Will Kyoto spell the end for aussie muscle?

[t2te50]

The economic costs involved in rattifying kyoto are astronomical. Labour have seen the cash cow that is our budget surplus and now are going to slaughter it :.

John Howard was the most sincere and dignified Prime minister this country has ever had, a straight shooter when compared to the rest. We have done a great injustice to this man, especialy my own generation.

Giving Labour power is like giving power to a couple of council road workers (no offence). We need educated individuals like lawyers, barristers, accountants leading this nation and not a pack of unionists that bleed the economy dry.

Large capacity sports cars are dead IMO. All the half strangled BOSS v8's out there confirm this.

[Falcon Coupe]

Global warming, the biggest threat to Mankind since the "Boogeyman".

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by cov115

thanks brother ill serv it up to them,carbon foot print my *** ,al gore is as smart as the stuff that gets jamed under your big toe nail, all hail al toe jam gore

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by feebs

M.. your starting to sound like Mel Gibson there mate!! :-)

spose they're hiding the UFOs away as well!

you tell me....

[RIPGMH]

Originally Posted by Piotr

The rest of the world gets alone fine with kyoto and Australia will too

The rest of the world isn't Australia, it should be based on population per km2. This country is riding a resources boom, we need to reduce emmissions but it should be done on our terms.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

The rest of the world isn't Australia, it should be based on population per km2. This country is riding a resources boom, we need to reduce emmissions but it should be done on our terms.

Which is why we didnt follow the rest like lemmings...
Australia is unique and has significant differences to the rest of the world, most of which puts us at a dissadvantage under Kyoto's blueprint..

[Piotr]

Originally Posted by t2te50

We need educated individuals like lawyers, barristers, accountants leading this nation and not a pack of unionists that bleed the economy dry.

If it was up to the liberals they would abolish all forms of education

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Bent8

The Govt relies on us not knowing the real truth...read this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../11/warm11.xml

CO2 emissions are not as bad as they make it out to be on your nightly news, all this carbon footprint talk is really a push for the "global warming tax" proposed by Mr Gore http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152801,00.html which is the ultimate goal of the Kyoto agreements...

Can you find a source that isnt owned by Murdoch?


Yeah it goes in cycles, thats does not mean we arent a factor. Remember, the ozone hole was nonsense for years too, yet well known in the 1950's. I remember when smoking didnt cause cancer, people have always got cancer, even non-smokers. Yeah, it does, its just not the sole cause, but then no-one said it was the sole cause but Big Tobacco sure as hell ran with it like thats what they were claiming.

Just because it goes in cycles, does not mean this isnt much worse due to our ineptitude.

Maybe this will help. A mechanic works on your car with reco'd engine. He stuffs something that kills your engine in 24,000kms. He says all engines wear. Is he wrong? They do wear, still doesnt mean he didnt stuff it.

[feebs]

This natural rise and fall if the ocean is something tho.. in the last 20000 years the sea has been in as far as the base of the darling scarp.. and as far out at rottnest island.. so yes.. natural rises and falls are occuring all the time.


Maybe a little sea level rise would be OK for me.. I could launch the boat from the end of my street here in the kelmscott hills.. a few others might be in trouble tho.

[XR_Strider_GuY]

Guys,

Each of us have our opinions about global warming whether its true or not, its a debate that each side will feel very strongly about. Me, well I drive a V8 so theres a clue where I stand in all this. But...

With the signing of the Kyoto Protocol, life will not be easier for us enthusiasts who love the simple large capacity engines thats relatively affordable for the masses. Australia and US are the only countries that produce these kind of simple but fun "barn door" engineering cars. Guess who are the ones that did not sign up until this week?

Europe has shown us we can have very high powered V8's thats green, but let me ask you can the majority of us here spend $150k+ for a rear drive V8 manual. I think not.

So where to from here, well its inevitable that we will pay extra tax for cars that are over 3000cc and possibly over a certain weight. Basically the sky is the limit in what taxes, charges they will put upon us car enthusiast but fact is be prepared to pay more and joe average will be looking to downsize.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by XR_Strider_GuY

Me well I drive a V8 so theres a clue where I stand about all this. But...

I dont know about Kyoto, but I do think we need to do something about pollutants and global warming. I just doubt cars are a major contributor, sure its not small in number when looking on the whole population, but far from being the worst or even a large percentage of the overall contributors. Its just easier to blame cars and place the onus on us.

I drive a 351 Clevo.

[MITCHAY]

Meh, I drive a 2lt turbo so I'm heaps 'green' :

[Green X]

yeah I took grate pride in puting the Green's at the bottom of my voting slip, I am not anti environment i am just realistic and if the Green's get there way the only way you get to see any of the environment is on a TV, cause they just what to close everything off.

The Government want to help the environment but they want the economy to keep growing, population to keep growing, make money evry body to have good gobs Ect Ect, well sorry ya can't have ya Cake and eat it too.

Don't even get me started on Carbon credits
The Hole Carbon credit's is just another way for somebody to make a truck load of money, and once agine as long as you can afford to buy the carbon credits you can suck as much electricity and burn as much Petroleum as you like, when people like Al Gore Ect start riding push bikes, driving a Pruis and Loose the big house and all the luxury's then I will believe they truly Give a ****

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

The rest of the world isn't Australia, it should be based on population per km2. This country is riding a resources boom, we need to reduce emmissions but it should be done on our terms.

And where do the majority of these resources go??

Overseas.

Then we get them back as manufactured goods.
We'll be right once the coal, etc runs out, the rest of the world will just bleed somewhere else dry, and we won't be able to afford anything anyway..........
The rich side of town will be fine though, they'll have all the money from the increased profits and the exhorbitant (spelling...) taxes we are and will be forced to pay just to live.

I'll add my vote to the scam side of the fence please.

Ed

[feebs]

AGREED , you wouldn't see Peter Garrett giving up his OWN block of land!

[Green X]

Originally Posted by XD 351 Ute

And where do the majority of these resources go??

Overseas.

Then we get them back as manufactured goods.
We'll be right once the coal, etc runs out, the rest of the world will just bleed somewhere else dry, and we won't be able to afford anything anyway..........
The rich side of town will be fine though, they'll have all the money from the increased profits and the exhorbitant (spelling...) taxes we are and will be forced to pay just to live.

I'll add my vote to the scam side of the fence please.

Ed

**** Oath mate we should be running it on owe terms, we'v got that much Gas, Oil and mineral's and what do we do just Flog it all off and why, for a quick profit, what about in 50 years when it's worth even more and we'v already dug most of it up.

[Fairlane]

Geez you guys bit hard didnt you. Kyoto will make zero difference to muscle cars- zero. Emissions in Australia is tied to the Euro 4,5 emissions targets usually with a couple of years lag. So we will still be behind the Euro's- Cars will need to get cleaner no doubt we cant stay as we are and we need to set an example for the developing world. Kyoto will make sod all difference in Australia really- electric companies might charge more and pretend to be building clean energy, but we are with 1% of meeting Kyoto anyway

And whilst everyone pays out emissions laws of the 70s which were a bit of kneejerk the power losses should be placed squarely at the car companies with their half arsed engineering practices- getting 200kw out of a big block through the 60s was just lazy and jaming some half arsed pollution controls in 72 on it was lazy too- They should have got smart and thought outside the square.

It took a major kick in the to get their act together- if they didnt get a kick in the we probably be driving cars with bloody carby's and points ignitions still. Change needs to be enforced, whilst we all love our Fords car companies can be lazy they go for the easy buck even if it screws themselves or the planet in the long run.

And if you lament change so much go out an by an XA, they arent going to be confiscating them at gunpoint under Kyoto.

[Piotr]

Originally Posted by XR_Strider_GuY

Europe has shown us we can have very high powered V8's thats green, but let me ask you can the majority of us here spend $150k+ for a rear drive V8 manual. I think not.

They cost 150k+ because of government taxes. In Europe they are very affordable cars.

It is relativly easy for big business to reduce its carbon production and decrease costs. It has been done many times by many different companies, we need to get real and pull our fingers out

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Green X

The Government want to help the environment .........

Nope ...... Only if its popular and worth some votes! This g'ment, within 10 minutes of being in power, start doing the 'What seems popular' decisions, rather than what is proper. They really couldnt give two hoots if its correct. It just looks good. Why do you think Garret is in there? Looks like the right thing to do. Governing for the vote isnt a good way to go! How many people really know what the Koyoto deal really means!



| [/url] |

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Can you find a source that isnt owned by Murdoch?


Yeah it goes in cycles, thats does not mean we arent a factor. Remember, the ozone hole was nonsense for years too, yet well known in the 1950's. I remember when smoking didnt cause cancer, people have always got cancer, even non-smokers. Yeah, it does, its just not the sole cause, but then no-one said it was the sole cause but Big Tobacco sure as hell ran with it like thats what they were claiming.

Just because it goes in cycles, does not mean this isnt much worse due to our ineptitude.

Maybe this will help. A mechanic works on your car with reco'd engine. He stuffs something that kills your engine in 24,000kms. He says all engines wear. Is he wrong? They do wear, still doesnt mean he didnt stuff it.

Yes, I have many many many sources for my info and they all come from non-propoganda news sources...I used those 2 examples to prove that even the Murdoch controlled media has this info available.

I see what you're getting at with your post but the goal here is not environmental conservation but rather taxing every person on the planet that owns a lawnmover...it's basically a money making exercise, the globalist are not concerned about the environment, they much prefer a bigger bank balance...that's my point.

Humans do have an impact but it's nowhere near as big as we're told...

[HLC]

Originally Posted by Barry_v

yes, and our economy will collapse and society will drop into anarchy.

and mel gibson will get the XB out.

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

let the good times roll.

AHAHAH Gold.

[Geez Louise]

:
I can't believe half the stuff I read on here and the other half makes me shake my head....

Educated people do not comment on such issues....too bad me is not edjumecated!!

Que Sara Sara...world moves on...is it really worth discussing? Unless you are willing to put your hand up and run for Government or really are out in the community making a difference...I mean a real difference...Go back to watching the world go by!! and stop complaining when you had the chance to make a difference...shouldda, wouldda, couldda! Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Ok...I am done!!

:

[Lightning Strike GT]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I also know that in some countries the cost of your rego increases as the capacity of your engine increases.

Welcome to Queensland buddy
The rego goes on the number of Cyls you have (1 to 3 cyls and steam, 4 cyl or 2 rotors then the 5 or 6 cyl or 3 rotors, and 7 or 8 cyls and then 9 - 12 cyls all in a different price bracket) and as from the 01/01/2008 you pay the stamp duty as to what you buy
The tree hugging hybrid will be at 2% the naughty 4cyl will be at 3% the uncaring 6 cyl will be at 4% and heaven forbid if you get a 8 that will cost you 6% extra so the price of a commodre SS or a Falcon XR8 will cost you an extra $400 in stamp duty
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home...stration_fees/
All for Go Anna's coffers

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The issue for Australia comes from how we produce electricity... coal is a big problem under Kyoto.
The reason we haven't agreed to it up until now is the problems it will cause for us..
Kyoto benefits places like china and India who have booming economy's and populations, but will penalise us... Electricity and fuel prices are tipped to rise as a result of compliance with Kyoto.

As I understand, and I could be wrong, China and the US are the 2 last main omitters that have not signed Kyoto.

25 years ago anyone who cared about the environment or chose not to use CFCs was a called a fanatic or radical. Look how far we have come? An avalanche starts with a snow flake. Change is hard to accept, thats why real change takes a long time.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Yes, I have many many many sources for my info and they all come from non-propoganda news sources...I used those 2 examples to prove that even the Murdoch controlled media has this info available.

I see what you're getting at with your post but the goal here is not environmental conservation but rather taxing every person on the planet that owns a lawnmover...it's basically a money making exercise, the globalist are not concerned about the environment, they much prefer a bigger bank balance...that's my point.

Humans do have an impact but it's nowhere near as big as we're told...

I wouldnt call Murdoch controlled not propaganda. I wouldnt mind some of this information you speak of, in link form. One thing is for sure, science is unable to agree on it, so claiming one is clearly right due to scientific evidence is a tad premature.

Im inclined to think that there is an issue, and we as in society, not simply cars, are certainly pumping out much more than should be there in the first place.

I mean, if were pumping out say Co2 at levels that resemble a natural time with similar high Co2 levels, then imagine the effects when nature naturally gives us its high amount of Co2 on top? What will be the effect of that?

I see no reason not to clean up, and pump out less where we can.

Try another analogy. You any idea how difficult it is to actually get pregnant? For some, really easy, for others, a few months of doing it daily, even worse for others. I still preferred to make sure my SO was on the pill. It was just common sense.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

2 things Mark Latham said that he got right was George W Bush is the most incompetent US President in history, and John Howard is an ar$e-licker.

Seriously, forget politics. affiliations, monetary policy etc.


This guy could have been the greatest Aussie PM ever. To hear him call the PM an ar5elicker was absolutely priceless. Certainly make for far more entertaining question time.

[dave289]

if here in australia we never started another car or machine,never lit another fire or match and we all stop farting tommorrow,it will make absolutely no change in the weather whatsoever.anybody who thinks otherwise needs there head read.global warming is a natuaral occurrance.im all for a cleaner environment and welcome better emmisions and such, mainly for the air we breathe but to think you can chance the climate in any effective way which can never be measured properly is behond belief.to many kids and greenies go on with so much shi* these days they dont seem to think about any real problems .what hope is there.to go on constanly about this crap is behond belief.i used to like the old days better when everybody did not know so much about so little.consentrate on some hungry kids or people in need of a home or shelter or maybe to donating food or clothing to many in need.there are real problems around that need addressing first not some overhyped crap.

i could go on and on and on but enough time has already been wasted with crap.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Yeah it goes in cycles, thats does not mean we arent a factor. Remember, the ozone hole was nonsense for years too, yet well known in the 1950's. I remember when smoking didnt cause cancer, people have always got cancer, even non-smokers. Yeah, it does, its just not the sole cause, but then no-one said it was the sole cause but Big Tobacco sure as hell ran with it like thats what they were claiming.

Just because it goes in cycles, does not mean this isnt much worse due to our ineptitude.

Maybe this will help. A mechanic works on your car with reco'd engine. He stuffs something that kills your engine in 24,000kms. He says all engines wear. Is he wrong? They do wear, still doesnt mean he didnt stuff it.

I agree with the meaning of this, complacency will ruin us.

Originally Posted by Barry_v

yes, and our economy will collapse and society will drop into anarchy.

and mel gibson will get the XB out.

[Tony xa]

No I hadn't realy given it much thought although it seems I maybe the only one that didn't think about the starting topic .What ever it was

[Jayden]

world population is too big. not saying there should be some breeding program. but just pointing out that it will double and double again. earth is screwed however you look at it.

[MRJUCY]

There is many good reasons why we should look after the environment, everyone wants clean air & water etc but this feeble theory that man controls the weather or even regarding carbon as a pollutant aren't valid reasons.