Diesel is dead, says Lexus chief

[HULK EF]

Think diesel has a good future.. Imagine diesel economy.. charging batteries for an eectric motor constantly. or on demand?...

[nstg8a]

2010 rav4 diesel gets 5.8l per 100km.

[madmelon]

The problems with diesel
- high NOx due to high compression pressures and (as a result) temperatures.

-high particulate content due to poor fuel mixing (no time as it ignites as it's injected.)

...the answers to those problems:
-lower peak cylinder temperatures during ignition of fuel
-complete mixing of fuel in air charge.

This technology exists and it's called HCCI- Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition. It features well mixed fuel and still allows 'no throttle' application but side stepping the potential damage of knock and lean mixtures in a traditional SI type engine. Biggest challenges are precise control of combustion, which must be controlled by camshaft advance/retard at our current level of technology.

The problems with electric:
-takes an immense amount of time to recharge batteries

-faster it's recharged, the more total energy required (more energy goes into heating battery, amongst other things...)

-faster it's discharged the less total energy is available (more energy goes into heating battery, as above)

-even with current technology, energy density of a battery is not nearly as good as that of liquid fuels. ie, much more mass for same range with same performance.


....the answers to those problems:
-use liquid fuels, allowing fast 'recharge' times

-produce liquid fuels from non fossil resources (renewables).

This tech exists atm too and like HCCI is in its infancy. Bacteria, algae, etc can and have been genetically engineered to secrete hydrocarbons as they live. This is a more direct process than the formation of biodiesel or ethanol from fuels. It's also greatly advantaged by the fact that algae and bacteria grow extremely quickly with very little input required from man... after all, algae is a plant and they need sun, water, CO2...

Little wonder the oil companies are helping to develop that tech because when the fossil based resources run out, they'll be able to screw us over anew with that fuel.

[Martyvan]

why dont they just use the Lithium Polymer batteries, apart from the fact they can ignite in impacts, they have an immense run time (in RC Cars etc at least compared to traditional batteries) and generate more power, and are lighter overall.

Other than that, get outa my way, im in the queue for a diesel of any sort.

[Chilliman]

This just in:

Lexus is dead, says Rudolf Diesel*

....but seriously, such a daft comment really puts the 'L' in loser which coincidently is the Lexus badge!

*Rudolf Diesel was the inventor of the Diesel engine

[BFZ Wagon]

Toyota NZ offer new Rav4 & Corolla Diesel models. They're not afraid of them like Toyota Australia are.

Obviously, the chief of Lexus Australia doesn't know about the diesel model (IS 200d) that they offer in the UK..

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Martyvan

why dont they just use the Lithium Polymer batteries, apart from the fact they can ignite in impacts, they have an immense run time (in RC Cars etc at least compared to traditional batteries) and generate more power, and are lighter overall.

Other than that, get outa my way, im in the queue for a diesel of any sort.

because the patent is owned by chevron oil allso (nimh), and is expressly forbidden in the development of motor vehicles..

[FalconXV]

Hopefully by the time Euro 6 is implemented, HCCI technology makes diesel redundant. Didn't somewhere say that theres a petrol Mazda2 coming out with a SKY engine that drinks <4L/100 km? Who would take a diesel when petrol is getting those kind of numbers!
http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...020-16tul.html

[chevypower]

People always speculate that current technologies are "the future." Diesel is a current technology, and it is nothing new. It's been around for a long time. Parallel hybrid with an internal combustion engine, is also a current technology.

[ebxr8240]

Ahh the diesel V8's Toyota have at pressent are oil burners...
I'll put my $$ diesel being around..
Especially on larger heavy vehicles, SUV's etc...

[Polyal]

Lol as others said, vested interest much?

Lexii are the most over rated cars made, souless although technically good they provide no joy for their owners. They perform as well as their donor cars with a bit of bling.

[chevypower]

This is probably a good alternative to diesel for a large 4x4/SUV. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...g_ford_f15.php

[flappist]

Originally Posted by stevz

You've lost me here. What has a Laser or BA XT have to do with this?

Referal to the brake comment. Lasers had terrible brakes and the BA falcons had a lot of brake problems.

Every marque has the odd oops that is eventualy resolved with recalls or refinement.

Just in the B series:
oil eating V8
T5 in XR6T
T3650 in XR8/FPV
overheating diff
clutch in F6
BA brakes
oil pump and various other bits in BOSS
crap paint
Pursuit rear brembo push off

All eventually resolved but not buying a FG GT because the BA GT ate oil, did not stop well, had a rattly gearbox, had paint flaws in all the plastics etc. is just being one eyed........

P.S. My BA GT-P had all of the above except brakes as it had brembos not PBRs.

[Bluehoon]

What's wrong with Bio diesel? Use all the cooking oil etc!!!


Wouldn't need emissions gear at all if I'm correct?

Oh - hang on taxes! It's good enough to tax, and offer no alternative???

[aussie muscle]

"As manufacturers move to Euro 6, Australia will have to follow"
one question: why?
where does it say Australia MUST follow europe? or usa for that matter. it would mean cars imported from europe would have lower emissions than stuff made locally or in the region. australia is such a small market i don't think it'd make a lot of difference to Euro brands.

[drew`SEVNT5]

Euro5 is already in for Commercial Vehicles,(4495kg and upwards) in Australia... (01/01/11)

Euro6 is pencilled in for 01/01/16

And the Euro manufacturers are announcing Euro6 solutions as we speak...

[cheap]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

"As manufacturers move to Euro 6, Australia will have to follow"
one question: why?
where does it say Australia MUST follow europe? or usa for that matter. it would mean cars imported from europe would have lower emissions than stuff made locally or in the region. australia is such a small market i don't think it'd make a lot of difference to Euro brands.

Exactly right, this is more nonsense from "the continent" and this latest Euro 6 is designed to do one thing and that is offer further PROTECTIONISM for the European car manufacturers.

I'm getting a bit fed up with the EU mandating this and that and our successive governments simply following the EU line...

[Deco28]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

As said before, Mercedes is already working on a diesel replacement. They are combining the benefits of petrol engines (emissions) and Diesels (efficiency)
Basically a will be part time spark iginition, and part time compression iginition.

If any company has been the leader of technology on vehicles, its Mercedes.

Pretty sure Ford is also working something similar too

Yes, it's called HCCI, or Homogenous Charge compression ignition. And at the moment, don't quote me on it, I think GM is leading the way. I remember they had the press media in America test drive so early mules a couple of years back.

It's predicted to improve current petrol's economy 15-20%, which is huge. Bring it so close to the economy of a solid diesel engine.

The way I see it, if petrol engines become smaller, with small high tech twill scroll turbos, advanced ECU mapping, advanced transmissions and are HCCI compatible, there will be no need for diesels. You get all the benefits of a diesel, in an engine that actually revs.

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

As said before, Mercedes is already working on a diesel replacement. They are combining the benefits of petrol engines (emissions) and Diesels (efficiency)
Basically a will be part time spark iginition, and part time compression iginition.

If any company has been the leader of technology on vehicles, its Mercedes.

Pretty sure Ford is also working something similar too

I was reading about this somewhere, for the life of me I can't remember where.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

As said before, Mercedes is already working on a diesel replacement. They are combining the benefits of petrol engines (emissions) and Diesels (efficiency)
Basically a will be part time spark iginition, and part time compression iginition.

If any company has been the leader of technology on vehicles, its Mercedes.

Pretty sure Ford is also working something similar too

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

I was reading about this somewhere, for the life of me I can't remember where.

Yes I believe that to be true also, EcoBoost is mostly the way there, with the direct injection and turbocharging benefits, but needs to have the compression ignition also to go all the way. Couple that with hydraulic hybrid technology, and we would be up for a real treat. While I think the long term future should get us off fossil fuels completely, there are some good intermediate technologies ready to be implemented along the way.

[baker1]

worked on a euro 6 compliant diesel the other day that still had a mechanical fuel pump lol