|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
10-01-2010, 05:25 PM | #31 | |||
Getting it done.....
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2,219
|
Quote:
My experience has been laregly positive, the people i have spoken to all viewed it with a degree of skepticism of both sides, but more so Holden....esp when you throw in that alot of the older generation are very skeptical of the smaller engine burning less idea (something Ford will have to deal with when they are on the other side of the fence with I4T...). I think Ford had got to a point (as a brand) where they were ignored by alot of the general marketplace...it was assumed they still built EB Futura's or something.... The 'Ford of course' ads combined with the Drive bathurst test debacle for holden has really put Ford back into the picture in terms of consideration by alot of new car buyers. This can only help ford as the Ford Aus lineup is very competitive these days. So on balance i still support the Ford's new marketing position, even if it does border on being a bit nasty here and there. After all, Ford is probably last to the 'cheap shot' style marketing you refer to. Toyota is one of the biggest users of this and its sales look quite good to me.... Getting back on topic, i'd like to see a city based back to back test between the 4.0 I6, 3.0 and 3.6 SIDI engines (and in future, the 2.0 DI I4T). Get the drivers to swap around and all cars follow each other over a 40k urban route nose to tail basically. Perhaps some FG owners can shed some light on what the FG will do in a fully urban cycle?? I think such a test would be quite revealing....and i'd be willing to bet the 3.0 would struggle the most versus not only ADR figures but overall....
__________________
Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
|||
10-01-2010, 05:28 PM | #32 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
|
the SIDI 3.0 seems just like a 3.2 CFI...
__________________
|
||
10-01-2010, 05:34 PM | #33 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
|
Quote:
That article and Ford's reception to it, has meant that there are plenty of fleet managers who just aren't sure. It has given some, serious doubt. Put it this way, my work has 5000 odd employees and about 2000 vehicles. The 3.0L Commodore isn't an option. But an Aurion now is. When you have a dominant player who is offering inferior products / drivetrains, then it was absolutely the right move to steal their new engine thunder. I could only dread their VE sales had this terrible hoax not been effectively underscored. The Alloytech/SIDI is a sub-optimal design at best. It is as simple as that.
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
|||
10-01-2010, 05:41 PM | #34 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
|
Quote:
If you're going to "talk the talk" you better be able to "walk the walk"... Maybe next time they'll work a bit harder to bring us a product that does what it claims... maybe next time they better let the engineering dept develop the acronyms rather than the marketing dept, in other words keep them honest.
__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. |
|||
10-01-2010, 06:06 PM | #35 | ||
sucksqueezebangblow
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 748
|
i see that the new direct injection commodores even have a fancy "SIDI" badge on them too. woooooo!!! wow must be some new technology shiyet.
reminds me of the VR commie having an "ABS" sticker. they must be so proud to be advertising being finally able to use technology which has been around for ages. yes, i know my BF doesn't have direct injection but at least the fords aren't stupid enough to spout DOHC, VCT or IRS badges.
__________________
previous:-> 74 KE20 4AGTE, 04 RZN149R, 01 AE112R, 01 KR42R, 84 E30 318i, 67 MINI DELUX, 06 BF XR6T, 08 V50 T5 AWD , MY13 ISUZU D-MAX 4X4 current:-> 16 SS Sportwagon, 19 Everest BiTurbo 4WD |
||
10-01-2010, 06:12 PM | #36 | ||
The Vengeful One
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tazzy
Posts: 12,765
|
My brothers old R31 Skyline gets better fuel economy from its 3ltr strait 6, and its 18 years old lol! , wonder how long there will be a 3ltr commy around lol!
__________________
|
||
10-01-2010, 06:19 PM | #37 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 838
|
The SIDI motor is only a 3.0 with 290Nm of torque pulling an 1800 kg car. There's just not enough pulling power to move it without using a greater proportion of the motors power to move it.
If the commodore was around 1500 kg then 290Nm would pull it well. |
||
10-01-2010, 06:30 PM | #38 | |||
Fordaholic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 884
|
Quote:
|
|||
10-01-2010, 06:36 PM | #39 | |||
Just slidin'
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 7,791
|
Quote:
AU had VCT, and OHC badges on them.
__________________
MD Mondeo - For the family
NP Pajero - For the adventure |
|||
10-01-2010, 06:47 PM | #40 | |||
XP Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,098
|
Quote:
We could to and fro about straw polls and come out with substantiation on both opinions, but in one thing you are correct:- I do see it as a cheap shot, just as I would if GM did it to Ford in a reverse situation. In this instance I am basing it on primarily on gut feel, no appreciable spike in Ford Falcon sales and yarns around the bbq, but I am very much aware how marketing campaigns can backfire when using polarisation as the tool, especially with a limited and diminishing customer base. Garnering data from members to support or repudiate the comparitive efficiencies will go nowhere. No matter the intent, the input will be skewed. There will be rambling posts dissecting, reconfiguring and repackaging it into something more palatable for the true believers. I am quite happy to accept there is something wrong with the ADR figures. It doesn't affect me, because I have always been critical of the Alloytec and I don't buy cars for economy, preferring a phallic V8 without all the boyracer stuff. |
|||
10-01-2010, 06:56 PM | #41 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
|||||
10-01-2010, 07:04 PM | #42 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
|
Quote:
Bit of background to the story too. The original intention by Toby Hagen (self confessed - even in the article - GM / Red fan) - was to demonstrate the effectiveness of the SIDI 3.0L. The 4.0L FG not only quickly established itself as the better car, but to their utter astonishment, was right on it's ADR. The VE was 17% worse. Quote:
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
||||
10-01-2010, 09:08 PM | #43 | |||
Getting it done.....
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2,219
|
Quote:
This is the issue. Sure the Ve would burn less than the EF, but how much of that is the general advancement of the engine tech over time, aero, gearbox ratios and tuning (6sp auto versus 4sp auto), low rolling resistance tyre etc. etc. Ford will have a 350nm I4T with a 6sp dsg or 6sp auto. That is in a 1700tonne car topps. Holden is trying to haul the same weight with 40nm less and it is not turbo (hence no low down torque...).
__________________
Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
|||
11-01-2010, 12:05 AM | #44 | |||
Broken eBay Starter Motor
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 546
|
Quote:
Haha, 500 odd kilograms might have something to do with that. Last edited by Kamshaaft; 11-01-2010 at 12:20 AM. |
|||
11-01-2010, 07:23 AM | #45 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 103
|
My trusty old 304 VQ Statesman gets me from Sydney to Surfers 1 tank 80L,i get 8.3/100 cruising on the highway.
|
||
11-01-2010, 08:38 AM | #46 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,974
|
Quote:
__________________
1966 Ford Mustang coupe. 347 stroker, PA reverse manual C4, TCE high stall converter, B&M Pro Ratchet, Edelbrock alum heads, Edelbrock intake manifold, MSD ignition, Holley Street HP 750 CFM carb, gilmer drive, wrapped Hooker Super Comp Headers, dual 3" straight through exhaust, Bilstein shocks, custom springs, full poly suspension, American Racing rims, Open Tracker roller spring saddles and shelby drop. Still to go - Holley Sniper EFI with integrated fuel cell. |
|||
11-01-2010, 09:39 AM | #47 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,633
|
Quote:
|
|||
11-01-2010, 09:54 AM | #48 | ||
Just slidin'
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 7,791
|
Its not the plastics that have increased the weight of the car, how many 1969 Dodge Pheonix's do you know with a 5 star crash rating, ABS, power windows, climate control, 6 airbags, 19 inch rims, comfortable seats, central locking....see where Im heading with this? Old Mustangs used to weigh 1140kg as well, Id rather be driving a falcon or commode when I crash instead of something old.
__________________
MD Mondeo - For the family
NP Pajero - For the adventure |
||
11-01-2010, 09:56 AM | #49 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ipswich QLD
Posts: 4,697
|
yes i vote for a CLEAR CUT STRAIGHT UP ADD showing the falcon v the sidi commi. Why not..is there something wrong with the sidi commi holden...bwahaha. ( the only good thing holden has in aus is the engines they import made for a CORVETE for crying out loud.....piggback anyone)
|
||
11-01-2010, 10:31 AM | #50 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,633
|
Quote:
|
|||
11-01-2010, 10:31 AM | #51 | ||
Steve
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sth East Qld
Posts: 1,284
|
I do not know why Holden went down this track . I had a VZ 3.6 Wagon as a company car and it mixed driving was getting 9.0 l/100 . I actually thought it was not a bad car .This SIDI seems to be more marketing than actually real world benefits.
And Ford should not go ahead with a turbo four ,there is no way known that current falcon drivers would even entertain the idea of buying one....
__________________
Currently no Fords . 2005 Statesman International 5.7, Mazda 2 and a Hilux. Former Fords: 2010 Ford Escape 2007 BF11 GT, TE50 Series 1 ,AU V8 One Tonner ,EL Falcon Wagon, ED Fairmont , EB Falcon Series 1. Mk 2 Cortina Company Fords : 3 BA Falcons , EB 11 Falcon Wagon , Ford F350 351 V8. |
||
11-01-2010, 11:47 AM | #52 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kalgoorlie
Posts: 60
|
Quote:
|
|||
11-01-2010, 01:10 PM | #53 | |||
Lurker
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Geelong
Posts: 299
|
Quote:
Just a side comment, I've been driving a BF3 wagon 4 spd auto, which is only a couple of months old, on a commute from Geelong to Campbelfield, getting an average of 8.7l/100km. It is predominately highway, but the western ring road section is usually stop start at that time. I'm very impressed with it actually! |
|||
11-01-2010, 01:49 PM | #54 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 805
|
Going back to the article, they stated the commodore had a ZF gearbox.....since when???????
__________________
FGF6 Vic Number Plates for sale! PM if interested. FGX XR8, Auto, Black. WG Fiesta ST Manual, Black. |
||
11-01-2010, 02:02 PM | #55 | ||
FGX XR8
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 702
|
I think you might have misread the article.
It actually says "The automatic’s shifts won’t ever compete with ZF’s brilliant six-speed, though." |
||
11-01-2010, 02:33 PM | #56 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 805
|
Ah thats what happens when ya reading whilst on the phone talking about another topic....lol
__________________
FGF6 Vic Number Plates for sale! PM if interested. FGX XR8, Auto, Black. WG Fiesta ST Manual, Black. |
||
11-01-2010, 07:07 PM | #57 | ||
Broken eBay Starter Motor
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 546
|
reserved.
|
||
11-01-2010, 07:13 PM | #58 | ||
FGX XR8
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 702
|
You may just find that infact they're not ZF transmissions and infact GM6L50 automatic transmissions. Which is produced by the GM Powertrain plant in Strasbourg, France.
Last edited by g220ba; 11-01-2010 at 07:25 PM. |
||
11-01-2010, 07:18 PM | #59 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 354
|
Quote:
|
|||
11-01-2010, 07:22 PM | #60 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
|
Quote:
__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. |
|||