Speed camera increasing accidents....

[sarrge2001]

Originally Posted by kpcart

blah, blah, same old rhetoric zzzz....zzz...zzzzzzz...

Originally Posted by sudszy

blah, blah, blah, same old soapbox, must........educate......the ignorant........zzzz....zzz...zzzzzzz...

It's getting tiresome, whether I agree with your points or not.......

[DJR-351]

Ban Speed Camera Threads.......

[MAD]

Interesting....

Speed cameras: minister orders 38 to be switched off
Alexandra Smith
July 27, 2011 - 12:15PM

NSW roads minister Duncan Gay has ordered that 38 speed cameras across the state be switched off immediately after an audit found that they were not improving road safety.

Mr Gay instructed the Roads and Traffic Authority to turn off the cameras after receiving a report from the state's auditor-general, Peter Achterstraat, this morning which identified the most hated cameras in NSW.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Mr Achterstraat's report found that "overall, speed cameras change driver behaviour and improve road safety" and concluded there was no evidence that they were simply cash cows for the government.

The report said that despite some increases in the cost of fines, revenue from speed cameras in 2010 was "basically the same" as in 2003 and the average number of speeding fines per camera fell after cameras were installed.

But Mr Gay said he had vowed before the election to rip out any cameras that were not effective.

“While this is encouraging, the audit also found that 38 of the existing 141 fixed speed camera locations had not reduced crashes," Mr Gay said.

“There has been community concern that some cameras are purely revenue raisers and this audit has allowed us to identify them and ensure they are removed."

The audit, which the government ordered just weeks after winning the election, found that the most hated speed cameras were the M2 Tunnel-M2 Motorway (Terry Creek and Norfolk Road), the Sydney Harbour Tunnel (Cahill Expressway and Warringah Freeway) and the Lane Cove Tunnel (Mowbray Road and the Pacific Highway).

Now if only the same would happen in VIC. I wonder how many pre-camera accidents have been abated by the cameras on Eastlink.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by MAD

Interesting....


Now if only the same would happen in VIC. I wonder how many pre-camera accidents have been abated by the cameras on Eastlink.

Finally some sense from a government. This is what is needed for people to trust that the cameras are not just for revenue. A good decision has been made.

[TheInterceptor]

Least the cams wont book you for for pushing them over (with a truck) or angle grinding it!

Ok really now. It doesnt take long to look at your speedo. This i agree with. The fact that cameras are installed in well known speeding areas that are justifyed by saying it saves lives blah blah blah is just wrong.

Booking the traffic thats at a higher flow rate. Cmon. I travel many many klms and i constantly see, on certain stretches, where nobody goes the limit but all are going at the same speed, but are over the limit. I always see a constant flow of 70 (hell even 80 at times) in a 60 zone WHICH WAS 80 many moons ago.

I have to give it to Sudzy though, i havent seen anybody put up such consistant arguments ever. Must be a lawyer hey? haha

[ltd]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Least the cams wont book you for for pushing them over (with a truck) or angle grinding it!

Ok really now. It doesnt take long to look at your speedo. This i agree with. The fact that cameras are installed in well known speeding areas that are justifyed by saying it saves lives blah blah blah is just wrong.

Booking the traffic thats at a higher flow rate. Cmon. I travel many many klms and i constantly see, on certain stretches, where nobody goes the limit but all are going at the same speed, but are over the limit. I always see a constant flow of 70 (hell even 80 at times) in a 60 zone WHICH WAS 80 many moons ago.

I have to give it to Sudzy though, i havent seen anybody put up such consistant arguments ever. Must be a lawyer hey? haha

Nope, he's either Bob Brown or Julia Gilled-tard.

[04redxr8]

Any one watch that show on 9 last night? RBT? Wow, real Police officers doing real Police work, getting bad drivers of the road. (Last nights episode showed people getting done the day after a big night.)

Lets see your damn cameras do that.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Booking the traffic thats at a higher flow rate. Cmon. I travel many many klms and i constantly see, on certain stretches, where nobody goes the limit but all are going at the same speed, but are over the limit. I always see a constant flow of 70 (hell even 80 at times) in a 60 zone WHICH WAS 80 many moons ago.

I have to give it to Sudzy though, i havent seen anybody put up such consistant arguments ever. Must be a lawyer hey? haha

I think sudszy was sick of being the only one pushing his agenda, so he made a second account called kpcart to boost the numbers. So it is now 2 vs 30


On teh topic of cars traveling the same speed, There is one road near my house where almost everyone does 70 in a 60 zone for about 500-700metres. I have even been in a group of traffic where about 8 of us were doing 70, including a cop car. IF it was so deadly they would of pulled over someone to make and example.

It is near a 70 zone, but no one slows down to 60 until they get to the busy part with parked cars, shops and traffic lights. Then at that part everyone does 50 or less in a 60 zone! Who would know most people can figure out a safe speed themselves.

[Ben73]

------

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Ban Speed Camera Threads.......

No, just ban the usual suspects, who feel the need to continually push their extreme views both ways, with zero acceptance for any view points other than their own.

Except for those few muppets, the vast majority of members can discuss these types of topics rationally with no problems, and without having to resort to belittling others views.

I will say that I believe speed cameras do slow down most motorists overall (edit. should have said "most motorists that may let their speed creep up a little. those that willfully speed, will continue to do so). I don't think a great number of cameras are in locations that have a recent history of speed related accidents (in my observation). I do completely believe that the current government in Qld use them as a revenue stream with no real aim at safety. It's a perception thing that if the speed camera revenue was directed to road safety improvements (training, road works, etc) and targeted obvious black spots, then the cameras may not get such a bad rap.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Grunter

No, just ban the usual suspects, who feel the need to continually push their extreme views both ways, with zero acceptance for any view points other than their own.

Except for those few muppets, the vast majority of members can discuss these types of topics rationally with no problems, and without having to resort to belittling others views.

I will say that I believe speed cameras do slow down most motorists overall (edit. should have said "most motorists that may let their speed creep up a little. those that willfully speed, will continue to do so). I don't think a great number of cameras are in locations that have a recent history of speed related accidents (in my observation). I do completely believe that the current government in Qld use them as a revenue stream with no real aim at safety. It's a perception thing that if the speed camera revenue was directed to road
safety improvements (training, road works, etc) and targeted obvious black spots, then the cameras may not get such a bad rap.

Agreed 100%

[Ben73]

Ok just heard on the radio 38 fixed cameras are being pulled down in NSW over the next few weeks because studies showed they did nothing for safety. Those cameras made $10 million last year.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Grunter

No, just ban the usual suspects, who feel the need to continually push their extreme views both ways, with zero acceptance for any view points other than their own.

Except for those few muppets, the vast majority of members can discuss these types of topics rationally with no problems, and without having to resort to belittling others views.

I will say that I believe speed cameras do slow down most motorists overall (edit. should have said "most motorists that may let their speed creep up a little. those that willfully speed, will continue to do so). I don't think a great number of cameras are in locations that have a recent history of speed related accidents (in my observation). I do completely believe that the current government in Qld use them as a revenue stream with no real aim at safety. It's a perception thing that if the speed camera revenue was directed to road safety improvements (training, road works, etc) and targeted obvious black spots, then the cameras may not get such a bad rap.

I will go with that....

Most off the time when i get to one of these threads the usual suspects (on both sides of the fence) have sunk it into the usual slanging match, by then i can’t bothered putting my 2c worth in...

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Seems the same people are here pushin the same agendas, wrong place. Maybe you would be better off on a traffic law forum.

Strange, its ok for people to be starting anti camera posts , "climate change is craap", "carbon tax is craap" threads and they of course have no agenda at all?

but when those choosing to expose the nonsense in the cases presented start making too much sense they are told by a moderator to visit a traffic law forum? /persue their agenda somewhere else?

[sudszy]

NSW roads minister Duncan Gay has ordered that 38 speed cameras across the state be switched off immediately after an audit found that they were not improving road safety.

Mr Gay instructed the Roads and Traffic Authority to turn off the cameras after receiving a report from the state's auditor-general, Peter Achterstraat, this morning which identified the most hated cameras in NSW.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Mr Achterstraat's report found that "overall, speed cameras change driver behaviour and improve road safety" and concluded there was no evidence that they were simply cash cows for the government.

The report said that despite some increases in the cost of fines, revenue from speed cameras in 2010 was "basically the same" as in 2003 and the average number of speeding fines per camera fell after cameras were installed.

But Mr Gay said he had vowed before the election to rip out any cameras that were not effective.

“While this is encouraging, the audit also found that 38 of the existing 141 fixed speed camera locations had not reduced crashes," Mr Gay said.

“There has been community concern that some cameras are purely revenue raisers and this audit has allowed us to identify them and ensure they are removed."

Im a little confused here. We have this statement from the auditor general:

Mr Achterstraat's report found that "overall, speed cameras change driver behaviour and improve road safety" and concluded there was no evidence that they were simply cash cows for the government.

But this is followed up with

“While this is encouraging, the audit also found that 38 of the existing 141 fixed speed camera locations had not reduced crashes," Mr Gay said.

So Mr Gay has taken it upon himself to conclude that cameras only improve the safety of the roads that they are operated on? A very simplistic approach and doesnt take into account that the presence of cameras "anytime/anywhere" changes the attitude of many drivers into one where they respect the road rules all of the time.

But Mr Gay said he had vowed before the election to rip out any cameras that were not effective.

I hope Mr Gay's decision,( based on populist policy rather than expert advice), on this issue doesnt cost any lives, Im afraid it will. Just a guess but I anticipate they will find other sections of road to put the 38 cameras they ripped out!

[TZENU]

Sudzy do you have any interest in motor vehicles, specifically Fords?

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by sudszy

...but when those choosing to expose the nonsense in the cases presented start making too much sense they are told by a moderator to visit a traffic law forum? /persue their agenda somewhere else?

Your assuming that "those choosing to expose the nonsense" are actual not sprouting nonsense themselves.

Some of what you say does make sense, unfortunately it's the demeaning way it is presented by you (and others supporting/opposing your views) that gets so many off side and so many good discussion threads closed.

[Grunter]

How about speed camaras as a positive towards "road safety".


Something along the lines of:
5-10 over speed limit. Loss of 3 points.
10-25 over speed limit. Loss of 4 points and manditory driver training/education course to be taken within a month at the offenders cost (full day course).
25+ over speed limit. Go to court and face the consequences (fines, loss of licence, etc, with driver training/education course to be taken as a condition of getting licence back).

At least there is no perception that the government is revenue raising.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by TZENU

Sudzy do you have any interest in motor vehicles, specifically Fords?

I wait with much anticipation...I asked the same question with no response.

I got done for the first time in nearly 8 years by an undercover stationary camera..10k's over, $150.

I had no idea it was there, I drive that road just the same everyday and on that day being fined did nothing to road safety at all, I continued on my Mad Max ways until I got home.

I didnt die, I didnt run over a child and no harm was done, yet the Gov is up $150 and I am down a few points...for what? Why cant these cars be marked if they were for safety. If I had known it was there I would have driven to suit..is that not the point to slow people down?

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I got done for the first time in nearly 8 years by an undercover stationary camera..10k's over, $150.

If I had known it was there I would have driven to suit..is that not the point to slow people down?

I continued on my Mad Max ways until I got home.......
....is that not the point to slow people down?

Now that you have the realisation that you could be photographed anywhere/anytime indulging in your Mad Max ways, Im guessing that you may choose to drive at or below the limit more often, not just when you see a police car or camera. So yes the point is to slow people down and in cases like yours there is generally a change in behaviour.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Grunter

How about speed camaras as a positive towards "road safety".


Something along the lines of:
5-10 over speed limit. Loss of 3 points.
10-25 over speed limit. Loss of 4 points and manditory driver training/education course to be taken within a month at the offenders cost (full day course).
25+ over speed limit. Go to court and face the consequences (fines, loss of licence, etc, with driver training/education course to be taken as a condition of getting licence back).

At least there is no perception that the government is revenue raising.

I dont really care whether people get fined or not,

Compulsory training courses? what are they going to learn that every body who has passes their licence test has been able to demonstrate....its all about having a consequence for not obeying the basic rule. By all means run some session but at the participants expense.

All in favor of them sitting out from having a licence for a while, pardon my ignorance, but how many points do you have to incur to lose a licence?

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by sudszy

I dont really care whether people get fined or not,

Compulsory training courses? what are they going to learn that every body who has passes their licence test has been able to demonstrate....its all about having a consequence for not obeying the basic rule. By all means run some session but at the participants expense.

All in favor of them sitting out from having a licence for a while, pardon my ignorance, but how many points do you have to incur to lose a licence?

The consequence is that they will have to fork out for driver training (out of pocket) and pick up some skills they may be lacking to assist them in being safer drivers. You'd have to agree that a driver who has had their licence for 20+ years would get a benefit in getting up to speed with current rules and also to hone skills in accident avoidance. They may not have been in an accident situation, but just because they have long driving experience, doesn't mean they wouldn't benefit from a refresher. Especially if they can be reminded on how "speed kills".

Points are 4 for P platers. 12 for Opens. Points are returned for each offence after 3 years I believe.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Now that you have the realisation that you could be photographed anywhere/anytime indulging in your Mad Max ways, Im guessing that you may choose to drive at or below the limit more often, not just when you see a police car or camera. So yes the point is to slow people down and in cases like yours there is generally a change in behaviour.

You would assume that but no.

I "changed my ways" for about 24 hours after I got the letter and then forgot all about it and I still drive, responsibly but care more for driving to the condition than anything else.

Like most I assume, I just about lost my license while on my P's and this is my first infringement since then, I have never been in an accident or claimed anything through insurance. So "my ways" are actually not dangerous at all.

Sudszy you even left out my quote asking about what your interests are here, what classic do you own? What brings you to this wonderful blue part of the world?

[MAD]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Now that you have the realisation that you could be photographed anywhere/anytime indulging in your Mad Max ways, Im guessing that you may choose to drive at or below the limit more often, not just when you see a police car or camera. So yes the point is to slow people down and in cases like yours there is generally a change in behaviour.

Fixed cameras dont promote a anywhere/anytime fear. They are always in the same place, everytime.
The best anywhere/anytime method is larger numbers of police and mobile speed cameras only.
Copping a fine in the mail 2-4 weeks after the event does very little to change driver attitude. The vast majority of speeding fines dealt out are those below 10km/h. I'm am 100% sure that the majority of these fines occur when someone has accidentally paid too much attention to what is around them, rather than their speedo. I guarantee, that 100% of drivers will occasionally unintentionally creep up to a point that would trigger a fixed speed camera.

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Now that you have the realisation that you could be photographed anywhere/anytime indulging in your Mad Max ways, Im guessing that you may choose to drive at or below the limit more often, not just when you see a police car or camera. So yes the point is to slow people down and in cases like yours there is generally a change in behaviour.

That just means im alot more wary of:

In the city: Parked cars or any cars parked on the roadside in the form of utes with canopy's, territory's and van's or anything that looks out of place or that would otherwise be illegal.

On the highway: Any car parked on the side of the road. Any car in the middle strip. I look far in the distance for any vehicle parked on the middle section and on the left side of the road.

90kmph is a rediculously rediculous limit for P1. Ive done 3700 odd klms on the highway in the past month or so. Had just about bloody enough.

Actually, would going 91 in a 110 zone on P1's mean im a danger? Same concept me thinks.

[Polyal]

Yes and the cheeky bugger was 2/3's the way down a hill aswell...grr

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I wait with much anticipation...I asked the same question with no response.

Mate, you nailed what mode of transport in another closed thread.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1337133&page=3

[cobramania]

There was an Ex-NSW Highway patrol officer on the radio this afternoon, he said that the best & most effective power he had, was the discretion to issue a fine or not, & it depended on the attitude of the driver as to whether he did when he pulled them over. He said that if he pulled someone over, it immediately arrested/halted the situation & that driver would generally consider their driving behaviour for at least the rest of their journey. He said speed cameras don't have any discretion, you go past over the limit & you get a fine, it also doesn't do anything to arrest the speeding situation & change the drivers behaviour. He said speed cameras do nothing to stop someone speeding all the way from Brisbane, getting a fine from every speed camera on the way & then killing themselves or someone else while still speeding across the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by cobramania

There was an Ex-NSW Highway patrol officer on the radio this afternoon, he said that the best & most effective power he had, was the discretion to issue a fine or not, & it depended on the attitude of the driver as to whether he did when he pulled them over. He said that if he pulled someone over, it immediately arrested/halted the situation & that driver would generally consider their driving behaviour for at least the rest of their journey. He said speed cameras don't have any discretion, you go past over the limit & you get a fine, it also doesn't do anything to arrest the speeding situation & change the drivers behaviour. He said speed cameras do nothing to stop someone speeding all the way from Brisbane, getting a fine from every speed camera on the way & then killing themselves or someone else while still speeding across the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

They also have a disproportionate effect in public perception of policing and road safety. Not many people get a fine and think "gee I'm lucky to have survived that dangerous driving 5km/h over the limit!" Instead, most react with anger and distrust in the system. This distrust is pushed even further when your house/business is broken in to and valuables stolen. Often they do not even bother turning up because they don't have the time and are unlikely to make an arrest. Yep, policing at its finest. That is why some call the little black boxes "jury **ckers". People are so angry and distrustful they willfully thwart convictions when they serve on a jury...

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Strange, its ok for people to be starting anti camera posts , "climate change is craap", "carbon tax is craap" threads and they of course have no agenda at all?

but when those choosing to expose the nonsense in the cases presented start making too much sense they are told by a moderator to visit a traffic law forum? /persue their agenda somewhere else?

See below

Originally Posted by TZENU

Sudzy do you have any interest in motor vehicles, specifically Fords?

Its clear sudszy have no interest in Fords or even cars for that matter, a simple browse through your posts points out this.
Most of the posts you have made are all in traffic oriented threads and have contributed nothing but to push your hidden blatantly obvious agendas. Its clear you couldnt care about what this forum is about, FORDS Im not the only one to notice the crap you are pushing, hence my statement on trying another forum that may be suitable to you.
Like
http://www.aussielegal.com.au/forum/...ics~FID~49.htm
http://www.theattorneysforum.com/traffic-law-forums/

Originally Posted by cobramania

There was an Ex-NSW Highway patrol officer on the radio this afternoon, he said that the best & most effective power he had, was the discretion to issue a fine or not, & it depended on the attitude of the driver as to whether he did when he pulled them over.

I agree with this, i had this happen to me a few weeks ago with something that might have netted me a licence suspension. He pulled my over, i was nice to him agreed to his requests etc and agreed with what he said. Got nothing.