GM reports net loss of $2.5 billion, more cuts and asks for help

[Spanrz]

Originally Posted by The Mighty Red

I think its wrong to bail these banks and companies out....we live in a society that demmands you are acountable for your actions.....there are plenty of small business out there that are hurting or going belly up , who is bailing them out?

You will find the main reason why the US Gov is bailing out these companies (like taking on that sub-prime crap), is to take the debt and resell it.
They aren't just buying them up to help out, just misplacing the debt for a year and reintroducing it when the market picks up, so they can return a profit on it.

[GTP290]

Originally Posted by atec77

Quite possibly , the problem is cars like the Hyundai I30 is so much better value than anything in the gm ford range ( I just bought one ofr a family member) at 23k auto on road with heaps of extras))
the time required to level with such a good but may not be available in which case ford/gm will die...

I disagree about the I30, after having driven a deisel model I30, my wife and I were very impressed with the pull of the engine especially in high gear, but in terms of interior space, looks and quality we decided to purchase a Ford Focus for $1990 driveaway, fuel economy is 7.1 litres per 100 and it felt like a more better built, better designed car all round, we are very happy we didnt get the I30. On another point Hyundai claimed something like 4 litres per 100km for the deisel model, but when tested by a journalist on TEN news, he couldnt get anywhere near that figure on the highway!

[SPK-250]

Originally Posted by GTP290

$1990 driveaway

Where was that to i'll buy 3 at that price!!!

[Ghiadude]

Buy a used BA Ghia and put it on gas - better looking, better equiped, cheaper parts, less on fuel, more power, better handling, more features, money in your pocket...i could go on

[robjh80]

GM stocks fell 23% yesterday!

General Motors chief executive Rick Wagoner said the US automaker would need state help before President-elect Barack Obama takes over the White House in January, telling industry publication Automotive News that time was of the essence.

Mr Wagoner said the entire US auto industry was suffering, with sales expected to be down by more than three million vehicles next year in the face of the global economic downturn.

Full Story here ....

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...02-952,00.html

[bob^]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Although it has brought on a massive war of words but maybe Ford are heading in the right direction with the staff cutbacks, etc? As they become more streamlined, and the costs come down, maybe, just maybe, we may turn the corner and become profitable once more. Toyota, Honda and Mazda have all shown that you do not have to make cars out of China to be profitable. All it takes is smart manufacturing and a small, lean workforce that is quite adept and multi-skilled. Ford can no longer afford to hire people to perform basic tasks and leave them there. You now have to have a brain on your shoulders and be able to learn many jobs and be able to be moved around. 200 trained, skilled and well paid employees are still better than 500 idiots working for minimum wage.

Of course. I have always said amongst the doom and gloomers that it's better for some to lose their jobs, and hopefully the company turns around. Than to keep everyone in a job, and close up shop a few years down the track.
Gobes I think I know who you are, don't suppose you're a press operator?

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Hally

In terms of GM & Ford, they have huge ongoing pension and health liabilites stretching back decades, that other more recent manufacturers in America do not have,

Why do you think that these companies had workers that did 30-40 year stints? It was because of the pension and health plans. If either GM or Ford (or both) collapse, the burden on the national welfare systems would be far greater than any short term bailout. There is no doubt both companies have made poor product choices over the years, but we need to look at the whole picture before thoughing stones.

Exactly I have read that because of these liabilities a Ford, GM, Chrysler car costs some $4000 more to build than an equivalent Japanese or European car in America. You Just have to look where Toyota etc. have built there factories.

The $4000 has to come from somewhere often in lower quality, less features and longer product cycles.

I do however say that GM,Chrysler and Ford have made some bad decisions. IMO instead of copying the Japs and trying to build FWD pussboxes they should have been more like Ford and Holden in Australia and built a RWD range of vehicles which would have let them get away with these liabilities easier.

[robjh80]

HOLDEN, an Australian icon for 60 years, could be snapped up by Chinese or Indian owners due to the financial crisis, says an industry analyst.

Full Story Here ...

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...45-952,00.html

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by robjh80

HOLDEN, an Australian icon for 60 years, could be snapped up by Chinese or Indian owners due to the financial crisis, says an industry analyst.

Full Story Here ...

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...45-952,00.html

It's already owned by foreigners so who cares if it's taken by another foreigner?

[EgoFG]

Does Anyone know the profit/loss as a % of revenue for Ford Vss GM, in Au, or in US ?

People are saying F has worse problems than gm, other say it the other way around.
Just wanna be able to compare some simple figures.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Does Anyone know the profit/loss as a % of revenue for Ford Vss GM, in Au, or in US ?

People are saying F has worse problems than gm, other say it the other way around.
Just wanna be able to compare some simple figures.

Just tried to find out . However because they (GMH and Ford) are not publicly listed companies their financial accounts are not available to the general public.

As to the health and other employee benefits, they are obligated to honour these and should have these provided for on the balance sheet...Having the cash to pay them however is another story

[The Mighty Red]

I thought Ford US posted a US$12billion loss last year.....they can't be travelling very well either.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

It's already owned by foreigners so who cares if it's taken by another foreigner?

Because the Indians and Chinese will be ruthless and simply want the badge for their top quality imports. I imagine the day will come when people will say "The old Holden Viva was such a better quality car"

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by The Mighty Red

I thought Ford US posted a US$12billion loss last year.....they can't be travelling very well either.

It is hard to compare straight loss figures without something to compare it to.

If I personally posted a loss of $2,000,000 that would be far more damaging to me that the damage to ford posting a 12 billion loss.

We need to compare it to revenue.

[robjh80]

"Straight from the horses mouth" ..... GM themselves

Some pretty scary figures here "should" the US car industry go into closure

Nearly 3,000,000 job losses in the first year alone

Personal income in the United States would drop by more than $150.7 billion in the first year

The cost to local, state, and federal governments could reach $156.4 billion over three years in lost taxes, and unemployment and health care assistance

http://gmfactsandfiction.com/

[greenfoam]

GM Ford and Chrysler could all be belly up anytime soon, interesting times are ahead to see where all the makes end up

[OZQUAD44]

All pretty scary gear right here in this thread.

Things are a changing

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

All pretty scary gear right here in this thread.

Things are a changing

Indeed so, and the worst of 'it' is months away yet...

The US is not my prime concern, and it all needs more remedy than printed bails, the door is beginning to knock.

NB - GM's cash reserves are good till early 2009 I read.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Because the Indians and Chinese will be ruthless and simply want the badge for their top quality imports. I imagine the day will come when people will say "The old Holden Viva was such a better quality car"

I doubt it. No one had a problem when Tata, being Indian, bought Jaguar.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Does Anyone know the profit/loss as a % of revenue for Ford Vss GM, in Au, or in US ?

People are saying F has worse problems than gm, other say it the other way around.
Just wanna be able to compare some simple figures.

I can tell you Ford are believed to have $33 billion in cash reserves, and they lost a few billion $ last quarter, but they were profitable the quarter before that.

GM is believed to have only half the cash reserves of Ford and they are losing something like $2 billion dollars a month, so they are in a much worse postion than Ford are. Ford are reasonably happy with their cash reserves as they think they have enough to wether the storm of the financial crises and get back into the black again.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I doubt it. No one had a problem when Tata, being Indian, bought Jaguar.

Jag LR was a premium and profitable organisation. I believe Ford had further agreements to do with component sharing etc. So no major changes for now. The credit crisis might prove different however.

Holden on the other hand offers a unique oppertunity for Asian manufacturer to market its wares through a large dealer network and beloved brand at a bargain price. They will also get their hands on some nice government cash.

[Sprint XR8]

Shanghai Automotive already assemble the Statesman in china from CKD kits and sell them there as the Buick Park Avenue.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Jag LR was a premium and profitable organisation.

Premium yes.

Profitable no. Not in it's time owned by Ford BTW.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Premium yes.

Profitable no. Not in it's time owned by Ford BTW.

I know, I think it posted a profit the last quarter Ford owned it but

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

I know, I think it posted a profit the last quarter Ford owned it but

Luckily for Ford, sales have since gone south and a LOT of employees are being layed off by the new owners.

[DTFRMONT]

Looks like one Holden dealer has gone down around Melbourne, a chance for someone to get a brand new Monaro...

http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/aucti...ype_id=2000070

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by DTFRMONT

Looks like one Holden dealer has gone down around Melbourne, a chance for someone to get a brand new Monaro...

http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/aucti...ype_id=2000070

Kyneton Holden dealer Mollisons is gone as well.

[DTFRMONT]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Kyneton Holden dealer Mollisons is gone as well.

That may be their stock then.

[robjh80]

Just reading in this mornings paper ....

"after the withdrawal of two major finance companies, GMACA and GE Money from the Australian auto industry 40% of the countries dealers have just 2 months to find alternative credit, clear their stock ...... or face going out of business"

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I can tell you Ford are believed to have $33 billion in cash reserves, and they lost a few billion $ last quarter, but they were profitable the quarter before that.

GM is believed to have only half the cash reserves of Ford and they are losing something like $2 billion dollars a month, so they are in a much worse postion than Ford are. Ford are reasonably happy with their cash reserves as they think they have enough to wether the storm of the financial crises and get back into the black again.

This is what I undrestood, Do you have any sources for the data ?