Euro 4 compliance is here?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by HSE2

It would seem that Ford has decided to get Euro 4 compliance into some products ahead of time.

Customers of the Territory in N/A form can expect to see Euro 4 engine certification on all new SY MK2 Territories from August production.

We're still building the old Territory engines now and have heard nothing about changing it till next year.

How accurate is your info?

[Bossxr8]

Seems to be what they did to the FG in June, a retune and a new cat.

Strange that the old Copperhead engine goes Euro 4 before the Orion does.

Makes a mockery of the plan to switch to a V6 because it was so expensive to make the I6 Euro 4 compliant when the about to be superseeded engine can so easily make Euro 4.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Seems to be what they did to the FG in June, a retune and a new cat.

Strange that the old Copperhead engine goes Euro 4 before the Orion does.

Makes a mockery of the plan to switch to a V6 because it was so expensive to make the I6 Euro 4 compliant when the about to be superseeded engine can so easily make Euro 4.

I guess it shows that if you let the engineers loose and have a passionate boss at the helm to control things, it can be amazing what Aussies can do.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by MAD

Maybe Ford are just holding on to stuff like this so they can constantly one-up the opposition.

Like that idea!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by phillyc

I guess it shows that if you let the engineers loose and have a passionate boss at the helm to control things, it can be amazing what Aussies can do.

All it shows was that Tom Gorman was a lying snake whose strings were being pulled by Detroit, but your right, FoA are capable of doing good things when you have a man with the right passion running the place, just like GP and now Marin have proved.

The reason they wanted the I6 gone was due to the fact they wanted to cut the number of different Ford/PAG 6 cylinder variants down from 9 to just 2, the V6 and the Volvo/LR 3.2 I6. But I guess now that LR is gone and Volvo isn't far off being sold that they will only have 2 6 cylinders soon, the V6 and I6.

[Road_Warrior]

Still makes me wonder what is in store for the I6 in 2011...E4 is just the start of it.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Still makes me wonder what is in store for the I6 in 2011...E4 is just the start of it.

Euro 5 is the next step. The main difficulty is minimising NOx emissions as usual. Believe it or not, Euro 5 is more difficult to meet with direct injection than with port injection. The presence of oxygen in the exhaust associated with lean-burn combustion means that catalytic converters cannot efficiently oxidise NOx, just like with a diesel engine.

Regards,
Dave

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Euro 5 is the next step. The main difficulty is minimising NOx emissions as usual. Believe it or not, Euro 5 is more difficult to meet with direct injection than with port injection. The presence of oxygen in the exhaust associated with lean-burn combustion means that catalytic converters cannot efficiently oxidise NOx, just like with a diesel engine.

Regards,
Dave

As has been said in many threads E5 is actually a small step from E4.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ford could do it with port injection and the cast iron block.

[Luke Plaizier]

To me, the step from SOHC to DOHC with VCT seems a MUCH bigger engineering task than the step from port injection to direct injection. 230Mil is a lot of money to spend on the engineering QA of fitting just 3 engines, so I reckon we'll either see Direct Injection on the I6 (although I expect they'll have to retain port-injection heads for the Liquid LPG variant), different body panels for the Falcon I4T (like Camry vs Aurion) OR Local assembly of the I4T engine.

But are we talking 3 x 16 engines here?

ie, the original non-E4 190kW I6, the Orion upgraded plastic-intake non-E4 195kW I6, and now a single E4 compliant I6?

Seems to me that the E4 barrier to putting a new engines in either existing or new models would be removed, and if I were running Ford, I would seek to converge the engine-line as soon as was possible.

I have it in my head that E5 didn't have much of an impact on Spark Ignition engines, but was focussed on improvements in Compression Ignition vehicles.


Lukeyson

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

I have it in my head that E5 didn't have much of an impact on Spark Ignition engines, but was focussed on improvements in Compression Ignition vehicles.

Nothing a simple re-map can't solve.

Problem is, the Euro emissions norms do not take fuel consumption (read: CO2 emissions) into consideration and therefore, with the increase in stringency comes an increase in fuel consumption (claimed to be 10% per level on average).

Regards,
Dave

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by vztrt

As has been said in many threads E5 is actually a small step from E4.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ford could do it with port injection and the cast iron block.

I think what PoweredByCNG is getting at is that once Direct Injection is used, it changes the requirements, which is true.

See my previous post:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Euro 5 will see NOx reduce by a further 12.5-25% (depending on the data you reference). All other values remain the same.... although there is a kicker, D.I petrol engines will attract a Particulate Matter requirement, 5mg/km. First time for this on a petrol engine, but that's because of the nature of DI engines, they are essentially operating 'like' diesels and certain emissions are affected differently from the port injected type.

Euro 5 & 6 are basically designed to get Diesel emissions down. Particulate matter and NOx. DI Petrol will get caught up in this though, but shouldn't be as hard to clean.

[PoweredByCNG]

Like I said, the SINGLE biggest problem with diesel and direct petrol injection is emissions of Nitrogen Oxides (NOx). Because spark ignition engines with direct injection run with a very lean air/fuel ratio, three-way catalytic converters (as used on indirect injection engines) on these engines would be inefficient at oxidising NOx due to the presence of oxygen in the exhaust.

While pre-cat NOx might be lower in these ultra-lean conditions due to lower combustion temperatures, post-cat NOx levels are higher.

Regards,
Dave

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by partsguy

Maybe the wagon will also meet EURO 4 spec and be saved too, same motor after all....

Problem is most wagons sold are E Gas, and E Gas will definately not pass Euro 4, hence the switch to LI for next year.

So Ford will still need to engineer it for the different engine if they want to continue with it, as well as the 5 speed auto cause the 4 speed is most likely finished too. Not too much effort required but R&D costs Vs sales will decide wether it happens or not.

Petrol engine could be made Euro 4 like the Territory as its practically the same, but fleets want LPG, not petrol, and LPG is the volume seller.