FG2 and beyond ...When does it arrive ?

[csv8]

Paxton..no sense of humour!!!!!! Ford Australia is again behind the 8 ball!! All new Territory and Falcon SHOULD have been released in 2010, not 2010/2011. Just look at the KIA Optima..thats gonna sell by the boatload. FORD won't even have half its equipment for the price. Don't get me wrong, I have been driving FORDS for 40 years but FORD Australia have lost the plot.....They really need to get their act together..now!!!! not late 2010/2011.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Don't be stupid.

FGII is on the cards for later this year. It will be I4T and I6/T, and LiLPG will also be making an appearance. Territory will be released first, and then Falcon will follow for late Q3 early Q4.

Taurus is not what Falcon will merge into. Taurus is under enough of a threat from Fusion/Mondeo. Falcon is still slated to merge with Mustang and develop into a GRWD platform. Just don't expect some of the things we are used to currently in Falcon to remain. I'm talking I6...

Saying goodbye to the I6 is a gimme. The V8 as well perhaps? As well as the ute - I think we'll be left with very little at the end.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Saying goodbye to the I6 is a gimme. The V8 as well perhaps? As well as the ute - I think we'll be left with very little at the end.

If the Falcon is indeed to merge with Mustang then the V8 would surely have a good chance of sticking around?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

If the Falcon is indeed to merge with Mustang then the V8 would surely have a good chance of sticking around?

Who knows, with future emissions targets V8's may become legislated out of existence, we may be stuck with little more than a V6 EcoBoost. But I'm just hypothesising...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Who knows, with future emissions targets V8's may become legislated out of existence, we may be stuck with little more than a V6 EcoBoost. But I'm just hypothesising...

I think I could "struggle on" with a 270 Kw 560 nm V6 Ecoboost......

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by csv8

Paxton..no sense of humour!!!!!! Ford Australia is again behind the 8 ball!! All new Territory and Falcon SHOULD have been released in 2010, not 2010/2011. Just look at the KIA Optima..thats gonna sell by the boatload. FORD won't even have half its equipment for the price. Don't get me wrong, I have been driving FORDS for 40 years but FORD Australia have lost the plot.....They really need to get their act together..now!!!! not late 2010/2011.

How many Kia Optimas are they bringing in this year?? 500 units or something??

Good luck them outselling the Falcon.

You have a point but at the end of the day Holdens only doing marginally better, how they cope designing and building cars specific to a market as small as Australia / New Zealand region is mind blowing when you look at other products like the Focus / Mondeo which are sold in many markets...

[gtfpv]

EEErrmmmm whats this about the I6 DELETE? thats a joke right .

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

EEErrmmmm whats this about the I6 DELETE? thats a joke right .

For a rwd Falcon to survive the I6 will have to die.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by vztrt

For a rwd Falcon to survive the I6 will have to die.

Yep that's about the size of it - for a RWD Falcon to have any chance of survival in a 'ONE FORD' world it will need to use as many corporate components as possible, chief among them a global V6 like the 3.5/3.7Litre Duratech.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

EEErrmmmm whats this about the I6 DELETE? thats a joke right .

Originally Posted by Chilliman

Yep that's about the size of it - for a RWD Falcon to have any chance of survival in a 'ONE FORD' world it will need to use as many corporate components as possible, chief among them a global V6 like the 3.5/3.7Litre Duratech.

And there it is. I've owned every generation of the Falcon I6 and as much as it pains me to say it, if the legendary 250 has to be the sacrificial lamb to ensure ongoing production of RWD Fords in Australia, then so be it.

[Rastas]

We still have 4 or 5 more years of the I6 & rwd before new falcon /whatever replaces it. Would expect notable improvements in current duratechs or possibly a new V6 to be available by then so all good as far as i can see. As far as falcons lack of gadgets, im hopeing that will be partialy addressed with fg2....

[csv8]

I have posted before, the G6E lacks specification for a luxury model. It is basically a tarted up XT. Compare the Mondeo Titanium to the G6E.What FORD needs to do is put the MONDEO specification, in the G6E at the current G6E price. Then FORD will have a big luxury car.

[Bobman]

They really need to change the FPV wheels come FG2! The XR6 N/A will probably get standard 18" wheels and hopefully the XT is discontinued in favour of G6 being the base model.

Originally Posted by vztrt

For a rwd Falcon to survive the I6 will have to die.

Sounds like scaremongering though. Just like every Falcon has been "make or break" since at least EA and even with the AU, Falcon soldiered on.

Will believe it when/if it happens and only then. People can say all sorts of things but no-one really knows until it does happen.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Sounds like scaremongering though. Just like every Falcon has been "make or break" since at least EA and even with the AU, Falcon soldiered on.

They were also selling three times as many Falcons even during that hated AU phase than they are now.

[FPV GTHO]

The upside now though is Geelong casting isnt reliant on I6 production, so the costs arent as simple as the build numbers compared to what they were years ago.

But that wont protect it against emissions and fuel economy restrictions pushing Ford into an all Ecoboost engine lineup.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

The upside now though is Geelong casting isnt reliant on I6 production, so the costs arent as simple as the build numbers compared to what they were years ago.

But that wont protect it against emissions and fuel economy restrictions pushing Ford into an all Ecoboost engine lineup.

There is also a great pull to use corporate engines, the I-6 exists because it was cheaper to upgrade it than
pay out mass redundancies at Geelong engine - the last lay off of 600 people put FoA's figures deep into the red...

Sometimes it is cheaper to do nothing for now and just coast into a corporate solution...

[FPV]

Well the pessimism is slowly starting to set in for me, especially after that other thread where its basically been said that they may look at canning local Falcon production. Anyone else able to provide any insight?

I actually don't see how they can manage such low sales, and I have never seen this many three day production work weeks for as long as I can remember.

Yes I think the Territory will give a boost to sales, and the Falcon will definately pick up at the end of the year. But if they are said to be finalising the next Ford large car within 6 or so months, that falls before the FGII is released. With its current sales figures, you couldn't blame them for looking at options that we hope they never consider.

[Franco Cozzo]

Really with the V6 Ecoboost, do we need the I6 anyways? Surely its going to be just as good if not better.

If they don't put in HIDs they should look at a factory fitment of Phillips Xtreme Vision +80s, they're really good normal halogen lights, I've got them in my WS and Mum's Festiva and they do make a difference, not just placebo effect.

Also cool gadgets like the VE has with its touch screen is a big one for me.

Do we know if Ecoboost Falcon is going to be at a premium over the normal XR6 and will it be available in manual?

[Bobman]

I don't think switching to an Ecoboost engine would suddenly make the Falcon a sales success. Marketing needs to improve big time.

I'm sure Shapes or Tim-Tams aren't selling as well as they did in the "golden era" that was the 1990s into early 2000s. A lot of businesses are suffering these days with half the customers they used to have. Hospitality is one of them. Plenty of small shops closing.

Can blame China and our Government for causing this mess IMHO.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I don't think switching to an Ecoboost engine would suddenly make the Falcon a sales success. Marketing needs to improve big time.

I'm sure Shapes or Tim-Tams aren't selling as well as they did in the "golden era" that was the 1990s into early 2000s. A lot of businesses are suffering these days with half the customers they used to have. Hospitality is one of them. Plenty of small shops closing.

Can blame China and our Government for causing this mess IMHO.

According to the 2006 Brand Asset study by advertising agency George Patterson, Tim Tam was named the nation’s third top brand behind Vegemite and the ABC, which isn’t surprising given Australians eat more than 400 million Tim Tam biscuits every year!

This was exciting news for Arnott’s as it not only confirmed Tim Tam’s status as Australia’s favourite chocolate biscuit, but highlighted that Australians continue to embrace Tim Tam as one of their favourite brands.

Tim Tam is the highest selling biscuit per capita in the world, generating more than $100m in sales annually. Tim Tam is in every second household in Australia so it’s no wonder 40 per cent of people hide their packet of Tim Tam biscuits from friends and family!

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Really with the V6 Ecoboost, do we need the I6 anyways? Surely its going to be just as good if not better.

Ecoboost V6 would be a bit of overkill to replace the entire I6 lineup

[jpd80]

Some people don't understand the concept of "platform", body architecture is not necessarily the foundation.
^^^^ This is why Camaro is so heavy and why Ford kept Falcon and Mustang separate for so long.
Sharing the same body frame system is not always the smartest thing to do with true derivatives.

In terms of up front engineering costs in a vehicle, this is the basic priority:

1) Power trains
2) Electrical systems
3) Suspension modules
4) Floorpan
5) Top hat
6) Trim and glass

Vehicles that are true derivatives actually only share the top three modules
while thing like Item 4, 5, 6 make the derivative different to the originator.

Think Territory, it shares at best 40% of its parts with Falcon and is not on the same platform.
Even though they look similar, the Floor pan, top hat glass and trim are all different.
So, why couldn't Falcon and Mustang share the more expensive components listed above?
Both could still remaining separate projects and satisfy the aims of One Ford efficiency.

[csv8]

What must FORD do to sell the FG 2 ?? low % rate ? capped price servicing ? 5 year 200,000km warranty ? ????? they don't seem to take notice of what the opposition are
doing, what if the FG 2was available on 5%, $150 fixed price servicing, 5yr 200,000km warranty as standard.??? it might get some punters thru the door and a sale?????

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

The upside now though is Geelong casting isnt reliant on I6 production, so the costs arent as simple as the build numbers compared to what they were years ago.

But that wont protect it against emissions and fuel economy restrictions pushing Ford into an all Ecoboost engine lineup.

The casting plant cannot survive on brake rotors alone.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Really with the V6 Ecoboost, do we need the I6 anyways? Surely its going to be just as good if not better.

If they don't put in HIDs they should look at a factory fitment of Phillips Xtreme Vision +80s, they're really good normal halogen lights, I've got them in my WS and Mum's Festiva and they do make a difference, not just placebo effect.

Also cool gadgets like the VE has with its touch screen is a big one for me.

Do we know if Ecoboost Falcon is going to be at a premium over the normal XR6 and will it be available in manual?

The Ecoboost 4 will be priced higher than the I6, maybe $1000 or so, and it won't be available as a manual.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by csv8

What must FORD do to sell the FG 2 ?? low % rate ? capped price servicing ? 5 year 200,000km warranty ? ????? they don't seem to take notice of what the opposition are
doing, what if the FG 2was available on 5%, $150 fixed price servicing, 5yr 200,000km warranty as standard.??? it might get some punters thru the door and a sale?????

I think the main issue is that whatever they do offer, its going to come at a cost. By all accounts, if the cars you currently make, have to be sold at a loss, then how much room do you have, to offer extras.

The best option to sell more FG 2 would be to decreaes the build cost, thus allowing more options like cheaper finance, extra warranty, capped price servicing. All this would require is for the commodore and falcon to be built on the one line (one could then be renamed the Lexcen)

[jpd80]

The best way to decrease build cost is to share more parts with Territory and
that is exactly what Ford is planning to do with a lot of this year's changes.

If Ford is going to have an SUV and a sedan that sell in relatively low numbers
then they better damned well economise and share as many parts as possible.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The best way to decrease build cost is to share more parts with Territory and
that is exactly what Ford is planning to do with a lot of this year's changes.

If Ford is going to have an SUV and a sedan that sell in relatively low numbers
then they better damned well economise and share as many parts as possible.

I hear the cars signage will be next. Both cars are going to be known as the Terrican. Just waiting for approval from Hyundai.

[naddis01]

I honestly can't see how they can charge more for the Ecoboost. Yes it sounds like a great motor but I can't think of any cars where the smaller (petrol) motor with less power and torque commands a price premium.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

I hear the cars signage will be next. Both cars are going to be known as the Terrican. Just waiting for approval from Hyundai.

You have no idea how close that actually came to occur, but not at Ford. The dollar was just too high at the time, but Hyundai may have been one of the Australian manufacturers.