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27-09-2010, 10:06 PM | #31 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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27-09-2010, 10:08 PM | #32 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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Daniel |
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27-09-2010, 10:09 PM | #33 | |||
Ford motor company
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I know lots of people are buying sports wagons but why does ford always have to follow? They canned it so why try and play catch up again, IMO it should be dead and buried
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The proud owner of an FG XR6T in DASH Manual, leather, and premium sound. Currently have chrome window surrounds, chrome boot garnish, DJR lip, slightly lowered and a home made air box with a K&N pod filter. WORK CAR: RED 1996 manual XG ute |
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27-09-2010, 10:10 PM | #34 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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27-09-2010, 10:14 PM | #35 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Sales numbers, That's the problem. Ford, a major international motor company can't get its bloody act together and is losing customers because it is product constrained, this excuse is getting very old... |
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27-09-2010, 10:24 PM | #36 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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that was to supply it with the ZF 6-speed auto, that small change and improved economy and driving pleasure would have made a heck of a difference to Territory sales. Ford don't get it, it's not about diesel, it's about getting the entry level RWD model attractive to buyers, that where your wagon buyers were but left because current RWD is little changed from six years ago.. For the waste of energy put into XT we could have almost had a Falcon sport wagon |
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27-09-2010, 11:05 PM | #37 | ||||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
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And jpd80 is right: Ford have, once again, screwed the pooch. They put all their wagon eggs in the Territory basket but then stupidly left it to wither on the vine whilst all its competitors passed it ages ago and now we are being told that the new Territory won't hit the streets until 2nd quarter next year. In the meantime, the traditional Falcon wagon has been starved to death and in some sort of cynical face saving exercise Ford now are trying to get people to be interested in a Mondeo wagon instead, but they can't get enough stock. Quote:
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin Last edited by Road_Warrior; 27-09-2010 at 11:13 PM. |
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27-09-2010, 11:11 PM | #38 | |||
Ford motor company
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Location: Victoria
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From the wasted energy into the XT, maybe almost half a falcon sports wagon :P But on a serious note I think we should all just wipe the wagon from our minds, it's almost certain to never come back so we should let it RIP
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The proud owner of an FG XR6T in DASH Manual, leather, and premium sound. Currently have chrome window surrounds, chrome boot garnish, DJR lip, slightly lowered and a home made air box with a K&N pod filter. WORK CAR: RED 1996 manual XG ute |
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27-09-2010, 11:44 PM | #39 | |||
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What interests me is the possibility of assembling Mondeo 5-door and S/W locally, our ADRs make it difficult for us to get build priority out of Euro plants, so why not build them here. No stamps and dies, import all parts and assemble / paint here eliminating the supply bottleneck. Territory RWD IS our sport wagon but we must ensure it is kept efficient and attracting buyers. Not long to go in the great scheme of things I know but still a nail biter... |
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28-09-2010, 12:02 AM | #40 | ||
BA/F6 BF/F6 SSV/R TTG
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I have a sportwagon as a company car and its great. In late 2008 I had a choice falcon wagon ( only XT and it was too poverty). Territory - first it didnt drive like a falcon sedan( felt more like a 4WD) and I wanted a RWD six speed and they told me I could only have a four speed. So I drove the sportwagon and a commodore sedan, they both felt the same. Five speed box was nice and with and without the rear seats down plenty of room in the back. I would have bought a FORD as in my family, I have a BA F6, my son has an BA XR6 and a EF wagon, my wife has a BF XR6 and a BA XT for her company car. BUT ford didnt have a car to suit me so I bought a holden. I would have paid ANY amount to have a FG XR6 turbo wagon.
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28-09-2010, 02:53 AM | #41 | ||||
Happy Volkswagen owner
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Stoney!
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28-09-2010, 06:30 AM | #42 | |||
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Before Sportwagon, Holden Sedan used to head Falcon sedans by a similar amount as the combined Sedan Sportwagon does currently. It's pretty obvious that quite a few sedan buyers have migrated to Sportwagon just as Falcon S/W buyers switched to RWD Territory years ago. So while Holden still has a commanding lead they've done it by splitting the Commodore sedan sales but also having Captiva as an import puts their sales over the top. Ford relies on Territory to combat two vehicles Sportwagon and Captiva, to do that both versions have to be up to scratch and clearly, the 4-speed auto RWD Territory has fallen behind. Diesel option and ZF 6-speed standard will help fill the gaps. |
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28-09-2010, 07:46 AM | #43 | ||
Ford motor company
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If they were to build the mondeo here, it would be in there interest first though to SOMEHOW get sufficient supply over here first though to see if it sold well otherwise that'd be another money losing exercise. But I do get what you are say it would make some sense
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The proud owner of an FG XR6T in DASH Manual, leather, and premium sound. Currently have chrome window surrounds, chrome boot garnish, DJR lip, slightly lowered and a home made air box with a K&N pod filter. WORK CAR: RED 1996 manual XG ute |
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28-09-2010, 08:21 AM | #44 | |||
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28-09-2010, 08:23 AM | #45 | |||
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I'm saying Falcon is now selling more Sedans than Commdore.. That is counting REAL sales!! |
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28-09-2010, 12:13 PM | #46 | |||
Rob
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and this is what the sporthatch has done. commodore sedan buyers are now buying hatches. for all people rave on about the massive market ford is missing out on, commodore total sales are still very similar to pre sporthatch. smoke and mirrors is their specialty and it works very well considering many of the posts on here. some of you guys should send letters of job applications in to Ford because you are obviously much more clever than their product development people, even though they have much more info at their disposal. |
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28-09-2010, 12:43 PM | #47 | |||
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28-09-2010, 01:23 PM | #48 | |||
Rob
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28-09-2010, 02:47 PM | #49 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
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The fact is Holden developed a wagon version of its current popular model and has remained strong.
We wont know how many buyers would have turned to other manufacturers had the wagon ceased with the VZ model as Holden were proactive and covered their bases. Lets face it, the last thing GMH needed during the GFC was added pressure in its only viable market place. To Fords credit it took a punt on Territory and it appears to have paid off with a successful run, however, this is not the first time in history FOA has taken a punt, stuck with it only to backflip when things didnt go quite as planned (V8 anyone). |
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28-09-2010, 03:10 PM | #50 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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With Sportwagon Holden moved into classy sporty euro type wagon which is used by young couples , cyclists and other outdoorsy types. Kind of like a local Subaru Liberty/Outback version.
Ford Falcon Wagon (as well as vt/vz commodore) was a rep mobile cargo hauler and not a lifestyle vehicle. Territory is a SUV and not a suitable replacement for low riding sporty handling lifestyle wagon. FG could of been a nice base for a really nice sporty wagon but was deemed not viable by conservative management. So if you are not one eyed badge supporter And desire localy built sporty lifestyle Sportwagon is the only choice. You can even have a V8 manual in these days of automatic only car lineups . Sales reflect this facts. |
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28-09-2010, 03:34 PM | #51 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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As per the model performance data in the Technical resources shows
http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...article&id=876 There is absolutely no evidence that the introduction of the sportswagon has made any benefit for Holden. Prior to sportswagon introduction, the commodore was selling 40116 units YTD (august). The year the wagon come out (2008), the figure was 33,000, 28772 in 2009 and is now running at 30582. The Falcon/ Territory total in 2007 (YTD august) was 34600, 2008 = 30200, 2009 = 26500 and 2010 = 28700. thus 2007 - commodore sales (YTD august) = 40116 2010 = 30582 falcon/ territory sales (YTD august) = 34600 2010 = 28700 So for all the hype the sportswagon is adding to commodore sales, it has only cannibalised its own market, thus giving it a much greater percentage fall than the Falcon/ Territory combination. Throw the captiva range into the combination, and all Holden has done over the last three years, is spend 10's of millions of dollars to develop the sportswagon, complicated its production line and diverted 10,000 buyers into an imported car. |
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28-09-2010, 03:40 PM | #52 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
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There is no argument from me that sportswagon has taken market share from the sedan, Norm picked it when they first released details of it.
What im saying is that had Holden dis-continued the wagon or even continued with the basic reps version, they would have lost a percentage of their sedan/rep wagon sales to other SUV manufacturers for nothing more than the trend at the time. Holden never expanded its locally produced market share with sportswagon, it secured it. |
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28-09-2010, 03:51 PM | #53 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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It is interesting how people look at Ford as if they are CEO of the company. Simple fact is if you want low riding sporty wagon (maybe even v8 manual) Holden has a product for you. That is looking at it as a consumer.
FG XR6 Turbo Estate would be A nice option for some consumers. Who cares if cannibalizes Territory sales :-) |
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28-09-2010, 05:05 PM | #54 | |||
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28-09-2010, 05:15 PM | #55 | |||
Lucky, lucky bastard!
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Given that it was released just before and into the lead up to the GFC, could the S/W have helped Holden retain sales that were quickly heading to other segments? So basically what i am asking is, if the S/W wasn't around today, would we have been looking at around 2000-2500 commodores (as per Falcon sales) or less sold all up as oppposed to what we saw occur and continue to see today? I dont know, i think people underestimate the value that the S/W may have provided, not necessesarily for generating new sales, but potentially for holding sales during a difficult time in history.
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28-09-2010, 05:20 PM | #56 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
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Umm...im pretty sure i already alluded to that, but i doubt anyones listening, it makes sense
The figures given for Falcon above would include wagon i would guess, will be interesting to see how much the figures change next year when the wagon is a memory. Will territory get these sales? Last edited by BENT_8; 28-09-2010 at 05:33 PM. |
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28-09-2010, 06:11 PM | #57 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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A third way to look at it would be that the $150M spend on the VE s/w could've provided for new sheetmetal for VE2/VF anyway... PS I'm currently looking at buying a second hand Territory, but if a FG sportwagon were to be released in 2012 then that would be my first new car. An XR6T one at that!
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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28-09-2010, 06:13 PM | #58 | |||
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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29-09-2010, 12:08 AM | #59 | |||
Banned
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EXACTLY what ive been thinking while reading all these missguided posts and thoughts. Theyve developed a car that has eaten out off its own sedan sales but the catch is they spent millions developing it. And to top that they import one of the biggest overated suvs in aus. The captiva....but ford have the mondeo range/wagon for that. Much better build..rep..style ..and street cred. Ford also have maintained profit and holden are still struggling to pay there gov bills and depts......nice one people....The only thing i will give yous is that the terri has taken to long to update to a satisfactory level for the punters....still sells tho... |
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29-09-2010, 06:00 AM | #60 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Rather strange that Ford saw fit to equip the XT with ZF and ignored the pleas for ZF in RWD Territory, I'm sure that a lot of dealers would be quietly peeved that Ford sat on its hands for so long, a reasonably well equipped $36,990 drive away RWD Territory with ZF is an easy sell to buyers... |
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