Go for 6% more power or leave it?

[Stav]

Originally Posted by stockoau

All the same you are asking peoples opinions on if you should or shouldn't do a mod you are not mentioning, it doesn't bother me that you don't want to spill the beans, I just can't see how someone could advise one way or the other without knowing what it is. Some people will just say do it, improve power, but without knowing what it is and the possible out comes any advise of the sort is worthless.

Nar the advice has been good.Its been a help...its all good...Thanks heaps....heheh
Stav

[Laminge]

Originally Posted by Stav

Even though it is over the exhaust ..on a cool night that pod will give more power than the standard intake or most peoples long steel intake pipes .

No it wont, not every time anyhows.

Stav Im somewhat amused by this thread but have refrained from posting anything till now.

I dont know about the others here, but if you going to ask us for opinions tell us what your looking at doing, otherwise all I can see this thread doing is playing a cat and mouse game with the members and I wont allow that.

If you want to be treated with respect, bother to show the same to the members here and stop with this 6% forecast.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Laminge

No it wont, not every time anyhows.

Stav Im somewhat amused by this thread but have refrained from posting anything till now.

I dont know about the others here, but if you going to ask us for opinions tell us what your looking at doing, otherwise all I can see this thread doing is playing a cat and mouse game with the members and I wont allow that.

If you want to be treated with respect, bother to show the same to the members here and stop with this 6% forecast.

Heehe ok..true.Didnt want to come across like that sorry all : :

[Stav]

I am trying to build a true cold air intake..not these airboxes or aibox from a fridge.Thinking of a bonnet scoop and freezing air.I know it is worth 5 to 7 % increase in power.

[blackers10]

so your wanting to port it.. grab a pile of them and just practice lots

as im pretty sure the one thing AU owners dont do is head work..

or go nuts with cold air induction..
i think a Liberty scoop would be good rather than the shaker or long pipeing

[sly]

Originally Posted by Stav

Thinking of a bonnet scoop and freezing air.I know it is worth 5 to 7 % increase in power.

Have you allowed for the power loss from driving a bigger aircon compressor? Hmmm belt-driven intake air cooler, I wonder if that can be turbine-driven by the exhaust gases LOL...

Seriously, it sounds like it could be worthwhile, just depends on how much it will cost you v's other ways of lifting power.

[Stav]

If done properly it should be worth 5 to 7 rwkws.Just need a cold air intake.I wont be proting anything though...The bbm is a great unit.

[trick_xd]

Stav
I don't normally post in threads BUT
I like reading your story's they always make me laugh.
But trying to chase cheap power is what every car guy in the world wants to do .
I think you ether have to Harden up and just do stuff... and don't give a crap what people on here say and try things your self if it works great , if not , stuff it and try something else.

P.S. you can get over 20 rwHP from less then 200$ if you can do stuff your self . ( yes I read you do all your own work)

[LG]

Not worth it.. For the effort and the practicallity of setting something up to constantly give cold air. Bonnet scoops look crap, unless it's a EL sequential on an EL.

Leave it as it is.

[LG]

For a proper intake, you can't get much better than a SS Inductions Scoop, with a little deflector in your grill. Then a Pod filter, linked up to a 3" Intake pipe (which you should only look at if your already making over 150rwkw).

You could experiment with throttle bodies, but for the price of them, you are just spending way more $$$ than the kw's are worth. And even then, you are mostly just doing it for throttle response, more so than power.

I think we've just come to a limit with the good ole OHC 6Cyl. Cam, exhaust & snorkal & edit. There's not much more you can do in terms of power. If you want more speed, get some lightweight rims, and pick up a fibreglass bonnet, and unbolt anything you don't need. And go for some lappies around the block and lose some weight, lol.

Your setup in a sedan, would be running close to a flat 14, which is the benchmark in reality.

Just my 2c.

[The Monty]

Go for it Stav, I think a scoop and intake straight into the throttle body would be and is great.
I was going to go the shaker, regardless of all the whingey cry babies on this forum, but ended up with the intake pipe I have now, so went with that instead.
The gains wont show up on a Dyno, so be prepared for all the idiots on here telling you it wont work, or no proof has been shown on a dyno, screw the dyno.
Rob, the guy with the XR6 with the shaker, swears by it, and it makes 100% sense.
If you drive, and air goes into an intake, it is going to be getting forced in at a greater speed, relative to the speed you are driving.
More air/fuel/spark = more power, you already have the smartest exhaust out there, a three inch, making the exhaust flow as little impeded as possible.
The only probs I can think of, are how to stop the air being forced in when off the throttle, and how to test if the car is leaning out at speed due to the air being forced in, as you wont be able to check it on the dyno, but seing as you tune yoursefl atm that wont matter, you should be able to log it on the laptop, and check it after each adjustment you make.

As for the vagueness of your threads, I love it, Keeps people interested, and keeps people on thier toes so they see what your doing next.
If people dont like that, they dont have to reply to your threads.

Josh

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Go for it Stav, I think a scoop and intake straight into the throttle body would be and is great.
I was going to go the shaker, regardless of all the whingey cry babies on this forum, but ended up with the intake pipe I have now, so went with that instead.
The gains wont show up on a Dyno, so be prepared for all the idiots on here telling you it wont work, or no proof has been shown on a dyno, screw the dyno.
Rob, the guy with the XR6 with the shaker, swears by it, and it makes 100% sense.
If you drive, and air goes into an intake, it is going to be getting forced in at a greater speed, relative to the speed you are driving.
More air/fuel/spark = more power, you already have the smartest exhaust out there, a three inch, making the exhaust flow as little impeded as possible.
The only probs I can think of, are how to stop the air being forced in when off the throttle, and how to test if the car is leaning out at speed due to the air being forced in, as you wont be able to check it on the dyno, but seing as you tune yoursefl atm that wont matter, you should be able to log it on the laptop, and check it after each adjustment you make.

As for the vagueness of your threads, I love it, Keeps people interested, and keeps people on thier toes so they see what your doing next.
If people dont like that, they dont have to reply to your threads.

Josh

With scoops, shakers or otherwise it isn't just about fourcing air in, but you are also getting air from the coolest area possible, outside of the engine bay, and with a minimal track to the throttle body you are also limiting issues with heat soak.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Go for it Stav, I think a scoop and intake straight into the throttle body would be and is great.
I was going to go the shaker, regardless of all the whingey cry babies on this forum, but ended up with the intake pipe I have now, so went with that instead.
The gains wont show up on a Dyno, so be prepared for all the idiots on here telling you it wont work, or no proof has been shown on a dyno, screw the dyno.
Rob, the guy with the XR6 with the shaker, swears by it, and it makes 100% sense.
If you drive, and air goes into an intake, it is going to be getting forced in at a greater speed, relative to the speed you are driving.
More air/fuel/spark = more power, you already have the smartest exhaust out there, a three inch, making the exhaust flow as little impeded as possible.
The only probs I can think of, are how to stop the air being forced in when off the throttle, and how to test if the car is leaning out at speed due to the air being forced in, as you wont be able to check it on the dyno, but seing as you tune yoursefl atm that wont matter, you should be able to log it on the laptop, and check it after each adjustment you make.

As for the vagueness of your threads, I love it, Keeps people interested, and keeps people on thier toes so they see what your doing next.
If people dont like that, they dont have to reply to your threads.

Josh

Thank you mate.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by trick_xd

Stav
I don't normally post in threads BUT
I like reading your story's they always make me laugh.
But trying to chase cheap power is what every car guy in the world wants to do .
I think you ether have to Harden up and just do stuff... and don't give a crap what people on here say and try things your self if it works great , if not , stuff it and try something else.

P.S. you can get over 20 rwHP from less then 200$ if you can do stuff your self . ( yes I read you do all your own work)

Trick..I know exactly what to do. :

[Mechan1k]

Hee hee .. this is funny ... my initial thoughts on this were ... "The silly bugger is going to take to his bonnet with a hole saw and stick his intake out of it" ... I can't believe I was thinking along the same lines ... LOL

I think he got ideas from seeing the thread where JC cut open Zhodak's (??) bonnet and putting the shaker in.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Stav

Even though it is over the exhaust ..on a cool night that pod will give more power than the standard intake or most peoples long steel intake pipes .

I bet you it won't.
Cold air is more important than volume of air.

Rick.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Stav

I am trying to build a true cold air intake..not these airboxes or aibox from a fridge.Thinking of a bonnet scoop and freezing air.I know it is worth 5 to 7 % increase in power.

Whilst it is always good to have a large supply of cold air, the current air box set up is pretty good. It only has the problem of a little heat soak on it's way from the snorkel to T/B. The snorkel is however in a good position to grab cold air.

A far better way to test this rather than to rush out with a grinder to the bonnet, is to measure T/B temps and snorkel temps and comapre the two. If their is a significant increase in temp at the T/B (which I doubt their will be) then a bonnet air intake has merit.

Personally I feel a better way is to simply wrap the piping from air box to T/B in some insulation wrap.

Rick.

[Mr Hardware]

how about you do it
then come back and complain about why your automatics and brake boosters keep dying

[mik]

brain stormin is good...........i think, what about also looking for a drag day cold air intake by that i maybe have a place in the air box where ice could be stored in the box with the air rushing over it even if it only lasted minutes for the drags would be cool pun intended, or another idea the fridge could be run on an invertor with a little bit of plumbing........

[mik]

sorry Stav not taking the just my weird attempt at humour..... sorry

[TOASTED]

so let me get this right, you want to know if you should put a cai on your car? why didnt you just ask this? why all the hush hush? and another thing quotePotential to screw up a car that obviously is running pretty well at the potential gain of 6%. I suppose that if I stuff it I can return it to unmodified...with alot of elbow grease.unquote potential to screw up the car? how is there any potential to screw up the car? and alot of elbow grease to return it to stock?lol can you not just remove the cai to return it to stock? i cannot blame laminge for his post in fact i think it was entirely necessary. mate if you have a question,ask it!

[The Monty]

Id like to see you sew the piece of bonnet he cuts out back on the car. Hes talking about a scoop setup, not just a simple CAI to behind the headlight.

As for heat soak, on a cold day (around 8degrees) I tested my 3 inch s/s set-up. It was around 18 degrees coming out of the airbox and up near thirty at the throttle body. Notice this is not air temp, but the temp of the intake the air was traveling through, so I dont know what bearing this has on it.

[mik]

have a look at this system http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...3Doff%26sa%3DG

[Laminge]

Originally Posted by Sox

Whilst it is always good to have a large supply of cold air, the current air box set up is pretty good. It only has the problem of a little heat soak on it's way from the snorkel to T/B. The snorkel is however in a good position to grab cold air.

A far better way to test this rather than to rush out with a grinder to the bonnet, is to measure T/B temps and snorkel temps and comapre the two. If their is a significant increase in temp at the T/B (which I doubt their will be) then a bonnet air intake has merit.

Personally I feel a better way is to simply wrap the piping from air box to T/B in some insulation wrap.

Rick.

I find myself agreeing with Rick all through this post, an unusual sensation to the say the least.

Stav, I decreased the intake air temps of my Territory system by upto 20degree with using a single layer of insulation from my mates at Clark Rubber thanks to the advice of Sourbastard, using double layer at certain points I got it down a further 5 degrees and reduced heat soak by at least 50%.

A couple of pulled down 12v car fridges and using the components around certain areas, with insulation would be an interesting starting point I dare say.

Im using a MSD plug in for my 2004 Territory.

[mik]

this huge filter looks pretty direct to the motor and the filter housing is made of composite all it needs is a hole/scoop in the bonnet in the appropriate place.
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...3Doff%26sa%3DN

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Sox

Whilst it is always good to have a large supply of cold air, the current air box set up is pretty good. It only has the problem of a little heat soak on it's way from the snorkel to T/B. The snorkel is however in a good position to grab cold air.

A far better way to test this rather than to rush out with a grinder to the bonnet, is to measure T/B temps and snorkel temps and comapre the two. If their is a significant increase in temp at the T/B (which I doubt their will be) then a bonnet air intake has merit.

Personally I feel a better way is to simply wrap the piping from air box to T/B in some insulation wrap.

Rick.

I don't have an air box at all Rick.My pod is sucking in hot air.This is my problem. On a hot day my intake runs up to 70 degrees celcius.I have a temperature gauge and sensor mounted right in it. At the track..it is sucking in underbonnet air.I still pulled a few 14.3's.This is my problem.If I can draw the same volume but colder air the wagon will go faster. I dont like the standard airbox.I have never been able to achieve great acceleration out of it personally. My hot intake pipe with pod feels alot more responsive than the factory setup even with the old 3 inch stormwater pipe mod that me and Jon Bays did years ago.

Laminge...did you wrap your piping with the rubber mate?

[Stav]

In any case thanks for the replies I can sort it..

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Stav

I don't have an air box at all Rick.My pod is sucking in hot air.This is my problem. On a hot day my intake runs up to 70 degrees celcius.I have a temperature gauge and sensor mounted right in it. At the track..it is sucking in underbonnet air.I still pulled a few 14.3's.This is my problem.If I can draw the same volume but colder air the wagon will go faster. I dont like the standard airbox.I have never been able to achieve great acceleration out of it personally. My hot intake pipe with pod feels alot more responsive than the factory setup even with the old 3 inch stormwater pipe mod that me and Jon Bays did years ago.

That's fine if you don't like the standard air box Stav, however reality is that with a few minor tweaks it is more than good enough for a very heavily modified 4L 6-pack and then some.
It is without a doubt that you are losing a lot of power (probably more than 6%) by having your pod in the engine bay without even the standard air box. Use a correctly modified standard type airbox setup and you will have absolutely no need for a bonnet fed intake. Don't forget I had the standard air box on my XH, which has the 400m ET, terminal speed, AND dyno figures to back it up. It ran 14.4 with no traction (crappy 2.3s 60' time), 97mph terminal, and made 175rwkw on 2 seperate dyno days.

Fit the standard airbox with the pod inside it and then we'll talk about some other small mods which can be done to make it flow enough for your wagon.

BTW, I didn't even have a 3" mandrel bent intake pipe from lid to T/B, I had a standard AU plastic elbow and flex piece from the T/B, with a 3" exhaust pipe from their to the air box.

Rick.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by craigosmoddedEF

so let me get this right, you want to know if you should put a cai on your car? why didnt you just ask this? why all the hush hush? and another thing quotePotential to screw up a car that obviously is running pretty well at the potential gain of 6%. I suppose that if I stuff it I can return it to unmodified...with alot of elbow grease.unquote potential to screw up the car? how is there any potential to screw up the car? and alot of elbow grease to return it to stock?lol can you not just remove the cai to return it to stock? i cannot blame laminge for his post in fact i think it was entirely necessary. mate if you have a question,ask it!

It was my decision to not mention the modification but people seem to think it was..which it wasnt. It was a question of going for 6% more power at the risk of going backwards. What is your opinion? That was the question. The actual mod was irrelevant for I was seeking your input to that particular question. I was not trying to tease. The question was asked but it seems that people just didnt read it carefully in context to what it was asking.

If I did not want to disclose the modification then why can't my decision be respected ? I am not trying to be disrespectful. Indeed the opposite.I am opening my thoughts and heart to you and this forum giving you the respect to hear what you have to say . The question was simple. However the interest of the question were not put first but the interest of discovering my mods were.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Sox

That's fine if you don't like the standard air box Stav, however reality is that with a few minor tweaks it is more than good enough for a very heavily modified 4L 6-pack and then some.
It is without a doubt that you are losing a lot of power (probably more than 6%) by having your pod in the engine bay without even the standard air box. Use a correctly modified standard type airbox setup and you will have absolutely no need for a bonnet fed intake. Don't forget I had the standard air box on my XH, which has the 400m ET, terminal speed, AND dyno figures to back it up. It ran 14.4 with no traction (crappy 2.3s 60' time), 97mph terminal, and made 175rwkw on 2 seperate dyno days.

Fit the standard airbox with the pod inside it and then we'll talk about some other small mods which can be done to make it flow enough for your wagon.

BTW, I didn't even have a 3" mandrel bent intake pipe from lid to T/B, I had a standard AU plastic elbow and flex piece from the T/B, with a 3" exhaust pipe from their to the air box.

Rick.

Your ute was awesome man...