|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
05-08-2010, 10:27 AM | #31 | ||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
|
This situation with monthly sales is starting to get silly. Actually no, it was silly 6 months ago, now its absolutely diabolical.
All of those pie in the sky dreams of global RWD platforms, Lincolns and Falcon exports will become nothing more than that unless management sort this issue out. And I think it has more to do with the pointy end of the business, not the back end.
__________________
Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
||
05-08-2010, 10:44 AM | #32 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
|
Quote:
I think Fords overall product mix is letting them down. Old Focus, old Territory, old Ranger, the Escape, these cars simply can't compete with more modern looking competitors with more features, with equal pricing. The ute isn't being advertised at all, which in itself is stupid, but at least with the Falcon there is a core of 2-2500 people a month that want a large RWD car with a Ford badge on it. But for how long? I think the perception of a large car with a large engine being a fuel guzzler is hurting it, as well as a lack of a decent, modern looking wagon variant. Say what you will about Holden's Sportwagon, one thing the Sportwagon has done for the Commodore volumes is kept them buoyant. It's given people one more reason to visit a Holden dealer. I also feel that with the buying public there is a 'once bitten, twice shy' mindset that may be a hangover from quality and service standards from a few years ago.
__________________
Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin Last edited by Road_Warrior; 05-08-2010 at 11:00 AM. |
|||
05-08-2010, 10:48 AM | #33 | ||
Guzzler
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Country Victoria
Posts: 539
|
Not to go off topic, but maybe the CASH for CLUNKERS scheme that might be introduced should only apply to replacing the old cars with Australian made cars to help prop up the industry. Just a thought.
__________________
AUI XR8 - 250kw Herrod enhanced, 18's, lowered 1999 Mustang Cobra, Mick Webb tweaked, 18's, 1971 XYGT (replica) My first love. |
||
05-08-2010, 11:53 AM | #34 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,236
|
Quote:
No, you're wrong, the choice isn't there. You're effectively forcing people to buy what's made locally. So you can "choose" anything as long as it is a large sedan, stationwagon, a ute or a large SUV. That's it. Sorry no thanks. The locals will get my money when they actually make something I want, i'm not supporting an organisation who cannot get their product range right. It looks like I'm not the only one either judging by the figures.
__________________
"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
|||
05-08-2010, 12:30 PM | #35 | ||
as in chopped
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,991
|
What other countries add tariffs to imported vehicles ? (I'm sure it's not just Australia that does it/did it).
Ford need a "Cruze" car / in comparison the Focus is a sales flop (even though it is a better car!!). The Cruze is nearly matching the Falcon sales each month. OUCH ! Another Flop is the Aurion. Large Sedan with FWD has failed against the RWD challengers.
__________________
-> Reading this signature was pointless <- |
||
05-08-2010, 12:46 PM | #36 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 259
|
I think it would be a bit rich to put tarriffs on a Mazda 3 or Ford Focus when there isn't even an equivalent Australian product you could choose from. Same for 4x4s.
|
||
05-08-2010, 12:49 PM | #37 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
Quote:
|
|||
05-08-2010, 01:00 PM | #38 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,653
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
05-08-2010, 01:06 PM | #39 | |||
Meep Meep
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southside
Posts: 1,513
|
Quote:
SUV? Territory Check Midsize? Camry Check Small? Cruze check Alternative fuels? LPG and hybrid and soon diesel check Luxo premium sedan? Caprice check Performance? XR6 turbo Check Muscle? FPV/HSV check Safety? 5 star ANCAPS and consistently high level of dynamics and braking Check Hatcback? Sportwagon check Utility? Falcon ute check The Australian based car manufacturers have just about every nook and cranny of the car market covered that they possibly can. Sometimes you have to stop blaming the industry and start realising most customers are idiots.
__________________
Thundering on.... |
|||
05-08-2010, 01:41 PM | #40 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,236
|
Quote:
Sportswagon != Hatch back. So what about if someone wants a Focus, Fiesta, Corolla, Mazda 3? What happens to the guy who is doing well and decides to splash out on a BMW 135i. None of these types of cars are offered by the locals. So my comments still stand, locals DO NOT cover all bases and again why should we have to buy them? Where is the choice? Why should I be punished for buying a Mazda 3 over a Falcon when the Mazda suits me better? Why should I buy a F6 if a WRX is all I need? Starting to get the idea?? I have bought many local made and in the end i have found they're not suitable for me. But your saying I should be made to buy any of the above even if I have no use for them? Wow, am glad you're not running the country. May be the problem is the cost of manufacturing here in this country. Is it viable anymore? Everyone wants to be paid the big bucks but haven't got the forsight to see the problems with that. You increase the pay of a manufacturing worker, the cost of the product being made must go up. Everyone gets paid more cost of living goes up, inflation increases and we become uncompetitive in the market. It's our own fault. You can increase the tariffs but I bet it won't make a difference. I'd still still buy an import, second hand or keep my current car. How many here ramp on about buying local cars, yet haven't bought a brand new car for 5+ years or ever?
__________________
"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
|||
05-08-2010, 01:47 PM | #41 | ||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
|
I think its pretty unfair to blame buyers. If you don't have a product that people want, then people won't buy it.
So if people aren't buying your product, you have to ask yourself: why aren't people buying my product? Looks? Features? Price? Service? Reliability/quality? Availability? Lets face it, there are quite a few cars in Ford's lineup that fail some of those criteria. Its a free market, and its a cut-throat market as well. If you don't have the right product, then people will happily vote with their wallets elsewhere and couldnt care less about patriotic arguments about why they shouldn't. I think the sales figures for last month demonstrate that Ford don't have the right products and what fresh products they do have, are being poorly promoted. Ford need to give people a reason to walk into their showrooms and buy their cars. Having the right products that tick all of the above boxes is that reason.
__________________
Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
||
05-08-2010, 02:20 PM | #42 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 259
|
Quote:
But in general, no I'm not in favor of tariffs. I think we pay enough in this country for cars without having to pay even more. |
|||
05-08-2010, 02:30 PM | #43 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 211
|
We shouldn't have tariffs, people shouldn't be punished for wanting a product not made locally.
However... the government should do more to support local manufacturing. In the end we can't make cars locally at the same price as in China or Korea. Therefore, the government needs to step in and help cover some of the extra cost or help pay for the cost of making the locals more efficient and dynamic. |
||
05-08-2010, 02:46 PM | #44 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
|
Quote:
__________________
Daniel |
|||
05-08-2010, 02:47 PM | #45 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
|
http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...ml?autostart=1
Quote:
__________________
Daniel |
|||
05-08-2010, 02:50 PM | #46 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
|
http://www.caradvice.com.au/77040/ma...-half-of-2010/
Quote:
__________________
Daniel |
|||
05-08-2010, 02:53 PM | #47 | |||
Meep Meep
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southside
Posts: 1,513
|
Quote:
Corolla, Mazda 3 and Focus are small cars. Cruze will be in the same class if you want. Its not about having every single car available, just the widest spread look at it this way Class A: Import (extremely low demand anyway) B: Import (this market is driven by cost) C: Cruze D: Camry E: Falcon Commodore Aurion F: Caprice Small SUV: Import only Midsize SUV: Territory Full size SUV: Import only Sport: Elfin Super Sport: Bowell etc. Given we really only have 3 factories in Australia we've got a pretty good spread of cars. Cost of manufacturing is a farce, over a 14 year life a locally made car will be cheaper to maintain than an imported one. The real issue is some people liken foreign cars to a fashion statement. That's why the tariff should stay, as long as the locals have to carry the stigma of being local the foreigners should pay a tariff.
__________________
Thundering on.... |
|||
05-08-2010, 03:31 PM | #48 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
|
some of you guys aren't viewing this the right way.
if the falcon was made in china, then there is a good chance a base model falcon brand new would be around $25k. there is no way australia could ever compete with that sort of pricing. people (many of them) buy on price. many on here bagged the 'great wall' brand of cars as being death traps and 'heaps of junk' and yet they are still selling cars. when you can buy 2 for the similare price of 1 hilux.... holden and ford are in desparate times at the moment. toyota is the only one that really has a global product so even if its not doing that well locally it is offset a bit by its global performance. i doubt falcon can survive long term on those sort of figures. they may not need to lead the sales race to turn a profit but i can't believe they can hold their head above water for too long by selling less than 2500units. why do you think there is such a stink made when a big coorporation wants to move in on a small town. lets use supermarkets as an example. if woolies sets up in a small town, the locals rally behind their small local for a while but sooner of later they go under as they can't compete with the buying power of the big company. |
||
05-08-2010, 03:40 PM | #49 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,653
|
I was reading this artcile (as a whole not really relative to this topic)
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...NEWS/100809987 But..... Under the Ranger section I read this "But this is unlikely because of the 25 percent tax on imported pickups. That tax would mean boosting the price of the Ranger close to that of the F-series trucks--a tough sell for pickup buyers." Interesting a country the size of US can help protect local jobs with a 25% import tax.. YES a 25% import tax, yet our governemnt just dropped them from 10 to 5%!! |
||
05-08-2010, 03:54 PM | #50 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
|
its almost like the govt thinks competition and lower pricing will force the local products to be better priced but instead, how many parts suppliers have gone under in the last few years?
its not really about local product v import as most of our local products are made from imported products. its just not viable to produce products at the same rate as other countries. how many people here would be happy to go to work for $5 -$10/hr? should people in the auto industry be made to work for peanuts simply so the industry can be competitive? |
||
05-08-2010, 03:54 PM | #51 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
|
Quote:
Foreign car makers such as Toyota, Honduh and Subaru built factories in the US and make cars there to bypass US import taxes.
__________________
Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin Last edited by Road_Warrior; 05-08-2010 at 04:04 PM. |
|||
05-08-2010, 03:55 PM | #52 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
|
Quote:
Thats what normal car companies would do overseas when they want a productive business that utilises machinery efficiently. Last edited by bobthebilda; 05-08-2010 at 04:13 PM. |
|||
05-08-2010, 03:59 PM | #53 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
|
Quote:
ford (US) could close down ford (AUS) and set up its manufacturing in china and then export it back to australia and probably still sell it cheaper than what it currently is. we'd still have the falcon but it would be made in china. |
|||
05-08-2010, 04:20 PM | #54 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,085
|
which segment of the market is the one pushing the biggest volumes?
i keep hearing about Aus being unable to compete against cheaper foreign product, but is it the cheap stuff thats making up the numbers? daewoo/kia/suzuki arent in the top 10 .... hell, even VW are in the top 10. suggest to me people are happy to pay more for better. |
||
05-08-2010, 04:55 PM | #55 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,458
|
Quote:
$5 an hour is still too much. Ford pays it's Mexican workers $2 an hour. We are uncompetitive in our own market for a number of reasons. I believe the biggest one, and one that nobody has touched yet is the strong Aussie dollar. When the dollar does reverse we will see the local manufacturers become competitive again in pricing. |
|||
05-08-2010, 06:05 PM | #56 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
|
Quote:
Quote:
And as the locally made cars have a high level of imported parts, then they would have an immediate hit to the profitability of the car. Sometimes, you need to be careful of what you wish for. |
||||
05-08-2010, 06:18 PM | #57 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,410
|
Quote:
Funny though because Ford has said that wages make up only about 10% of a US vehicle's build costs. Ford must be making some ripper profits on Fusion and Lincoln MKZ....... |
|||
05-08-2010, 06:19 PM | #58 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ...in the shed
Posts: 3,386
|
Quote:
|
|||
05-08-2010, 06:26 PM | #59 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,451
|
Quote:
How does a tariff fix that? No thanks. I will accept a tariff when you can prove to me that Ford dealers and Ford Australia have their act together. They sure haven't right now. Dan |
|||
05-08-2010, 06:35 PM | #60 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
|
Quote:
__________________
Daniel |
|||