UK motorways to be 80mph (130km/h) 2013

[Franco Cozzo]

About last year some time there where a crapload of potholes in our major main highway and plenty of damage resulted to cars, it got so bad that there was a big group of locals attempting a class law action against Vic Roads.

Vic Roads solution?

Reduce the speed limit from 100km/h to 80km/h to make it safer, not actually fix the pot holes. Luckily it didn't go ahead.

Freakin' rediculous.

[mik]

Originally Posted by fmc351

I can not believe after all this time, this line of argument still comes out. The response assumes no evasive action. The limit is about reducing impact speed in those situations, its not stating that at 60 mph you wont die if you hit a tree. A better question in relation to speed limits is what speed will you be doing when you hit the object. In other words, how much more distance is required to stop at 80 v 62. See if you notice whatever object at the same point on the road and hit the brakes, at 62 you will stop quicker (wash off speed to a lower impact speed at least) than you would be if you were originally traveling at 80. As an example you might be doing 40 at impact if traveling at 62, compared to impact of say 62 if traveling at 80. I think you have more chance of surviving at 40. Still doesnt guarantee anything, but its clearly an improvement in your chances in that situation, or more importantly in the setting of limits, someone elses chances. Youre not the only one at risk when driving and the rules are not simply set to save your life, they are set to save other peoples lives. The ads might focus on you and your life or loved ones, but the fact is the purpose of the law is far more encompassing. By the same reasoning you would be safer at 50 too, so there has to be a trade off between convenience and harm minimisation. Currently in most states its 100-110km/h.

The question is what is the balance that most Aussie road users are happy with. I think youd be surprised at the result as I dont think it will reflect a motoring enthusiast sites opinion. Most people I know would be in favour, but like me, they like driving and cars, we tend to associate with like minded people. But the general population arent interested and would be more concerned about what other drivers are also doing said higher speeds and what risks that entails to them and their family.

well my understanding is common sense says you just would`nt have a 130 kph speed limit in an area that is prone to peak heavy traffic or hard braking, and you mention the word risk. well risk should also be weighed with fatigue taken into account, for which you see plenty of people run off the road from long distance boring journeys traveled at a slow pace , lets face it modern cars most of them could happily sit on 130kph, we are`nt driving 62 model falcons or ek holdens (well most of us are`nt , no disrespect to those that are ).

[Franco Cozzo]

This is around the corner from my house:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/867...1001130952.jpg

If this crappy road can have a 100km/h limit, why can't highways have something higher?

[creative]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

This is around the corner from my house:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/867...1001130952.jpg

If this crappy road can have a 100km/h limit, why can't highways have something higher?

Lol thats classic!


As for the raise in limit.... about time!

Motorway limits were put in place when safety was just a word and cars had things that resemble brakes but worked like chocolate fireguards.

The motorways in the uk are better than here and the rules are definately better.. ie keeping left etc etc. You still get your middle lane hoggers but no where near as many as you do here. The speeds in this country feel slow by comparison... and they are, just.

it isnt speed that kills people, its the impact of hitting something and as always this boils down to driver ability... or lack of, to stop this happening. It all begins at the learner stage... educate teach and educate some more!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

This is around the corner from my house:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/867...1001130952.jpg

If this crappy road can have a 100km/h limit, why can't highways have something higher?

I have been looking for a pic I have like that except it has a (//) but it is hiding.

Actually in reality that road would be better with a (//) sign which means "drive to conditions" as opposed to the de facto implication the (100) means "drive at 100km/h).

[TheInterceptor]

There is a road near Bathurst with the (//) signs still up. The road looks exactly like the one Big Damo posted.

Also theres a literal "drive to the conditions" sign on the dirt road to Yalwal near Nowra NSW.

Australia with higher limits? I think never ever ever by the way its going...all the brainwashed people and govco... never ever...

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by mik

well my understanding is common sense says you just would`nt have a 130 kph speed limit in an area that is prone to peak heavy traffic or hard braking, and you mention the word risk. well risk should also be weighed with fatigue taken into account, for which you see plenty of people run off the road from long distance boring journeys traveled at a slow pace , lets face it modern cars most of them could happily sit on 130kph, we are`nt driving 62 model falcons or ek holdens (well most of us are`nt , no disrespect to those that are ).

Many things contribute to accidents, theres no disputing that. The fact that someone in their 30's could have a stroke, or fall asleep and kill themselves or a passing family does not mean speed isnt relevant or worth pursuing. And Im not saying theyve got it right, I personally think 130 would be a good speed limit on some freeways at least outside peak times, for me anyway. All Im saying is speed management is designed to reduce speed at impact in most situations in the manner I explained. We know 110 will likely kill you if you hit a big gum tree, as you previously stated yourself. A safe speed might be 20km/h, we have 100/110 so Id suggest a balance to some degree is being made between fatigue and safety.

Whether that balance is right is another question. But to answer it youd have to consider who has a right to use roads. Considering all levels of motorist as they have rights too, and pay for the roads.

Originally Posted by Ben73

How should these 2 roads have the same limit?
When picking speed limits in Australia do they just pull random numbers out of their **** or what?

Probably because every now and then, someone pulls up in the narrow strip on the verge to take pictures for internet debates.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

This is around the corner from my house:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/867...1001130952.jpg

If this crappy road can have a 100km/h limit, why can't highways have something higher?

good pic Big Damo, how long does that road go for??

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by flappist

I have been looking for a pic I have like that except it has a (//) but it is hiding.

Actually in reality that road would be better with a (//) sign which means "drive to conditions" as opposed to the de facto implication the (100) means "drive at 100km/h).

Exactly, I've tried 100km/h on it before just for the sake of seeing if it was possible safely but my Fiesta and Focus didn't like it, once you go above 80km/h you hold the steering wheel straight but end up wondering all over the road and you can feel its not right, so I backed off quickly. It wouldn't take much to put yourself into the trees, all it would take is to hit a decent sized pothole and you'll lose it.

Not only would 100km/h be fairly risky (in my cars anyways) but it gets rather narrow as you go along, so its barely room for two cars, I've been on that road and come across someone else coming in the other direction, I just pull over to the side in the grass and let them pass.

Originally Posted by mik

good pic Big Damo, how long does that road go for??

Probably 5km or so, it also has other dirt roads intersecting it, with nothing other than give way signs at the intersections, no other warnings telling you theres an intersection ahead. I find it rather fitting that it ends up at the Cemetary .

It runs parallel (speeeeeling?) with the main highway, basically goes to the same place anyways, as I said with the other roads which intersect it, goes past a lot of farm land, not sure where they lead onto though.

[SSVPom]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Having spent quite a bit of time in the UK driving on the motorways, they are far different to the highways here. In addition UK drivers actually keep to the left unless overtaking, and they are not allowed to overtake on the left of another vehicle. Also lorries (trucks) and cars with trailers and caravans are limited to lower speeds (60mph), so they are in the left lanes only.
Travelling on the motorways at 70mph seems slow due to the expanse of the motorway. Most of the time travelling at 70mph you are amongst the slowest vehicles on the motorway and most are passing. Makes sense to up it to 80mph, since thats what they are generally travelling anyway, unless theres a traffic jam, and then they are real jams.
Road markings are also far superior to what they are here. Plenty of warnings and 'Get in Lane' signs, and drivers actually obey them, unlike here where they push in at the last second.
So there should not be any comparison with UK motorways speeds to what they should do here, unless driver habits, road rules and quality of highways dramatically change. Can't see that happening soon.

Absolutey spot on - I agree with all of the above.

[Brazen]

contrary to popular Fordforums beliefs. Overseas motorways arnt made out of special fairy dust which makes them better than a modern Australian freeway. They are basically designed to identical overseas standards like bridges and skyscrapers. Many of our road engineers and designers are project leads for overseas freeways - many overseas engineers come here to train.

Recent roads I have worked on like the Northern Expressway in Adelaide and upgrades to the Pacific Highway are world class. I cannot remember a recent freeway or highway I have been involved with a design speed less than 130kmh. Our road builders are simply world leaders.

Using rural poorly maintained B-roads as examples for not increasing limits on modern freeways does not contribute anything to the discussion.

Oh and the idea that overseas people are somehow magically better drivers
than Australians is a joke. You travel anywhere and if you are slow you will get tailgated and cut-off. For me Australians are some of the most courteous considerate drivers around, many places overseas it is every man for themself. If overseas drivers do have better skills it is simply because the higher speeds force it, the same thing will happen here if limits are raised. Amazingly Australians arnt missing a 'good driving gene'.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Brazen

contrary to popular Fordforums beliefs. Overseas motorways arnt made out of special fairy dust which makes them better than a modern Australian freeway. They are basically designed to identical overseas standards like bridges and skyscrapers. Many of our road engineers and designers are project leads for overseas freeways - many overseas engineers come here to train.

Recent roads I have worked on like the Northern Expressway in Adelaide and upgrades to the Pacific Highway are world class. I cannot remember a recent freeway or highway I have been involved with a design speed less than 130kmh. Our road builders are simply world leaders.

Using rural poorly maintained B-roads as examples for not increasing limits on modern freeways does not contribute anything to the discussion.

Oh and the idea that overseas people are somehow magically better drivers
than Australians is a joke. You travel anywhere and if you are slow you will get tailgated and cut-off. For me Australians are some of the most courteous considerate drivers around, many places overseas it is every man for themself. If overseas drivers do have better skills it is simply because the higher speeds force it, the same thing will happen here if limits are raised. Amazingly Australians arnt missing a 'good driving gene'.

Hang on, are you say you build roads in Australia and actually have driven overseas.

Sorry, actually doing or experiencing things first hand is worthless, you need to get your facts from the internet, a pro government handout or a couple of mates in macca's carpark to have any credibility here.....

[SSVPom]

Originally Posted by Brazen

contrary to popular Fordforums beliefs. Overseas motorways arnt made out of special fairy dust which makes them better than a modern Australian freeway. They are basically designed to identical overseas standards like bridges and skyscrapers. Many of our road engineers and designers are project leads for overseas freeways - many overseas engineers come here to train.

Recent roads I have worked on like the Northern Expressway in Adelaide and upgrades to the Pacific Highway are world class. I cannot remember a recent freeway or highway I have been involved with a design speed less than 130kmh. Our road builders are simply world leaders.

Using rural poorly maintained B-roads as examples for not increasing limits on modern freeways does not contribute anything to the discussion.

Oh and the idea that overseas people are somehow magically better drivers
than Australians is a joke. You travel anywhere and if you are slow you will get tailgated and cut-off. For me Australians are some of the most courteous considerate drivers around, many places overseas it is every man for themself. If overseas drivers do have better skills it is simply because the higher speeds force it, the same thing will happen here if limits are raised. Amazingly Australians arnt missing a 'good driving gene'.

Incorrect matey - as I and many other forum member here can testify with first hand experience, Australian drivers are not the most courteous and considerate, and in fact are probably some of the worst in the developed world. This is really only due to poor training, poor under developed arterial road networks, some key missing road rules on freeways (keeping left unless overtaking) and the fear of getting caught in a speedtrap at any given moment !

Add in to the mix the higher proportion of older cars on the roads without current safety features, and the fact a 17 yr old can jump legally behind the wheel of a 200bhp RWD sedan and do burnouts and drifts (commonly into trees with 5 mates in the car) and you have the current situation here right now - Chaos !

[flappist]

Originally Posted by SSVPom

[/b]

Incorrect matey - as I and many other forum member here can testify with first hand experience, Australian drivers are not the most courteous and considerate, and in fact are probably some of the worst in the developed world. This is really only due to poor training, poor under developed arterial road networks, some key missing road rules on freeways (keeping left unless overtaking) and the fear of getting caught in a speedtrap at any given moment !

Add in to the mix the higher proportion of older cars on the roads without current safety features, and the fact a 17 yr old can jump legally behind the wheel of a 200bhp RWD sedan and do burnouts and drifts (commonly into trees with 5 mates in the car) and you have the current situation here right now - Chaos !

Quick question.

Have you driven all over Australian or just in Melbourse/Cities/Arterial roads?

I have found all over the world that the cities and close areas contain a much higher percentage of bad drivers than the remote/regional areas.

Information based on personal driving in NZ/USA(20 odd states)/Canada(4 provinces)/Mexico/Tahiti/China/Every State, Territory and large city in Australia.

[V8XTasy]

can't be true, I've been told categorically by the TV and radio that speed kills. So why would any country increase the speed limit. It's the only cause of crashes and the only way to reduce them is to reduce speed and have lots of speed cameras. That's the only way incidents are going to reduce.


....or maybe that just sounds good and raises money, unlike improving the roads and creating more disciplined drivers which would cost money and use up brain cells. Most freeway drivers in the UK do 130kph+ already and there are far less accidents, but then you don't get many idiots in the fast lane doing 80 trying to block the traffic and forcing people to overtake on the left to get past them. It's disciplined, use the right lane to overtake, then move back to the left. When someone is merging form the on ramp, don't let it be a complete surprise and brake at the last minute, let them merge. If the traffic slows in your lane by a fraction, don't swerve into the left or right lanes forcing others to brake hard to gain a fraction of a second, just wait until it speeds up again or change lane when it's appropriate. This way the traffic flows and you can go fast! As yes, stop allowing learner drivers to drive 250hp rwd cars! Nobody in the whole of Europe allows that. Not unless they are extremely rich to afford the insurance.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by flappist

I have been looking for a pic I have like that except it has a (//) but it is hiding.

Actually in reality that road would be better with a (//) sign which means "drive to conditions" as opposed to the de facto implication the (100) means "drive at 100km/h).

:-)

Actually, the sign to use is the "END speed limit sign", contains the english word 'END' and a number in a circle representing the ceasing speed-limit; eg 'END 60'. The maximum speed after this sign (catalogued as R4-12 in AS 1742.4 of 1999 and 2009) is *your jurisdictions "default" rural speed-limit*. The sign is meant for crappy roads.
http://www2.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Inte...signs.asp#H002

[b055m4n]

hi fell'as four months ago the wife and me drove across Brittan they know how to drive well just better drivers,The freeway to Dover i never drove below 150kph and even followed a Rangerover and Jaguar motoring 200-215 kph for 15-20 minutes not a problem, the motorway had three and four lanes each way bloody brilliant.

[leighm]

130 would be great on selected roads. It would only be roads that were suitable...though it will be a long time before that happens in Australia.

To all those who think it's a bad idea, if it ever does happen, stick to 110 in the LEFT lane thanks.

[2011G6E]

Speed limits won't rise here for a while...they finally convinced the NT to bring in a 130kph speed limit (and the road toll rose by 50% in the first 12 months after that great idea), and we have had "serious" letters to the editor in some papers I have read saying with increased traffic loads on the highways, if it mightn't be a good idea to drop the open road limit to 80kph...for "safety".

[XRDeeze]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Speed limits won't rise here for a while...they finally convinced the NT to bring in a 130kph speed limit (and the road toll rose by 50% in the first 12 months after that great idea), and we have had "serious" letters to the editor in some papers I have read saying with increased traffic loads on the highways, if it mightn't be a good idea to drop the open road limit to 80kph...for "safety".

whats the speed limit in the NT now? shouldve stayed an open zone highway

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Ford_XR603

whats the speed limit in the NT now? shouldve stayed an open zone highway

Serious?

Rural default 110km/h. Certain highway stretches 130 km/h.

If CLP get in, they'll replace some 130km/h lengths with (//) again. This is their policy, now.

I expect the nations 'rural defaults', 100-110km/h to reduce to 80-90km/h

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

I expect the nations 'rural defaults', 100-110km/h to reduce to 80-90km/h

People already drive at anything between 100-150km/h on our crappy single lane each direction highway out of our area, reducing the speed limit won't do much out here.

Its nuts, I leave for work at 6AM and its like the commercial vehicle grand prix, vans, utes, 4X4s all doing over the limit and overtaking in dangerous spots. Oh and the ocasional Camry driving at 70km/h with just their parkers on in pitch dark.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its nuts, I leave for work at 6AM and its like the commercial vehicle grand prix, vans, utes, 4X4s all doing over the limit and overtaking in dangerous spots. Oh and the ocasional Camry driving at 70km/h with just their parkers on in pitch dark.

LOL excellent description of the Australian driving scene - except you forgot to say the Camry is driving in the right lane!

Until the driving skills and awareness levels of all Australian drivers rise to the same level as those in UK/Europe, gains in speed limit are going to be offset by road hogs slowing things down - those who like "staying in front" at all costs and at the lowest possible speed and lacking any clue about moving to the left to allow faster traffic past.

[Keepleft]

I was going to make a new thread about merging onto a freeway and as to lane discipline, but instead thought I'd put this 6 min YT vid here, bloke found and posted it elsewhere:-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI2rFZOBSUw

Enjoy!

[mik]

brilliant choice of video , i dub thee SIR KEEPLEFT !

[turbodewd]

Without a doubt the roads between Melbourne-Canberra-Sydney are very good in parts and would easily support 120kmh. I mean cars are far far safer than 30 years ago when the speed limits were the same.

[kypez]

I just did a drive from Sydney to Alice Springs via Adelaide and back last week. I must admit I was blown away by the courtesy on the Stuart Highway. I'd say over 90% of all the cars I passed saw the driver give me a wave to say G'day. It was fantastic! Though the fuel consumption went through the roof when I got to the 130 zones (close to 15 litres/100) compared to 12 litres/100) at 110.

On topic on the road surfaces, after driving the whole drive (6229 kms all up), when I got back onto the Hume at Wagga, it was amazing how much smoother the road was compared to the 130kms/hr limited Stuart Hwy! I felt like I was floating on air! I think we could have 130 limit on the Hume and other such roads when away from the built up areas. For example, in Sydney, when you get past Campbelltown maybe we could have a 130 zone till 10 kms out of major towns or cities where it traffic can be expected to increase and thus reduce to a "safer" 110?!

[Linkachu]

Aus Gov thinks the faster you go the more people die, speed cameras save lives and the justice system is not flawed.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Linkachu

Aus Gov thinks the faster you go the more people die, speed cameras save lives and the justice system is not flawed.

Every time I pass those 'slowing down won't kill you' TAC banners, I think a more honest, fitting slogan would be 'staying at home won't kill you'. If Australia is dead set on eliminating the road toll, everybody should just stay home. Problem solved. Well with GovCo spending big on National Broadband Network, instead of roads and infrastructure, maybe one day this Ad will be reality.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Every time I pass those 'slowing down won't kill you' TAC banners, I think a more honest, fitting slogan would be 'staying at home won't kill you'. If Australia is dead set on eliminating the road toll, everybody should just stay home. Problem solved. Well with GovCo spending big on National Broadband Network, instead of roads and infrastructure, maybe one day this Ad will be reality.

Hitting a car at 30km/h because you were doing 68, in a 60 zone, will kill you, but hitting a car at 30km/h because you were doing 68, in an 80 zone, won't.
Simple laws of physics apparently.