Four speed to be gone in months, and 5 speed soon after

[XR6_190]

Good news this, Makes the model lineup a lot less confusing for the average punter.

As for the 7 and 8 speed transmissions, pretty pointless in Australia considering you will never legally get the car into those top ratios, they are designed for Autobahn cruising, so that when you are sitting on 250, you aren't working the car any harder than you should want to. Considering the top speed limit is 110 (130 in NT) That just isn't going to happen.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I've heard about 3k for a ZF, not much more than a BTR at approx 2k.

Double that, and then you're close.

[UNR8D]

What would you need 8 gears for anyways? Unless you wanted to do like 300km/h

300km/h is more fun than 110... I like the idea of that ;)

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by tommyd

Careful. I know Stanford's dad was a highly respected engineer at Ford Australia and, as such, James is quite accurate in his reporting.

Well, I have emailed Go-Auto a couple of times in the last few months to correct stuff. They have replied and changed them.

Originally Posted by tommyd

The facts you've claimed are false, are in fact true.

Well, point me in the right direction! The only thing I'm not confident on is the 'end of the wagon'. Not entirely sure that it will go. But if it is, then it won't be about losing the 4spd auto. It's most likely the whole 6spd & FG engine installation.

Personally, it is probably a good idea to keep it as it was paid off years ago. But, if line capacity is too tight. Then again, if they can maintain / increase total numbers by selling higher priced models, then this may wring out / reap more profit. Keeping it, also makes it more likely that the overall Falcon sales will grow this year.

[partsguy]

Rumours floating around this morning are that there will be no e-gas available between May & November as Ford do not have stock piles of 4 speed autos to carry through to LI-gas launch. Also that wagon is definately dead.
I normally treat these rumours with the "we'll see" touch, but not from this source...

[GS608]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

I disagree bluehoon. I have owned two falcons now because they use falcons as taxis.

Yes but they are both used Falcons correct? The majority won't buy a NEW Falcon because once upon a time they got into a rattly stinking AU or BA Taxi and think all Fords are like that. The sooner they get rid of the taxi image the better.

[marcosambrose]

Originally Posted by partsguy

Rumours floating around this morning are that there will be no e-gas available between May & November as Ford do not have stock piles of 4 speed autos to carry through to LI-gas launch. Also that wagon is definately dead.
I normally treat these rumours with the "we'll see" touch, but not from this source...

There you have it ladies and gentleman! better grab a AU Mark 6 wagon with e-gas before they all run out! hehe

[vztrt]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/54005/fo...plier-minimal/

Ford phasing out four-speed and five-speed automatic transmissions, impact on local supplier minimal

January 20, 2010 by Tim Beissmann


Ford Australia is running out the four-speed and five-speed automatic transmissions fitted to its locally made Falcon and Territory and replacing them with an internally sourced six-speed unit.

The new six-speed – different to the German-manufactured ZF currently used by Ford – is expected to appear in the diesel Territory and four-cylinder EcoBoost Falcon from next year.

The outgoing four-speed automatic is manufactured locally at the Drive Systems International (DSI) plant in Albury, which has been supplying gearboxes to Ford Australia for almost 40 years.

DSI Albury plant manager, Howard Morey, said the revelation has come as no surprise.

“[Ford] were already running out that four-speed auto which – in significant volume – was going to pan out in about July this year.

“It was always going to happen, we’ve known that was going to happen for the last three years,” he said.

The four-speed automatic is currently used in the rear-wheel drive Territory, LPG Falcon and the Falcon wagon.

Ford’s decision to drop the four-speed from its passenger cars seemingly puts the future of the Falcon wagon in further doubt, although the possibility remains that it too could adopt the new six-speed automatic.

Unlike the sedan, the wagon did not receive the complete FG update in 2008 and has since been available in BF III guise.

Ford claims it is selling steadily at around 400 per month, but Ford Australia President and CEO, Marin Burela, told CarAdvice in November the success of the Mondeo wagon would heavily influence a decision on the Falcon wagon.

“With the two of them sitting side by side, we’re just letting the market tell us what they want and once we’ve received that … we will know then the direction we need to move in.”

But contrary to recent reports Mr Morey believes the four-speed will live on into next year, admitting that as far as he is aware DSI still plans to supply Ford with transmissions for its ute into 2011.

“We were still going to build the four-speed for them in low volume for the commercial range right out until next year.”

DSI produces around 100 four-speed units per day for Ford and Mr Morey said the low volume production would reduce its supply by about three-quarters to between 500 and 600 per month.

Despite this, he said the impact of reduced volume would have minimal impact on DSI and its workers.

“We’ve already got other contracts and they just so happen to start at the same time as Ford are finishing off.

“We’ve been in quite a bit of trouble last year but our other markets are starting to ramp at the moment. It’s really hard to tell exactly what’s going to happen but what we see right now is that it’s probably not going to have a huge impact,” he said.

He said DSI is starting work on a new Ssangyong platform mid-year and beginning on other platforms with owner Geely later in 2010, and hoped for a smooth transition of volume.

“We don’t even know exactly what the run-out for Ford is. They’ve told us July, we know a number, but you never know exactly until you get about three months out and then you start to hone it down,” he said.

July was to be the date that Ford’s new Euro V-compliant, liquid injection LPG six-cylinder engine arrived which was to be mated to the new six-speed automatic. Mr Morey said recent reports that it would not arrive until around October surprised him.

“We were figuring mid-year but they [Ford] may not have told us yet that the gas platform has been delayed or something like that.

“Sometimes these things happen, but there has been no correspondence apart from what we’re aware of and that’s mid-year. But notwithstanding, anything can change.”

The five-speed automatic, sourced from France, is currently used in lower specification models of the Falcon and Falcon ute. Its life is dependent on supply, but is expected to be short-lived, and could end with the arrival of the four-cylinder engine or earlier.

When sales of the four-speed and five-speed do end, it will mean that Ford’s locally produced vehicles will be available only with six-speed transmissions. That will lead to improved fuel economy and also a likely price rise.

[RIPGMH2009]

doesnt say much for the 5 speed in one day out the next

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Paxton

It isn't very often that Ford goes backwards in terms of specification or technology.

I wouldn't be so sure. With Ford America calling the shots and wanting to axe the falcon, they will do what they want. They will look to support local American companies and source a supplier from the US. ZF is a quality box. But if they drop it in favour of American built 6 speeds, then you know it will an inferior product compared to what the ZF is. The global platform means lower costs. I doubt they will keep using something they can get cheaper. Won't matter to them it will be poor quality.

[Road_Warrior]

Actually I think the 6R is not that dissimilar to the ZF...so it mightn't be a much of a backward step at all...

[mickyyyy]

i would of thought they would of dropped the 4 speed BTR and use a 5 speed and use a ZF in higher end models or an option.

Id rather a good quality 5 speed as standard gear than a decent 6 speed any day of the week plus should be cheaper rebuilding costs.

Taxi drivers are going to spew as the 4 speed BTR is a main reaon they stick with ford as they go for ever and cheap to service and rebuild.

[g220ba]

Originally Posted by mickyyyy

Taxi drivers are going to spew as the 4 speed BTR is a main reaon they stick with ford as they go for ever and cheap to service and rebuild.

I'm pretty sure Ford couldn't care less about taxi drivers. There are more important buyers to worry about than the taxi companies. It's an image they no longer want, as proven by the axing of the taxi pack back in the BA days.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 84ltd

I'm pretty sure Ford couldn't care less about taxi drivers. There are more important buyers to worry about than the taxi companies. It's an image they no longer want, as proven by the axing of the taxi pack back in the BA days.

Pretty much. Ford would be happy if they went and bought Toyotas....funny how Toyota offered a Taxi pack yet Taxi's still went back to the Falcon.

[Bobman]

Still a whole heap of Avalons around Melbourne though and a couple Prius'.

They'll get used to it. After all, even though they hated when the EA2 had a 4 speed, some taxi operators still used 3 speeds in EA-ELs.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Still a whole heap of Avalons around Melbourne though and a couple Prius'.

They'll get used to it. After all, even though they hated when the EA2 had a 4 speed, some taxi operators still used 3 speeds in EA-ELs.

And there's a few Commodores, territory's and 380 running around but the Falcons are still king by a long way.

[g220ba]

Originally Posted by vztrt

And there's a few Commodores, territory's and 380 running around but the Falcons are still king by a long way.

Don't forget the fairlanes, it seems every second taxi's a fairlane or statesman these days.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by vztrt

And there's a few Commodores, territory's and 380 running around but the Falcons are still king by a long way.

Yeah the lack of a factory taxi pack hasn't stopped them, they just go to the Government fleet auctions and buy all the e-gas fleet cars.

[Mr Hardware]

Yes but they are both used Falcons correct?

Correct. However my buying of second hand falcons increases the demand side of supply/demand, in turn making resale stronger, in turn making falcon a more viable car. Also, my next car (within 12 months) will be a new falcon, indirectly because falcons are taxis.

funny how Toyota offered a Taxi pack yet Taxi's still went back to the Falcon.

I don't think there's any operators who went to Toyota then back to ford - most refuse to mess with success therefore sticking with Ford.

There you have it ladies and gentleman! better grab a AU Mark 6 wagon with e-gas before they all run out! hehe

Don't laugh, it will happen. If Ford kills the wagon, the mixer egas and the 4-speed simultaneously, the taxi industry will be crying into its coin dispensers.

They'll get used to it. After all, even though they hated when the EA2 had a 4 speed, some taxi operators still used 3 speeds in EA-ELs.

Yep, because for the extremely limited 100kmh stuff cabs do, the three speed was adequate, you could get 450-550k out of one instead of 350-450k, and cost $900 to overhaul not $1300.

Yeah the lack of a factory taxi pack hasn't stopped them, they just go to the Government fleet auctions and buy all the e-gas fleet cars.

imo if i had a choice between a petrol taxi pack and an egas, i'd be choosing the egas any day. The taxi packs were actually kinda bad, we'd purposely avoid them for our cabs because a hose-out interior is just plain bad. If you're paying $20 to get from the city to an inner city suburb, you don't wanna have worse seats than the bus.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

I don't think there's any operators who went to Toyota then back to ford - most refuse to mess with success therefore sticking with Ford.

After the Avalon passed it service time (here in melb) the Falcon was re-introduced.

[Mr Hardware]

Orly vztrt. Yes well it's a fair bit slower here in Brisbane - I believe there is only 1 commodore cab on the road, no 380s, very few priuses but a small but serious proportion of camrys/aurions/avalons. I know for a fact that at least one operator who ran the old 2.2L camry is now running the 2.4L camry.

[mickyyyy]

I just hope there knew 6 speed is as good as the BTR 4 speed just with 2 extra gears and not to expensive to rebuild as then everyone will be kept happy enough.

[US kills Falcon]

The ZF 6 speed auto is a great box. I have one in my BF MkII and have ordered a FG with the ZF box. Ford should make this standard on all auto Falcons.

[mickyyyy]

Does anyone know which 6 speed there going to use other than the ZF???

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by mickyyyy

Does anyone know which 6 speed there going to use other than the ZF???

Ford's reverse engineered version of the ZF, the 6R80. From what I've heard about it in Falcons, it isn't quite as smart or as smooth as the ZF, but should still wipe the floor with Holden's 6 Speed.

[mickyyyy]

Well thats a good sign, have they been used in any other crs already???

[Jondalar]

It would want to be a lot better than the BTR 4 speed or it wouldn't even be as good as the 5 speed currently in use.