed at the growing number of inner city commuters who have taken to driving cheap motorbikes and scoters to work in the city NOT sports bike enthusiasts that can actually ride.

Unless you drive through the city CBD you probably have no idea what is being complained about. They are mainly city people looking for cheap transport or something that doesn’t need a parking spot and unfortunately a scooter is the answer to this. The sad part is they can’t operate their choice of transport ie; they try to lane split but struggle to steer a straight line. They are given away by their choice of riding gear, since when did it become safe to ride in a suite and dress shoes or a mini skirt and high heals???

The fact you are all so defensive and upset speaks volumes…

[colossus]

Originally Posted by Grum

The fact you are all so defensive and upset speaks volumes…

You'd probably be defensive too if someone started a thread about how Falcon's give them the sh$%^'s...

I take the point about scooter newbs having not much of an idea (mainly the ones who live in the inner city and think their trendy) but these threads always turn into a massive sh$% fight because some uneducated tool will come on spouting off about bikes who has no idea.

Fact is most things with 2 wheels are going to out accellerate, and out manouver a car. If something goes wrong its the bike/scooter rider that cops the short end of the stick so I just don't get it why car drivers whinge so much. Lane splitting actually reduces traffic congestion for car drivers as:
1) Less cars on the road
2) Filtering to the front makes the que shorter for everyone else

[Grum]

Originally Posted by colossus

You'd probably be defensive too if someone started a thread about how Falcon's give them the sh$%^'s...

No, I'm happy with my choice or transport and have nothing to feel guilty about.

Also worth noting that this is a car forum not a bike forum. I'm sure there are reciprocal threads on countless bike forums.

Fact is most things with 2 wheels are going to out accellerate, and out manouver a car.

Fact: a lot of riders CAN NOT out accellerate and out manouver a car.

Yes the bike can but the riders in question can't ride. Scoters don't move of the line that well...

If something goes wrong its the bike/scooter rider that cops the short end of the stick so I just don't get it why car drivers whinge so much.

Yes riders are more likely to get hurt. Smokers are more likely to die too, the risks are known but they still want a lung transplant

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Grum

Scoters don't move of the line that well...

Now you know how it feels for bike riders to be stuck behind cars then don't you. And all but the abolute slowest budget scooters will still easily accelerate away from the lights quicker than average traffic.

[Squalo]

Originally Posted by Grum

You’ve all missed the point. The original posters rant was aimed at the growing number of inner city commuters who have taken to driving cheap motorbikes and scoters to work in the city NOT sports bike enthusiasts that can actually ride.

Unless you drive through the city CBD you probably have no idea what is being complained about.

Grum, sorry if my last post was a bit rude, no offense intended.

I drive or ride into Sydney CBD every day, and most weekends (I drive if I'm taking my kids to daycare) so I have a pretty good idea of how it is. Personally, I don't think it's a problem - you just allow for the scooter, and go on your way. Of course I cringe when I see what they wear, but it's up to them.

My only hard rule on gear is this - if you want to ride with me, you'd better be geared up, otherwise I'm going in the opposite direction. I have no interest in cleaning up the mess when an under-dressed rider comes off.

Many cities elsewhere in the world have been full of scooters for decades - they realise the benefits of small economical vehicles that can be parked anywhere. Sydney hasn't, despite its great riding weather - largely because of the bad attitudes of car drivers towards two-wheeled transport. Exhibit A m'lud - this topic...

[Grum]

Originally Posted by Squalo

Grum, sorry if my last post was a bit rude, no offense intended.

Many cities elsewhere in the world have been full of scooters for decades - they realise the benefits of small economical vehicles that can be parked anywhere. Sydney hasn't, despite its great riding weather - largely because of the bad attitudes of car drivers towards two-wheeled transport. Exhibit A m'lud - this topic...

Squalo, no offence taken. It’s a passionate discussion and I'm not one to cry about it anyway lol

You last point about the bad attitude of drivers is true but sadly this attitude has built up due to the bad behaviour of a minority of riders. It’s very similar to car enthusiast being tarnished with the same brush as car hoons but it’s hard to change the mind of an uninformed individual.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Grum

They are given away by their choice of riding gear, since when did it become safe to ride in a suite and dress shoes or a mini skirt and high heals???

I don't see a mini skirt in that pic, please post up the mini skirt riders, just to prove you're point of course.

[lostdude]

I don't have a problem with bike riders if they lane split WHILE the traffic has stopped or is stationary but often you get idiots trying to get past when the traffic has already started moving.
But the worst i've seen was a cyclist riding on the hume highway near liverpool during afternoon peak hour. :

[Outbackjack]

There will always be ickheads on the road. Be it on a bike or in a car. We often see you tube type videos posted with moron car drivers.... Well look at what these two get up to, and check what they are wearing.

http://thatvideosite.com/video/4998

Every car driver needs to accept the fact that there are going to be more and more scooters and motor cycles on the road. The vast majority will be decent people just trying to make a living and get ahead in this world. In the Alice a 16 year old can get a scooter permit after doing a M.E.T.A.L. course. We are seeing more and more "kids" commuting to and from school on these little bikes. I was following one the other day. He was doing 60 on a 70 road, he moved well over to the left so I could pass. I didn't bother passing, I just held back until our paths parted. I have seen scooter riders filter to the front of red light queues but only on the far left. I have never seen one come into the centre of two lanes at the lights. Lots of biger bikes have, thats no problem, most of them are gone by the time car drivers have taken their foot off the clutch.

Bikes are here to stay, their numbers are going to double over the next 10 or so years. We had all better learn to get along together.
We also need to get the idiots like in the above video off the road for good.

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by Grum

Fact: a lot of riders CAN NOT out accellerate and out manouver a car.

Not so in many cases. 4 tyres of grip is better than 2.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Conrad

Not so in many cases. 4 tyres of grip is better than 2.

Power to weight. The start the middle and the end. Four tyres has little to do with it.

[XR8putts]

I am not a big fan of our two-wheeled friends also.

I don't believe there is a need for them to lane split, and yes I have ridden a motorbike in various settings.

I have this arguement with bike nuts all the time, they always tell me that car drivers need to treat a bike as a car, give them room, etc. I'll treat them like a trucking car when they act like a trucking car; cars don't lane split.

I can almost understand lane spliting at lights, whilst the cars are stationary. Fine.

But to Flappist and the rest, how do you feel about lane-spliting in slow moving traffic? Nothing ****es me off more on the roads. Nothing.

I use the motorways a lot, in peak hour traffic - very low speeds on the motorway. Every 2 minutes a biker will lane split whilst the two cars in the legitmate lanes are doing around 20km/h. This is very, very dangerous. A car is allowed to be anywhere in a lane, what if one car is to the far right of his lane and another in to the far left of their lane (they're doing nothing wrong, this is common) and a lane splitter is approaching them 20km/h faster?

I have had a lane spliter scratch my rear quater and fold my mirror forwards whilst he was lane spliting in rush hour, I was doing around 20 km/h. He looked back, and bolted, there was nothing I could do as traffic was a slow moving grid lock. $700 worth of damage.

I feel sorry for the good bikers out there, the considerate ones that don't think they own the road and are the fastest things out - I think they're great. Unfortunately, they're in the minority.

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by SlikedTurb

Typical "all about ME" mentallity.

"I've got to be there in the lightning fast time so i'm going to break the law to do it. STUFF everybody else. Who cares about them."

*I* have to survive and avoid being hit by 2 tonne of steel/aluminium/plastic driven by *you*. Perhaps you can understand how motorcyclists are all about *me* in traffic... Its not about getting anywhere faster you idiot.

[XR8putts]

Originally Posted by kaldek

I am certainly not "fecking about", but if I wanted to take 1-2 hours to get to the city I may as well also drive a car. Getting there in 40 minutes requires lane splitting.

And there it is.

Don't rant on about safety, because lane spliting moving traffic is not about safety. It's about getting somewhere faster than the rest, whilst breaking the law.

[Grum]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

*I* have to survive and avoid being hit by 2 tonne of steel/aluminium/plastic driven by *you*. Perhaps you can understand how motorcyclists are all about *me* in traffic... Its not about getting anywhere faster you idiot.

Then drive a car :

[flappist]

Originally Posted by puts99

I am not a big fan of our two-wheeled friends also.

I don't believe there is a need for them to lane split, and yes I have ridden a motorbike in various settings.

I have this arguement with bike nuts all the time, they always tell me that car drivers need to treat a bike as a car, give them room, etc. I'll treat them like a trucking car when they act like a trucking car; cars don't lane split.

I can almost understand lane spliting at lights, whilst the cars are stationary. Fine.

But to Flappist and the rest, how do you feel about lane-spliting in slow moving traffic? Nothing ****es me off more on the roads. Nothing.

I use the motorways a lot, in peak hour traffic - very low speeds on the motorway. Every 2 minutes a biker will lane split whilst the two cars in the legitmate lanes are doing around 20km/h. This is very, very dangerous. A car is allowed to be anywhere in a lane, what if one car is to the far right of his lane and another in to the far left of their lane (they're doing nothing wrong, this is common) and a lane splitter is approaching them 20km/h faster?

I have had a lane spliter scratch my rear quater and fold my mirror forwards whilst he was lane spliting in rush hour, I was doing around 20 km/h. He looked back, and bolted, there was nothing I could do as traffic was a slow moving grid lock. $700 worth of damage.

I feel sorry for the good bikers out there, the considerate ones that don't think they own the road and are the fastest things out - I think they're great. Unfortunately, they're in the minority.

So some guy on a bike scratched your car so you hate bikes. A dropkick in a BA XR backed into my F6 is a car park and did $5000 damage and he was a bloody kiwi too so does that mean I hate YOU?

The reason why almost all you the major whingers here hate bikes lane splitting is because when you are trapped in slow traffic, feeling angry and frustrated and a bike trundles past you and all the other slow vehicles and disappears off in the distance YOU ARE JUST BLOODY JEALOUS that you can't too.

You all rabbit on about lane splitting. What is the difference between that and pulling up the left side of a vehicle turning right or the right side of a vehicle turning left in a wide single lane. Nothing, but you all do it don't you?

Overtaking on double lines? Well actually if you do not cross the lines it is not illegal. Double lines mean DO NOT CROSS, not DO NOT OVERTAKE, read your road rules.
Have you ever seen a car or more often a 4WD cross double lines? I see it almost every day.

As I stated earlier we all have to get along. I ride, I drive, I dislike 4WDs but I put up with them, I dislike doof doofs but again I put up with them.

I don't own the road and neither do you.

No one is going to go away so there is nothing you can do about it except stupid things that will just end in tears.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by puts99

And there it is.

Don't rant on about safety, because lane spliting moving traffic is not about safety. It's about getting somewhere faster than the rest, whilst breaking the law.

I have no idea about NZ road laws but here in Australia (the au in aff.com.au does not stand for gold you know) it is NOT ILLEGAL.

[XR8putts]

Originally Posted by flappist

I have no idea about NZ road laws but here in Australia (the au in aff.com.au does not stand for gold you know) it is NOT ILLEGAL.

Fair call. Now tackle the first part of that sentence.

For the record it is illegal in NZ. But yes, this is AFF.

[LUXO_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

So some guy on a bike scratched your car so you hate bikes. A dropkick in a BA XR backed into my F6 is a car park and did $5000 damage and he was a bloody kiwi too so does that mean I hate YOU?

The reason why almost all you the major whingers here hate bikes lane splitting is because when you are trapped in slow traffic, feeling angry and frustrated and a bike trundles past you and all the other slow vehicles and disappears off in the distance YOU ARE JUST BLOODY JEALOUS that you can't too.

You all rabbit on about lane splitting. What is the difference between that and pulling up the left side of a vehicle turning right or the right side of a vehicle turning left in a wide single lane. Nothing, but you all do it don't you?

Overtaking on double lines? Well actually if you do not cross the lines it is not illegal. Double lines mean DO NOT CROSS, not DO NOT OVERTAKE, read your road rules.
Have you ever seen a car or more often a 4WD cross double lines? I see it almost every day.

As I stated earlier we all have to get along. I ride, I drive, I dislike 4WDs but I put up with them, I dislike doof doofs but again I put up with them.

I don't own the road and neither do you.

No one is going to go away so there is nothing you can do about it except stupid things that will just end in tears.

Great post!..... hit the nail on the head...

i dont ride......yet...... planning on doing something about it soon though.

[XR8putts]

So some guy on a bike scratched your car so you hate bikes. A dropkick in a BA XR backed into my F6 is a car park and did $5000 damage and he was a bloody kiwi too so does that mean I hate YOU?

It was an example of an experience I had, not my reason for disliking lanespliting moving traffic. I see you found out he was a kiwi, I'm guessing he stopped or you had the opportunity to catch him. Not the case with lanesplitters as I and many others have found out.

The reason why almost all you the major whingers here hate bikes lane splitting is because when you are trapped in slow traffic, feeling angry and frustrated and a bike trundles past you and all the other slow vehicles and disappears off in the distance YOU ARE JUST BLOODY JEALOUS that you can't too.

No, not really. Do you really believe that justifies it? You do well to completely avoid my question in regards to two cars (legally) close to one another in their respective lanes.

You all rabbit on about lane splitting. What is the difference between that and pulling up the left side of a vehicle turning right or the right side of a vehicle turning left in a wide single lane. Nothing, but you all do it don't you?

If you don't see the difference then I can't be bothered trying to explain it.

Overtaking on double lines? Well actually if you do not cross the lines it is not illegal. Double lines mean DO NOT CROSS, not DO NOT OVERTAKE, read your road rules.

I never mentioned anything on the topic.

I agree that we all need to get on with one another and the rest of it, but try and take a step back from your opinion. Try to forget that you're a motorcyclist: You are manouvering between two moving objects in very close proximity, you do not have controll over the two moving objects and they weight 2 tonne each. You have little protection in comparison. They space in which you intend to go faster than these objects is not a dedicated lane and the width of this lane can change in an instant without warning.

Can you not see where the car drivers are coming from? Thats the last I'll say on the topic, both parites will never agree and as I said before, I've had this argument numerous times with numeours people with the same result.

Pritesh

[freaky]

Originally Posted by flappist

The reason why almost all you the major whingers here hate bikes lane splitting is because when you are trapped in slow traffic, feeling angry and frustrated and a bike trundles past you and all the other slow vehicles and disappears off in the distance YOU ARE JUST BLOODY JEALOUS that you can't too.

actually far from it. people that know me know i am a very patient person.

i just hate when i am waiting at a set of lights in sydney cbd, i literally hold my breath in fear when these scooters and cyclists are wobbling slowly past my car, and i'm sitting there thinking about the scratches and finger prints they will leave on my car.

[paule11]

doesnt matter what it is car/bike /scooter depends on the person driving /riding. I dont ride and have no problem with motorbikes getting in front of the cars at the lights. If there riding is erratic and extreme then I have a problem I dont want to witness or see the aftermath of any accidents. Scooters can be a real pain sitting 10km under the speedlimit but I was behind a V8 fairlane doing 50km in an 80 Zone on the weekend thats more annoying than motorbike riders lane splitting

[dom_105]

I have a simple philosophy on this.

As long as they don't damage my car, or increase my chances of having an accident through their dangerous actions, than motorbike riders can do what they bloody want.

But they have to live with the consequences of their actions (as we all do), if it all turns to ****

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by dom_105

I have a simple philosophy on this.

As long as they don't damage my car, or increase my chances of having an accident through their dangerous actions, than motorbike riders can do what they bloody want.

But they have to live with the consequences of their actions (as we all do), if it all turns to ****

And that is exactly how motorcyclists feel. Except they have to put up with far more buffoon drivers than visa versa.

[Royal Blue]

Originally Posted by flappist

Overtaking on double lines? Well actually if you do not cross the lines it is not illegal. Double lines mean DO NOT CROSS, not DO NOT OVERTAKE, read your road rules.

it is illegal to occupy lanes with another moving vehicle. in most states it is illegal to lane split due to the previously mentions statement. 90% of rider accidents with cars can be avoided by riding in a defensive manner.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Royal Blue

it is illegal to occupy lanes with another moving vehicle. in most states it is illegal to lane split due to the previously mentions statement. 90% of rider accidents with cars can be avoided by riding in a defensive manner.

I must remember that next time I see two police motorcycles side by side in the same lane on the M3 or basicly almost anywhere else.

In your interpretation of the law how is it possible to overtake a vehicle on a single lane road?

[XA Coupsta]

Originally Posted by puts99

But to Flappist and the rest, how do you feel about lane-spliting in slow moving traffic? Nothing ****es me off more on the roads. Nothing.

So all in all - you are motivated to dislike lane splitting because it p*sses you off?

Put any other reason to it - lets be real - thats your real reason right there.

Hence riders have good reason for concern on our roads when many drivers are motivated by being 'p*ssed off'.

I can guarantee the rider who is splitting is 100% committed to it - doing everything they possibly can to make that manoevre without contact.

But alas that poor biker has no chance against a p*ssed off driver, sitting in traffic grumpy, wanting to make life difficult for someone else FOR NO GOOD REASON. Apart from it 'p*ssed them off'.

[SlikedTurb]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

*I* have to survive and avoid being hit by 2 tonne of steel/aluminium/plastic driven by *you*. Perhaps you can understand how motorcyclists are all about *me* in traffic... Its not about getting anywhere faster you idiot.

if you read the post that i quoted, you would realise that the person in question was talking about how he takes 40 mins to get from Cranbourne to the city which in peak hour traffic is atleast a 1:30-2:00 drive in a car. he does this because he "doesn't want to take 1:30-2:00 to get to the city. "
so clearly it IS about getting somewhere faster than me. YOU IDIOT!!!

[Grum]

Originally Posted by flappist

I must remember that next time I see two police motorcycles side by side in the same lane on the M3 or basicly almost anywhere else.

In your interpretation of the law how is it possible to overtake a vehicle on a single lane road?

Since when do the cops follow the rules??? How often do you see them driving whilst on a mobile???

To overtake on a single lane road you use the opposite lane when it is safe to do so and the road markings permit it.