Mental illness or just evil??

[JC]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Where do I begin?
It's such a complex and broad topic that I just don't know whether it's worth even replying.

Understanding is the key here.

Just to clarify a little bit for people that don't have much knowledge of how depression/bi-polar etc work.

Some people have genuine mental illnesses that make them do strange and sometimes awful things.

Some other people are just bad in general - part of their personality and not necessarily a mental illness, although some psychologists would have you believe otherwise. Stressing the some here. Back in the '90s, it was fashionable to diagnose all and sundry with mental illnesses - like the boom in ADD/HD in the late '90s - there was no real boom, just enthusiastic doctors.

And no, depression is not a "cop out". It's not just a case of "hardening up".

First of all, most people are unaware of what depression actually is. If somebody has depression, they are severely distressed and potentially having suicidal thoughts for an extended period of time.

Most people suffering from "depression" are actually suffering from dysthymia - a kind of cyclical state of mind where they are consistently down about life, lose interest in relationships and things they enjoy, and every now and then, have a bout of severe depression as described before.

Imagine if you felt like that all the time, even things you previously enjoyed gave you no pleasure and had no hope for the future. It's hardly suprising that a lot of drug and alcohol abusers suffer from depression because it helps them mask their negative thoughts.

Bi-polar is an even more toxic train of thought, similar to dysthymia but slot in a few periods of mania - you feel great, on top of the world, nothing can stop you - people in this state of mind often do irrational things like spending lots of money or gambling - then of course they come crashing down and the mistakes they made when manic lead to even greater depths of depression.

I have several family members with mental illness and it is incredibly frustrating - sometimes you just want to shake them out of it. But you have to step back and put yourself in their shoes. Think about what it must take for somebody to kill his or herself. To go beyond all the survival instincts that are biologically built into all of us. How bad must they feel if that is the only solution to their problem?

It is not as simple as it seems, not by a long shot.

Excellent post.

I have a sister who is diagnosed bipolar (but it was drugs that brought it on - "recreational" drugs like dope, E etc), and a brother who took his life when he started to suffer from drug induced psychosis (E also, and ketamine). I wish my brother could see how well my sister is doing these days, but he only saw her at her worst, and he didn't want to become like "that".

Evil - evil is the person who has no regard for morality, right or wrong and does what they please to who they please when they please.

[creative]

I Have very little understanding in MH but having a very close friend try to cope with Bi polar was very difficult, not just on her but also her family and friends. All I could do was be a person that she could talk to. Some of her stories would not be suitable for family ears so I believe I was her release when she needed to clear the air.

We talked many many times until I moved to Oz. I tried to keep in touch but her responses were getting more and more in-frequent. So much so, I decided to make contact with her family as I was worried and starting to see the signs that things werent right. Feb this year I get a message to say that everything had got to much for her and she commited suicide and this time succeeded. I had been able to talk to her on previous times when she was thinking of attempting it.

MH can be managed. as other have said its about the support that the individual gets. It annoys me when I see stories of people using it as an excuse for wrong doing but you never know. My friend was a very out going person, caring, extremely interlectual - studying her masters etc, part time model and fun to be with but She hid it well.


hmmm I'm rambling....

[trippytaka]

I guess the difference between mental health issues and pure evil are perpecitve. The closer you are to the issue the more clearly you see all the issues involved.

[my_gxl]

The best part out of my experiences is that in retrospect i can recognise all the signs and symptoms I was experiencing. I am now 2.5 years later, and the conditions will NEVER leave me, however I know my triggers, and am very self aware of how I am travelling at any particular time.

Understanding and non-judgemental people are the key.

I know my now ex partner was/is not one of those people, hence the ex part.

Feel free to PM for more specific info, but excuse me for not writing all my private details in a public forum.

I do use my car as my outlet, a little too much sometimes, but it helps.

[zdcol71]

The posts being put up here are such a vivid indication of the intent behind my original post. Great advice from many and a very real understanding of the complexity of peoples mental health status.
Someone asked earlier on if I was refering to a post he had made, but no, I wasn't. I was actually curious to know why so many people had jumped on board to give opinions on what they would do, or have done to, the guy who took the lives of himself, ex, kid etc, (absolutely tragic story and one which I thought had a little more to it than the usual treatment that one would expect from the likes of ACA or their equivalent) I would think that given that no-one who responded to that thread would "do the same themselves", then there must be some sort of mental health-depression issue with the person involved, and it is interesting to see how many people here have an understanding,if not empathy or experience themselves, with mental health issues.
I compared that with some threads where members had been asking for advice, or giving advice on issues that they were grappling with or had dealt with, and was impressed with the compassion and understanding shown in responding to them
I think it speaks volumes for the state of an individuals perception of what is right or wrong, (hence their ability to make right or wrong decisions) when you can see such disparate views within the members of just this one forum.

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

you've asked a question and answered it yourself . now you being angry after a visit may be part of the plan . stick to it .

I will when i can afford to .. thanks mate !!

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Where do I begin?
It's such a complex and broad topic that I just don't know whether it's worth even replying.

Understanding is the key here.

Just to clarify a little bit for people that don't have much knowledge of how depression/bi-polar etc work.

Some people have genuine mental illnesses that make them do strange and sometimes awful things.

Some other people are just bad in general - part of their personality and not necessarily a mental illness, although some psychologists would have you believe otherwise. Stressing the some here. Back in the '90s, it was fashionable to diagnose all and sundry with mental illnesses - like the boom in ADD/HD in the late '90s - there was no real boom, just enthusiastic doctors.

And no, depression is not a "cop out". It's not just a case of "hardening up".

First of all, most people are unaware of what depression actually is. If somebody has depression, they are severely distressed and potentially having suicidal thoughts for an extended period of time.

Most people suffering from "depression" are actually suffering from dysthymia - a kind of cyclical state of mind where they are consistently down about life, lose interest in relationships and things they enjoy, and every now and then, have a bout of severe depression as described before.

Imagine if you felt like that all the time, even things you previously enjoyed gave you no pleasure and had no hope for the future. It's hardly suprising that a lot of drug and alcohol abusers suffer from depression because it helps them mask their negative thoughts.

Bi-polar is an even more toxic train of thought, similar to dysthymia but slot in a few periods of mania - you feel great, on top of the world, nothing can stop you - people in this state of mind often do irrational things like spending lots of money or gambling - then of course they come crashing down and the mistakes they made when manic lead to even greater depths of depression.

I have several family members with mental illness and it is incredibly frustrating - sometimes you just want to shake them out of it. But you have to step back and put yourself in their shoes. Think about what it must take for somebody to kill his or herself. To go beyond all the survival instincts that are biologically built into all of us. How bad must they feel if that is the only solution to their problem?

It is not as simple as it seems, not by a long shot.

As others have said great post, but I do have one question, should someone that suffers from any form of mental illness expect any leniency when convicted of a crime? If so, should this leniency be extended to other illnesses, or disabilities?

My concern is that is some cases, unfortunately people are claiming they have a mental illness to receive a reduced sentence (as an example the father that threw his child off the West Gate, or the man that beheaded an old lady in Europe) I dont know whether or not they suffer from a mental illness (from there ctions you may assume they do) However does this negatively impact other sufferers, who are going through a terrible time, but still remain law abiding citizens?

Agreed its certainly not simple and in this world there is no right or wrong answer unfortunatly, as every case may be different

On a positive note its good to hear governements attempting to tackle the issue of mental health. Hopefully we can get some results for people that do suffer.

[vibe_xr6]

Originally Posted by SB076

As others have said great post, but I do have one question, should someone that suffers from any form of mental illness expect any leniency when convicted of a crime? If so, should this leniency be extended to other illnesses, or disabilities?

My concern is that is some cases, unfortunately people are claiming they have a mental illness to receive a reduced sentence (as an example the father that threw his child off the West Gate, or the man that beheaded an old lady in Europe) I dont know whether or not they suffer from a mental illness (from there ctions you may assume they do) However does this negatively impact other sufferers, who are going through a terrible time, but still remain law abiding citizens?

Agreed its certainly not simple and in this world there is no right or wrong answer unfortunatly, as every case may be different

On a positive note its good to hear governements attempting to tackle the issue of mental health. Hopefully we can get some results for people that do suffer.

Thats a good question champ and a hard one, I believe yes, to some degree. (The type of crime or how severe it is) Or the type of mental illness involved, I no that sometimes i can fully snap over the littlest things sometimes, And my mates and that have learnt how to deal with it. ( no, im not schizophrenia ) But, i would not commit a murder or anything else. So i really guess, yes, there should be leniancy to a degree. Its a really hard thing to understand, For example. Panic attacks, I have heard so many people say "what are you panicing about, or why are you panicing" Which most of you will know, that is not the case. And i personally hope that im not the only person here who believes there should be leniancy to the sufferers. But i also think, if the condition is really that bad, they shouldnt be out in the free world.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by SB076

As others have said great post, but I do have one question, should someone that suffers from any form of mental illness expect any leniency when convicted of a crime? If so, should this leniency be extended to other illnesses, or disabilities?

My concern is that is some cases, unfortunately people are claiming they have a mental illness to receive a reduced sentence (as an example the father that threw his child off the West Gate, or the man that beheaded an old lady in Europe) I dont know whether or not they suffer from a mental illness (from there ctions you may assume they do) However does this negatively impact other sufferers, who are going through a terrible time, but still remain law abiding citizens?

Agreed its certainly not simple and in this world there is no right or wrong answer unfortunatly, as every case may be different

On a positive note its good to hear governements attempting to tackle the issue of mental health. Hopefully we can get some results for people that do suffer.

It's a grey area I'm afraid, just one of those things where you'd hope the judge and jury exercise their powers of discretion. No two cases of the same and as much as judges like continuity and following precedent, it just isn't possible. The way I see it though, the justice system has a lot more problems than the fraction of insanity pleas that pass through it.

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by SB076

As others have said great post, but I do have one question, should someone that suffers from any form of mental illness expect any leniency when convicted of a crime? If so, should this leniency be extended to other illnesses, or disabilities?

My concern is that is some cases, unfortunately people are claiming they have a mental illness to receive a reduced sentence (as an example the father that threw his child off the West Gate, or the man that beheaded an old lady in Europe) I dont know whether or not they suffer from a mental illness (from there ctions you may assume they do) However does this negatively impact other sufferers, who are going through a terrible time, but still remain law abiding citizens?

Agreed its certainly not simple and in this world there is no right or wrong answer unfortunatly, as every case may be different

On a positive note its good to hear governements attempting to tackle the issue of mental health. Hopefully we can get some results for people that do suffer.

This what I'm really struggling with personally. It is only now that I've been diagnosed with a MI can I start to understand what is going on in one's mind when others with MH issues do bad bad things. In my line of work, I see people who are a product of bad childhood experiences and self induced MH issues such as drug pyschosis, alcoholics etc. They do bad things yet I now see why they do these things because their brains don't function properly. It doesn't make their crime any less abhorrent or easier to digest but understanding is a lot better than writing them off straight away. I know that I used to write them off.

[Yaw]

Ok in a little bit of a tangent on this thread. I think a lot has to do with the perception of what "evil" is. Putting Mental illness aside. and perhaps looking at this from a religious point of view. From my understaning in most religions or for better words "belief of a higher power" Most would say you need to be a particular religion be that catholic, hindu,muslim,mormon, J.W. Budhist etc, They all profess to be the one true and all others are evil or wrong. My personal thought is if this one "higher power" truly exisits how could someone that lives what they beleieve to be right and true be evil in the eyes of that higher power.

You may think I am rambling here, but think about what we percieve is evil.
Please understand I do NOT condone what Hitler did. But lets look at it from his perspective and the whole Nazi movment. He/They truly beleived what they did was correct and right. They beleived they were ridding the world of what they percieved as evil.

Now from what they thought they were doing was "good" how could a higher power judge them as evil?

****flame suit on***
I am aware it is off topic but I needed to ramble to make my point on what "evil" is.

[MO]

Originally Posted by XR6menace

Always takes one to ruin a serious thread...

Anyone else on here who has sought help , left the Psyche feeling angry and i'm not talking about the bill...

Or is just me because they make you keep bringing up and reliving the past..

"And how did it make you feel" .. maybe i need more sessions...

Yep and ended up with the tools I needed to deal with it and recognise when things need those tools,before they turn ugly.