Feb v-facts

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have my fingers crossed the the "European" FG Falcon will go gangbusters when released.

In Britain Ford is a well respected brand often assosciated with "prestige", "quality" and "performance". Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Ford the best seller in Britain.

2006 saw Ford achieve 30 years in a row as top seller in Britain, that does not translate to being thought of as a prestige or quality brand

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Get your head out of the sand would ya? How is your analogy any different to that of an FG XT and an FG G6? The pure difference is that Toyota offer the best of the mechanical package at its lower level and don't suffer the lower buying level.

The Presara has a great amount of things in it, a few that even the FG G6E should have but it wont - satellite navigation and reverse camera anybody?

As for the second half of that comment, days are numbered? Toyota are the automotive powerhouse of the world, and will remain that way for some time to come. If they see they need sports cars, you'll see them - as displayed at MMS with the FT-HS there to gain response to a hybrid powered sports car.

Have you driven the Toyota Aurion??

For work I get to regularlly drive brand new examples (less than 10,000 kays) of many vehicles including the fleet hacks VE Omega, BF XT, Aurion ATX, BF E-Gas Wagon, VZ Wagon, Falcon Ute, Camry, Rodeo, Astra Diesel as well as the manager vehicles such as BF XR6 Turbo, Subaru Forester, Nissan Patrol, Aurion Presara, VE Calais.

If the FWD, V6 ,6 speed Auto is the best mechanical package on offer then I stand by my comments of the Aurion being a piece of sh.....

In case you haven't driven the Aurion. The thing is a torqueless slug at anything below 4000rpm and when you do venture beyong 4000rpm you are met with the steering going heavy and pulling to the side and try and push the thing into corners and you are met with tragic levels of understeer.

The Falcon is still the best engine/chassis combination even in base model form. I even enjoy driving the E-Gas wagons though they need some more grunt in all honesty.


A couple of bolt on electronic gizmos doesn't make a better vehicle. In the end a car is a motor and a gearbox attached to some wheels so if your paying more you should expect a better engine/drivetrain.

Don't believe the hype. The Aurion V6 is barely better than the Alloytech V6. God forbid I would take an Omega Commod over a Aurion Presara.

[JR.]

Originally Posted by sleekism

In Britain Ford is a well respected brand often assosciated with "prestige", "quality" and "performance". Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Ford the best seller in Britain.

It certainly hasn't hurt that Fiesta / Focus / Mondeo are all dynamically superior to most if not all their opposition over there, or that both Top Gear and Fifth Gear have sung the praises of Fords' small Euro product since they both came into exsistence.

They also have extented product lines with things like C-Max and S-Max MPV's, new Kuga, Focus wagon and other niche cars.

Like toyota at its import heydey, Ford should be bringing every one of these to Australia, as well as Mustang and even some of the new Lincolns from the USA for prestige buyers.

Growing the brand today is not something you're going to do with massive volume in a few categories; rather it's something to be achieved by small quantities in every niche known to man and then creating a few new niches of your own.

10 Mondeo style niche products selling 300-400 per month is still better than 1 product like Falcon selling only 2500 per month.

And no matter how good FG is (let's all hold our praise/derision) until we've actually driven the thing, i can't see Falcon ever regularly selling more than 5000 per month again after the initial new car rush wears off...

[XR Martin]

Toyota offer cars to fleets at much cheaper prices than Ford or Holden is willing to do.
They make less on their vehicles than anyone else in the market, and they spend the most on marketing. Toyota sell a heap to the rental market every month.
Thats the main reason for their domination.

[csv8]

KUGA is coming 2009 ? Didn't Gorman say that they need 500 Mondeo sales a month to justify bringing it in ? If that is correct, then marketting must drop the current sales campaign. It does nothing to sell the car but promote celebs !!!!AND dealers get there act together

[HenryV8]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Have you driven the Toyota Aurion??

For work I get to regularlly drive brand new examples (less than 10,000 kays) of many vehicles including the fleet hacks VE Omega, BF XT, Aurion ATX, BF E-Gas Wagon, VZ Wagon, Falcon Ute, Camry, Rodeo, Astra Diesel as well as the manager vehicles such as BF XR6 Turbo, Subaru Forester, Nissan Patrol, Aurion Presara, VE Calais.

If the FWD, V6 ,6 speed Auto is the best mechanical package on offer then I stand by my comments of the Aurion being a piece of sh.....

In case you haven't driven the Aurion. The thing is a torqueless slug at anything below 4000rpm and when you do venture beyong 4000rpm you are met with the steering going heavy and pulling to the side and try and push the thing into corners and you are met with tragic levels of understeer.

The Falcon is still the best engine/chassis combination even in base model form. I even enjoy driving the E-Gas wagons though they need some more grunt in all honesty.


A couple of bolt on electronic gizmos doesn't make a better vehicle. In the end a car is a motor and a gearbox attached to some wheels so if your paying more you should expect a better engine/drivetrain.

Don't believe the hype. The Aurion V6 is barely better than the Alloytech V6. God forbid I would take an Omega Commod over a Aurion Presara.

Crap, crap, and more crap.

The Aurion is not, as sleekism so eloquently puts it, "a piece of sh.." It's not my cup of tea, and I wouldn't buy one, but around town (where most of them are driven) they are pretty good. The build quality kills BA/BF in every respect.

Yes, it is a high revving engine. Again, I'm not of fan of this characteristic, but it's pretty typical of most modern petrol engines. Indeed, I suspect this is part of the reason for the recent exponential increase in the popularity of diesels. It will be interesting to see how the forthcoming Ford V6 compares.

The Falcon I6 is a stand-out in this regard, being one of the very few petrol-powered family sedan available with buckets of torque. It is also very good value for many, being a lot of car with a medium car's sticker price. Unfortunately, a great engine and competitive pricing does not make a it great car, particularly if the build quality is substandard and poorly thought out cost cutting is evident in trim quality and standard inclusions, or lack thereof.

As for an Aurion driver being "met with tragic levels of understeer" if he tries to "push the thing into corners", what can you say. It is true that Aurion doesn't have the poise of an XR6, but they are really not bad. I've rented a few Aurions, and driven sensibly they are very capable.

Contrary to the concluding paragraph of sleekisms mindless drivel, the Aurion V6 is incomparably better than the Alloytech V6. They are not even in the same universe. Sleekism would rather drive an Omega V6 than an Aurion. Says it all really.

[Eaturbo]

Ford wont fix rust on my BA 4 weeks out of 5 year warranty so i Just brought a Subaru Forester XT turbo wagon instead of a territory which also rust out. Very poor service from Ford

[Homer1]

Originally Posted by HenryV8

Crap, crap, and more crap.

The Aurion is not, as sleekism so eloquently puts it, "a piece of sh.." It's not my cup of tea, and I wouldn't buy one, but around town (where most of them are driven) they are pretty good. The build quality kills BA/BF in every respect.

Yes, it is a high revving engine. Again, I'm not of fan of this characteristic, but it's pretty typical of most modern petrol engines. Indeed, I suspect this is part of the reason for the recent exponential increase in the popularity of diesels. It will be interesting to see how the forthcoming Ford V6 compares.

The Falcon I6 is a stand-out in this regard, being one of the very few petrol-powered family sedan available with buckets of torque. It is also very good value for many, being a lot of car with a medium car's sticker price. Unfortunately, a great engine and competitive pricing does not make a it great car, particularly if the build quality is substandard and poorly thought out cost cutting is evident in trim quality and standard inclusions, or lack thereof.

As for an Aurion driver being "met with tragic levels of understeer" if he tries to "push the thing into corners", what can you say. It is true that Aurion doesn't have the poise of an XR6, but they are really not bad. I've rented a few Aurions, and driven sensibly they are very capable.

Contrary to the concluding paragraph of sleekisms mindless drivel, the Aurion V6 is incomparably better than the Alloytech V6. They are not even in the same universe. Sleekism would rather drive an Omega V6 than an Aurion. Says it all really.

I agree...great post I think a lot of people here just hate Toyota for the sake of it (tall poppy?). I'm not a fan of Toyota BTW, but I can see why they are successful and can only hope Ford learn from them

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Homer1

I agree...great post I think a lot of people here just hate Toyota for the sake of it (tall poppy?). I'm not a fan of Toyota BTW, but I can see why they are successful and can only hope Ford learn from them

double ditto, the Toy company have understood for many years what joe average needs, the car that gets to A-B, is reliable and fuel efficient and importantly a model to suit their needs.

Anyway back on topic, lets hope FG revive's some healthy spick sales and thanks RATT for the info.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Had someone tell me how good Japenese is and no one can match them. He didnt beleive me when I said his Corolla wasnt made there like the older ones.

And what Corolla would that be? All my information says their built in Japan.

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by Homer1

I agree...great post I think a lot of people here just hate Toyota for the sake of it (tall poppy?). I'm not a fan of Toyota BTW, but I can see why they are successful and can only hope Ford learn from them

Triple ditto.

Originally Posted by RATT

People don't value the made in Australia tag anymore. Infact some see it as a bad thing!

And this is pretty much what some of the above posts are getting at. People just don't want to buy cars that feel cheap and nasty and need 3, 4 or more visits back to the dealership for warranty work. They certainly don't want, or even expect, rust in a near-new car. In recent years this level of build quality has almost become the norm with Ford. It certainly is not the case with the Japanese manufacturers.

Ford can make the FG look as pretty as they like, but if they don't fix up these build quality issues the Falcon's slide to oblivion will continue.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

And what Corolla would that be? All my information says their built in Japan.

There was a few made in South Africa, and I'm pretty sure that in the 90's there was a few made here in Aus too.

[RATT]

Lets keep it on topic aye?

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

And what Corolla would that be? All my information says their built in Japan.

Corolla is built in:

Canada
Japan
South Africa
Turkey
China
Taiwan
India
Malaysia
Pakistan
Phillipines
Thailand
Vietnam
Brazil
Venezuala
U.S.A.

Given that we don't get the Euro Spec model: Ours doesn't get stability control and is packed with the ancient 4 speed auto as opposed to the Euro Spec CVT I wouldn't say we are getting the Cream of Corolla production.

Add to that that the Corolla still uses outdated suspension and the fact that the new model is slower than it's predecessor it's a wonder people buy Falcons at all (note sarcasm)

If any small car deserves to be number one it's the Mazda 3 and sales projections predict that the Mazda3 will indeed overtake the Corolla in Australia within the next few years and this is even more remarkable given the Mazda 3 is 100% retail sales while the Corolla is 60% fleet.

While I'm a Ford enthusiast I do admire Mazda. Unlike Toyota they can turn a healthy profit while still making enthusiast cars (RX8, MX5, Mazdaspeed 3) and even a lower spec 3 or 6 is still a fun car to drive and the Mazda 6 MPS shows what the TRD Aurion should have been.

Toyotas aren't built any better to any other Japanese brand (in fact Toyota in Japan has been rocked with huge corporate scandals involving quality coverups plus they have had exploding engine Aurion, RAV 4 failure, Tundra camshaft snappng) yet they are overpriced and lack even the slighest bit of performance of enjoyment in their products.

They are the corner cutting and cost cutting company.

I will take an Aussie built Falcon with bad fitting interior trim over a boring and slow Toyota which has an engine that might possibly self destruct.

[marcosambrose]

The thing is brand loyalness means jack these days.

Alot of people here and on ls1.com.au think everyone should drive fords or holdens because they love them to bits (literally).

You need to understand that when John Smith buys a Ford Mondeo, or Honda Accord Euro or Mazda 6, he isnt buying it because of the brand, he buys it because of the perception of the brand and the name that the car has..

Hence why Toyotas sell well in fleets and Mazdas are the most privately bought cars in Australia, everyone knows that overall Mazdas are genuinely great cars and Toyotas hardly break down, and when you do - the dealer is always there to help you out.

Thats the bottom line im afriad.

Me? If i was in the market for a medium hatch i wouldnt buy a Focus, i'd get a Golf, but im a Ford man, so that outlines that its the product not the bloody badge that forces people to buy cars.

Some here dont understand that.

My 2c

[Wretched]

Well said marcosambrose.
The Australian public has been spoilt buy a very good selection of cars both local and imported. The problem for the locals is for too many years delivered sub standard products, once competition arrived they were left with their pants around their ankles and bent over. Why should anyone buy because it is a local made? The $$ should be spent based on the value the customer sees.

[Dave_au]

Sleekism, our current Corollas, as in, what is sold here, are built in Japan.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Had someone tell me how good Japenese is and no one can match them.

Mate how times have changed. You would never of heard anyone say that thirty years ago!

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Mate how times have changed. You would never of heard anyone say that thirty years ago!

May be the case for Chinese cars in the future too.

In other markets, Ford has jumped Toyota last month to become No. 2 in the US market.

General Motors 22.9%
Ford Motor Co. 16.7%
Toyota 15.5%
Chrysler 12.8%
Honda 9.8%
Nissan 7.3%
Hyundai/Kia 4.5%
BMW 2.1%
Mazda 2.0%
VW 2.0%
Daimler 1.7%
Subaru 1.0%
Suzuki 0.7%
Mitsubishi 0.8%
other 0.2%

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by RPO83

May be the case for Chinese cars in the future too.

In other markets, Ford has jumped Toyota last month to become No. 2 in the US market.

General Motors 22.9%
Ford Motor Co. 16.7%
Toyota 15.5%
Chrysler 12.8%
Honda 9.8%
Nissan 7.3%
Hyundai/Kia 4.5%
BMW 2.1%
Mazda 2.0%
VW 2.0%
Daimler 1.7%
Subaru 1.0%
Suzuki 0.7%
Mitsubishi 0.8%
other 0.2%

What market is this??????????

Mitsubishi at 0.8%???

BMW outselling Mazda???

Chrysler with 12.8%???

What is this Ethiopia with 1000 cars sold a year?

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by sleekism

What market is this??????????

Mitsubishi at 0.8%???

BMW outselling Mazda???

Chrysler with 12.8%???

What is this Ethiopia with 1000 cars sold a year?

As he says, the US market.

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by sleekism

....Toyota which has an engine that might possibly self destruct.

Groooooaaannnnn.

sleekism, you've seriously got to start putting your brain in gear before you post. When you think you've typed what you want to say, sit back, re-read your draft, and ask yourself what people are going to think when they read it. Then fix it up, get rid of the really dumb stuff, and then, and only then, click the "Submit Reply" button.

[Cuey]

Upbeat Ford dealers are reporting that the new Mondeo diesel sedan and hatch are generating unprecedented interest, a situation not yet showing up in sales figures when supply is still an issue

From this carsales article...

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car...w/2902777.aspx

[irlewy86]

I was reading somewhere that Australia is fast becoming Mazda's biggest (may have been most valued i cant quite remember) market.


I wonder how different Ford sales are going to be in 6 months?

[Abacus]

^^^^^^

Mazda deserves to be successful. Damn fine cars, well built and nicely appointed, at a reasonable price. Ford Australia should take lessons from them. Then again, they've got the Mondeo and FG is looking good, so maybe they already have. We live in hope.

[Edit] Ford should learn from Mazda's marketing too. Pretty much everybody remembers the "Zoom Zoom" ads. How many people remember Ford's ads? I vaguely remember seeing something for the Mondeo, but nothing catches in the mind at all.

[RATT]

Originally Posted by Cuey

Upbeat Ford dealers are reporting that the new Mondeo diesel sedan and hatch are generating unprecedented interest, a situation not yet showing up in sales figures when supply is still an issue

From this carsales article...

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car...w/2902777.aspx

I can confirm this is true. Regular LX and Zetec are performing below par, but TDCi is very popular.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Abacus

Groooooaaannnnn.

sleekism, you've seriously got to start putting your brain in gear before you post. When you think you've typed what you want to say, sit back, re-read your draft, and ask yourself what people are going to think when they read it. Then fix it up, get rid of the really dumb stuff, and then, and only then, click the "Submit Reply" button.

Do I care what other people think??

I may have exaggerated things but what I'm trying to point out is that Toyota should be taken off this mantle that everybody places it on.

I find it very hard to believe that the car assembled at Altona are somehow magically thrown together better than the cars at Broadmeadows. And that the vehicles that Toyota assemble in Pakistan are somehow superior to the ones that Mazda build in Hiroshima.

And most importantly that the Hiluxes built in Thailand are somehow superior to the Couriers built right next door to the Toyota factory.

This argument is very sad. I drive all types of vehicles every day. And guess what? The Toyotas break just as much as the Holdens and Fords. In fact we have a Camry that isn't rain proof and a Hilux that is not only thirstier than a V8 (Hilux 2.7L Petrol 15L+ 100km) but has just had a clutch self destruct.

This Toyota quality argument is really sad. I had a Laser in highschool and a mate had a same year Corolla and another mate had a same year Camry.

Take a guess which one is still running.......The Australian assembled Ford Laser (Mazda 323)

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Abacus

^^^^^^

Mazda deserves to be successful. Damn fine cars, well built and nicely appointed, at a reasonable price. Ford Australia should take lessons from them. Then again, they've got the Mondeo and FG is looking good, so maybe they already have. We live in hope.

[Edit] Ford should learn from Mazda's marketing too. Pretty much everybody remembers the "Zoom Zoom" ads. How many people remember Ford's ads? I vaguely remember seeing something for the Mondeo, but nothing catches in the mind at all.

Yeah I agree with you on the Mondeo and FG point, if Ford Australia starts to run like Mazda combined they may just knock Toyota off the mantle.

Its also good to see the Ranger sales going strong, with the next model being designed here I wonder how much higher it can go?

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Yeah I agree with you on the Mondeo and FG point, if Ford Australia starts to run like Mazda combined they may just knock Toyota off the mantle.

Its also good to see the Ranger sales going strong, with the next model being designed here I wonder how much higher it can go?

Well the local Ford dealer in my town convinced me to buy a Mazda from another dealer and I'm not alone in being convinced. i'm sure thats not what you mean't though.

If Ford scraps its dealer network and tries again with customer focused franshise agreements and dealer principals it might happen, but it seems Ford is not interested in fixing the dealer network. The current dealer network is broken beyond repair and will always hold back any chance Ford has of growing in any real way, regardless of the quality of the cars.

Dan

[davocol]

Ratt, how popular do you think a turbo diesel would have been if bought out in the FG? Do you think it would be good if Ford were the first car manufacturer to crack this market?

Originally Posted by RATT

I can confirm this is true. Regular LX and Zetec are performing below par, but TDCi is very popular.