What makes a "Muscle Car"?

[OzJavelin]

My rough rough definition of a MuscleCar is an American "intermediate" - eg:
* GM A-body: Chevelle, Tempest (GTO), etc
* Ford Fairlane(?), Torino, etc
* Mopar B-body: Satellite, Charger, etc
... with 6L+ V8 (383cid in the base RoadRunner was "too small") typically with a list of drag-racing-like options (eg. LSD, traction bars, etc), but no significant handling or stopping options ... supposedly one of the best "handling" Musclecars was the Buick GSX??!!

Most of these cars came from the era of about 1964 when the GTO first showed up to 1974 when the last of the big-blocks was available as regular order. There were many exemptions to the years and the definitions:
* Early sixties "full-sized" 409 BelAirs, 413/426 Max Wedge Mopars, 406/427 Galaxies, etc
* Shelby 427 Cobra's
* Ponycars on steroids: Boss429 Mustang, SCJ 428 Mustang, 426 Hemi Cuda/Challenger, COPO Camaros, etc ..
* '76 455 Pontiac TransAm .. one of the last "musclecars"

To me Australian MuscleCars kind of got associated with American MuscleCars after the fact. In hindsight we realised our smallblock powered GT/GTS/GTR/E38/E49s were like American musclecars but with one significant difference .. our cars were tuned for roadracing not drag racing.

[Escort_RPDriver]

IMO any of the old Aussie cars that raced at Bathurst automatically qualify a a muscle car don't have to be manual not every one drive them some of the GTHO's were auto not many but there were auto's but all the new Fpv's and Hsv's are modern muscle cars

VB onwards don't qualify and nether do XD onwards the Brock commodore's and the ESP falcon's were not tough unless you mod them i mean my escort is probably quicker and the old vb defiantly was

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Whoever they are, they know that only a BOSS 429 will do the job.......or is that a 428 CobraJet?...

Boss 429.

Daniel

[VZKOOP]

Some definitions......
Muscle - possessing muscular strength
Car - a motorized road vehicle designed to carry a small number of people

Insert your own version of the two above - who's to say you are wrong?

[yift]

different people have a different meaning of a muscle car. some hero cars are clasified as muscle cars. this is my interpretation of a muscle car with examples you may agree you may not agree, but if it gives me a stiffy when i hear or see it to me its a muscle car.
in no particular order.

50's 60's upto late 70's aussie and american ford, holden, chev, chrysler and their varients with a potent 6 or 8 under their bonnet. more so if it has a racing heritage. xd and xe v8's esp, interceptors dick johnson specials (turbo 6's)
vb - vl brockies, interceptors and even the plastic pig (walkingshaw).
vn ss and vn grpa (red coloured machine)
eb-au xr6 and ba - fg xr6 turbo
fte falcons and au2- fg xr8
anything fpv have brought out
vx-ve hsv
ve ss
chrysler srt8 300c and srt8 jeep (13 sec 1/4 troop carrier is amuscle car in my books)

i would also go as far as an australian delivered r32 skyline gtr to be considered as a muscle car aswell as an escort and sierra cosworth.
ford perana (sth african capri with a 302 windsor), gt500 corty, capri gt (v6?), mclaren f1, old school ferraries and the f40.

there are many more makes and models which i would personally classify as a muscle car but to me they have to have a certain sparkle to them to get my vote.
i personally think in the future a 200sx will be considered as one, even though from ones i have modified and seen modified i have a soft spot for them.

but at the end of the day what really does make a muscle car?

[McobraR]

* 8 cylinders and over (was going to say NA but the GT500 is without doubt a musclecar in my eyes)
* RWD
* Boxy shape without taking into consideration aerodynamics to show it doesnt need to be to go fast.
* Deep exhaust note

[davez104]

Originally Posted by yift

i would also go as far as an australian delivered r32 skyline gtr to be considered as a muscle car

i personally think in the future a 200sx will be considered as one, even though from ones i have modified and seen modified i have a soft spot for them.

Drugs are bad, MMMM'KAY :

[Wally]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/bv/gto.htm

[EviLkarL]

Better to explain what a muscle car isn't.

They don't come in 4 or 6 cylinders.
They weren't made after 1980 or there abouts.
Most of them had 2 doors only
Had strong features such as diff's gearboxes and/or dual carbies and twin exhausts.
Generally had cool names like GTHO, GTO, Mustang, Camaro and Superbird.

A muscle car is not turbo

[Bad Bird]

I personally think our "Muscle Cars" are more like the US "Pony Cars".

The name Muscle Car was given to them after the fact. Back in the day they were known as Super Cars.

To throw a curve ball here, Muscle Cars are generally not heavy. Especially stripper options. (Relatively) light car plus big V8 = fun.

[Wally]

Supercar from "Popular Mechanics":

History Of The 1964-74 Pontiac GTO
The complete saga of the Great One--the Pontiac GTO--from the beginning till now.

BY JOE OLDHAM
Published in the May 2002 issue.

The 1965 GTO
In 1965, Pontiac increased the rating of the standard 4-barrel engine to 335 hp but brought out a real goodie of an engine option. It was still 389 cubes, but a new cam that had 292° intake duration, 302° exhaust duration and more streamlined cast-iron exhaust headers added up to 360 big ones. And they meant it. Those weren't just paper ponies. In the May 1965 issue of Car Life magazine, Roger Huntington took some of his famed accelerometer readings in a 360-hp GTO and found that the car was being propelled by 345 actual horsepower at the clutch. And the true torque reading was 420 ft.-lb. compared to the factory rating of 424 ft.-lb. By the way, that issue was the first time the word "supercar" was used to describe the new breed of big-engine intermediates.

In addition to the straight engine stuff, there was also a ram air fresh-air package offered late in the model year. To cure the braking problem--GTOs still used the pitifully small 9.5-in. Tempest drum brakes--Pontiac offered finned aluminum drums with harder organic linings. For still more abusive driving, it also carried over the metallic lining option.

One of the best parts of the whole scene in 1965 was pricing. We thought they were high then, remember? In '65, the list price of a base GTO was $2556. That's right, $2556! A loaded GTO with the optional 360-hp engine, 4-speed transmission, power steering, power brakes, metallic brake linings, rally wheels, Safe-T-Track limited-slip differential, heavy-duty suspension, seat belts, custom steering wheel, rally gauges including tachometer, tinted glass, padded dash and AM radio listed at $3579, which means you could have probably bought the car for around $2800! Now that was a bargain. Those were the good old days.

They say that the '65 GTO was the fastest GTO ever. They may be right. The '65 body was still like the lean, taut original '64 body style. Fully loaded, the car weighed just over 3400 pounds. One thing was certain. The street guys were really into the car now, buying 75,352 of them in '65.

[KenLee]

Muscle cars are like barbarians.
Faster Japanese cars are like ninjas. Both kills, both have different way of killing.

I'd be a ninja anyday of the week.

[King Nothing]

To me, a muscle car needs to inspire fear into children. It has to audilbly hurt when started in an enclosed space like a garage, but a muscle car man will never show it. It has to make people stop and look at it. It must be raw, no refinement.

Has to be a roar, not a whine. No turbos, superchargers are fine though. Real muscle cars will be louder than a jap anyway. It must have a manual option available from factory, and have steel bumpers. It must be a sedan or a coupe. Minimal polution control. And must be built with speed as a massive priority over handling.

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

And must be built with speed as a massive priority over handling.

Although having tweaked versions that can be competitive in SCCA and TransAm races is always a bonus.

e.g. a Penske Camaro, Shelby GT350, Mark Donahue Javelin or Parnelli Jone's or Moffat's Mustangs (drool).

[Rev28K]

A question re the Boss 429?

Is it true that Ford had to homologate the hemi Boss 429 for Nascar racing and had to produce X models (500? 1000?).

Initially was the plan was to slot them in to another larger body style then the decision was made for KarKraft to squish them in to the Mustang Fastbacks.

What was the other body style?

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Rev28K

A question re the Boss 429?

Is it true that Ford had to homologate the hemi Boss 429 for Nascar racing and had to produce X models (500? 1000?).

Initially was the plan was to slot them in to another larger body style then the decision was made for KarKraft to squish them in to the Mustang Fastbacks.

What was the other body style?

Have a look here http://www.nzmustang.com/history/boss429.htm


The Boss 429 intakes will almost swallow a tennis Ball!!

[Bad Bird]

The Boss 429s were for Torinos.

[noosacuda]

I own a factory muscle car- A 1966 Chrysler 300! 18 & 1/2 feet long (5.65mtrs) and 2600Kgs. Why is it a Muscle car? Because it's factory fitted with the High Performance 440 TNT (magnum) engine option,the biggest available in a 1966 Mopar,and was sold as such, the 426 Hemi wasn't an option for a "full size",C body car. Btw in 1966 it ran 15.8 seconds for the 1/4 mile off the show room floor.

[ms700]

Must have steel or chrome bumer bars!

[chevypower]

I would say it's styling, the way it's built and engine characteristics (not necessarily a V8) Remember there was the old HEMI 265 inline six. It was a muscle car in the Charger. Dodge Viper 8L V10. Then Chevy had the Camaros, Corvettes, Chevelle 454s, 327s. But you can get 5.7L V8 in Cadillacs, Commodores etc but they are not muscle cars - so it's not ALL about the engine. so I would say it has to be big bodied, styled with masculinity and sports in mind, but not necessarily high tech.

[LTDHO]

Must have V8 and metal bumpers!

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by noosacuda

I own a factory muscle car- A 1966 Chrysler 300! 18 & 1/2 feet long (5.65mtrs) and 2600Kgs. Why is it a Muscle car? Because it's factory fitted with the High Performance 440 TNT (magnum) engine option,the biggest available in a 1966 Mopar,and was sold as such, the 426 Hemi wasn't an option for a "full size",C body car. Btw in 1966 it ran 15.8 seconds for the 1/4 mile off the show room floor.

Very nice car (one of my personal favourites), but musclecar is a bit of a stretch by '66 for a 300 (letter or non-letter series). By '66 Ma Mopar was cranking out non descript Hemi's in Coronets and the like as it's "stealth" musclecars ..

Caddy's had 500cid V8s, but no one would classify them as a musclecar?

[Bad Bird]

http://musclecarclub.com/musclecars/...finition.shtml

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

http://musclecarclub.com/musclecars/...finition.shtml

I like that list even if it nixes our E38, E48, XU-1 and lets the E55, SLR 5000, L34 and A9X, GT and HO's (maybe HDT's and V8 ESP) in on pure muscle car definition

[cob115]

Gday intresting question but a simple answer
Coupe being XA XB XC is the muscle car of Australia
V8 clevland ,of corse,top loader auto ,doesnt mater you roll up in a coupe you roll up with aussi muscle
clasic

[Bad Bird]

"Muscle Car" is such an American term anyway. Their cars were primarily* aimed at the drag strip, whilst ours were to win Bathurst.

Lets just call them whatever we want.

*Qualifier: There were some American ponies from that era dedicated towards the road course. Eg DZ 302 Camaro, Boss 302, AAR Cuda, Challenger T/A etc.

[mikestp]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Must have V8 and metal bumpers!

E49 chargers not a muscle car then?

[Bad Bird]

By the strictest definition nope. Definitely a pony car. Call it what you like though, the Muscle Car Police won't get you.... yet...

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

*Qualifier: There were some American ponies from that era dedicated towards the road course. Eg DZ 302 Camaro, Boss 302, AAR Cuda, Challenger T/A etc.

The factory versions of these were poorly designed for road course use. Most were "re-engineered" by external companies like Penske, Traco, etc to get anything like useful performance.

BTW: AMC Javelins won TransAm series in 1971 and 1972 ..... when all the other factory-backed teams left _2:

[EviLkarL]

Yep a Javlin has all the ingredience a muscle car requires. Maybe a lightweight but certainly muscle with great pedigree and proud racing history