Holden staff granted 22% pay rise.......

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by csv8

And NSW ,Victorian and Queensland nurses cann't get a pay rise !!! something is out of wack??? NSW and Victorian Governments are trying to reduce nurses !!!! but good on Holden workers for the pay rise..Holden cars will go up in price.

maybe theyre spending the money they think theyll earn allready. they allready just raised all the prices for the cruize and the new gas commadores are like 7G MORE THEN THE EQUIVALENT ECOLPI FORD. Dont quote me on the EXACT figures. Really seems disgusting that a company like holden aus can do something like this.....but we dont know everything yet.....except that were already paying for holden to be here and sell a much inferior product line up than the unbelievably underperforming Ford aus.
BETTER EXPALIN YOURSELF HOLDEN

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

One last question, what is the average manufacturing wage? I am not after the average wage because that includes hospitality at $5 an hour and lawyers at $400 an hour, what is the average wage in manufacturing?

Was $58.5kpa in May 2010.

[mrghia]

It's just gonna be GM's exit strategy in a couple of years.
Pay rises now the close doors in a yr or 2 with the excuse they can afford to pay there wages

[Dr Smith]

Before anyone goes blaming unions for this agreement, lets remember it was a mutually agreed decision with no industrial action from the unions and a very willing Holden management that agreed to it. My big issue is how will Holden justify asking for government handouts when such a decision can be agreed to with it's workforce. Sure their workers took pay cuts and reduced hours before however the perception this agreement gives out to the public can't and won't help the car industry in general.

[Nikked]

Nothing but a carrot...

Looks like Unions were unhappy, there has been job layoffs...Holdon steps in and give workers more money.

Workers are happy, Holdon become media darlings again.

[Pub247]

I wonmder if it was ford doing this would everyone be saying the same thing. A lot of people are just going on what said but not necassarily true .

You cant take in a average manufacturing wage these would include some industries which earn a lot of money.

50k + is more than what i earn so holden and ford people have nothing to complain about dont hear me having a sook

[Windsor342ci]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Nothing but a carrot...

Looks like Unions were unhappy, there has been job layoffs...Holdon steps in and give workers more money.

Workers are happy, Holdon become media darlings again.

I wouldnt think that the competition goes as far as staff wages... But stranger things have happened.

Union the death of Automotive industry? Big call.... Death? Maybe not death, but surly the blow to the head that knocked them on there knees...

[Bossxr8]

Its really only 3% a year, and a bonus for people who were disadvantaged ie. took a big pay cut, during the GFC.

Move along nothing to see here.

[gtfpv]

[QUOTE=Jim Goose]Reading the ABCs site... its says its 18%... and it hasnt been signed off yet and yes apparently there hasnt been any pay rises in a while by the looks.[/QUOTE


great point there mate . so the REAL story is . staff hgad had pay cuts in previous years , and then endured no annual pay rises at all , and suffered huge superannuation losses along with other superfunds across australia , and now they are getting 6% per annum for the next 3 years . ,
Sooooooooooooooooo !!!!!! HOW MUCH DOES THAT EQUATE TOO OVER THE LAST say 7 years in the form of annual percentage increases ????

MY BET is that some of the people bagging this announcement , may have gotten 2% pa or less and still be better off than holden employees in the form of pay rises ....
AS I SAY . if holden cannot pay sustainable wages and sustain the manufaqcturing industry because govts sell us out to overseas companies and third world suppliers . than shut the doors ?
( PUT UP OR SHUT UP !!!! )

[jpd80]

Holden says it is yet to sign off on a deal which could see workers receive an 18 per cent pay increase over the next three years, but a final decision is expected by the end of the month.

Don't break out the champagne yet, a lot is happening fast....

1) two shifts become one, 480/day looks like becoming 360/day
2) you don't need 4,000 people to make 360 cars a day...

[Bossxr8]

Rental sales have really dropped off for Falcon, Commodore must be the same, so the numbers aren't looking good for the month ahead.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Rental sales have really dropped off for Falcon, Commodore must be the same, so the numbers aren't looking good for the month ahead.

More of the same I'm afraid - I'm hearing that dealerships are not seeing a lot of buyers for Falcon or Commodore...

All we can hope for is that the imports pick up the slack, Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo it's up to you...

I wonder how long Ford and GM will watch sales before making up their minds....

[burnz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

More of the same I'm afraid - I'm hearing that dealerships are not seeing a lot of buyers for Falcon or Commodore...

All we can hope for is that the imports pick up the slack, Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo it's up to you...

i wish you woudn't put it like that..think oz.
ford/holden, to flog off the imports with broady/elizabeth, worker get extended smoko's..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by burnz

i wish you woudn't put it like that..think oz.
ford/holden, to flog off the imports with broady/elizabeth, worker get extended smoko's..

I'm not going to preempt anything here but the current build numbers at Ford may still be too high...
Or more correctly, sales this month haven't come up to expectations....

[2011G6E]

If i'd taken a voluntary pay cut during the GFC on the proviso that when the economic situation got better, i'd go back to normal wages, then i'd expect to eventually get a pay rise too...

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its really only 3% a year, and a bonus for people who were disadvantaged ie. took a big pay cut, during the GFC.

Move along nothing to see here.

Exactly and the management are trying to put in place a framework that gives every employee an interest in the achieving the best quality and lowest cost per car they can. A smart move that goes against the anti union, anti everything not a management bonus brigade and sees employees as stakeholders in the company and fundamental to its success and reputation. This is called old school business. Ironically started by the Americans like Heinz in the great depression and then forgotten in the rush for executive bonuses and cost cutting after the war.

A smart CEO making a smart move to try and offset Australia's higher costs and shrinking manufacturer base, with a motivated and smarter working workforce. People always work better with a carrot and not a stick.

Lets face it, come 2016 we are down to two vehicle manufacturers, so Holden is trying to give themselves the best chance by recognising the sacrifices their staff have already made and trying to get them onboard for the challenges ahead.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Anyone know Holden's wages, a Ford production worker is on $51k a year, although down days in the last few years have reduced that a little bit. $30 pay rise in the last three years is all they have received. EBA is up for negotiation this year too.

The lowest rate (non apprentice) is currently N21 classification which was $930 per week as of 15 Nov 2010 (probably now 3% higher), this is for vehicle assemblers. For non trade employees (non supervisory etc), it goes up to N33 classification, which was $1093 per week as of Nov. 2010

N21 $930.10
N22 $954.00
N23 $977.60
N31 $1,025.80
N32 $1,031.40
N33 $1,093.10

N33's are your die setters, control room operators, qa audit etc etc.

[1TUFFUTE]

[QUOTE=gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Reading the ABCs site... its says its 18%... and it hasnt been signed off yet and yes apparently there hasnt been any pay rises in a while by the looks.[/QUOTE


great point there mate . so the REAL story is . staff hgad had pay cuts in previous years , and then endured no annual pay rises at all , and suffered huge superannuation losses along with other superfunds across australia , and now they are getting 6% per annum for the next 3 years . ,
Sooooooooooooooooo !!!!!! HOW MUCH DOES THAT EQUATE TOO OVER THE LAST say 7 years in the form of annual percentage increases ????

MY BET is that some of the people bagging this announcement , may have gotten 2% pa or less and still be better off than holden employees in the form of pay rises ....
AS I SAY . if holden cannot pay sustainable wages and sustain the manufaqcturing industry because govts sell us out to overseas companies and third world suppliers . than shut the doors ?
( PUT UP OR SHUT UP !!!! )

either way....holden still commands top spot in aus sales and still goes and askes for gov money..while still at the same time either (giving big payrises in the near future/not paying enough in the past while still in a commanding possition). SORRY HOLDEN...EXPLANATIONS FOR DODGY HANDOUTS AND CLEARLY STUPID DESCISIONS....you cant have both...you either are the best or you need help....disgusting and guilty until proven otherwise

[Franco Cozzo]

Some of the guys at my work have been with the company since it started and they haven't even seen CPI increases. We'd be stoked with 18-22%.

[Joe5619]

I dont like this term "hand out"!! Holden must co-invest with every dollar the government gives them. Most times Holden is investing more than 1 to 1.. Also, Ford & Toyota are getting dollars from the government too...

[Angeldust]

wow, it amazes me the attitude of some in here towards a fair pay for everyone.

honestly, whats the incentive at all in living in australia, when your chosen prefession leads to nothing but a struggle to pay the fking bills and not much else.

[BHDOGS]

If Holden workers are struggling on 50 grand a year then on my wages they'd already be in the grave

[Barry_v]

Those damned greedy blue collar workers, they caused this GFC! Lets occupy Elizabeth to protest against factory worker greed!


Seriously though, you guys are kind of being jerks about this. Many of them were on severely reduced hours during the rough patch, forcing them to find part time work to make ends meet.

[BHDOGS]

As opposed to the corporate fat cats of other industry's that were rolling in money during the gfc that don't receive tax payer assistance and government guarantees of a job through our tax dollars

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Barry_v

Seriously though, you guys are kind of being jerks about this. Many of them were on severely reduced hours during the rough patch, forcing them to find part time work to make ends meet.

Originally Posted by Angeldust

wow, it amazes me the attitude of some in here towards a fair pay for everyone.

I think the overwhelming majority in here really do feel for the workers - we have watched the whole thing unravel over the past few years and have a good grip on the recent history.

Aside from a very few, all I am reading is peoples distaste for the way Holden are going about their business - certainly not that our brothers and sisters are finally getting a step closer to what they used to earn!

Read with both eyes guys.

[Brazen]

3% increase per year plus productivity payments if quality/marketshare/profitability incresae.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/158866/h...oyee-pay-deal/

By Tim Beissmann | February 14th, 2012 Print page 9 Download Brochure



The boss of Holden says the company’s proposed pay raise deal for more than 3000 manufacturing and engineering employees is a step towards ensuring the viability of its local manufacturing operations into the future.

Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux insisted the three-pronged pay raise agreement was part of a long-term vision that extended beyond 2020, flying in the face of recent speculation about the decline of the local automotive industry.

“We’ve been talking about that for the last year or so of my time here: ‘How do we secure the long-term future for this industry?’ This deal actually goes a long way towards doing that by aligning everybody to have the most efficient and productive use of each hour of labour and how many hours of labour we apply to vehicles, how we make those vehicles, how great they are, the quality of those vehicles, and then how the marketplace reacts to our products in terms of market share.”

Under Holden’s proposed pay deal, employees will benefit from annual percentage increases, one-off payments and, potentially, further increases depending on the company’s performance.



Holden executive director human resources Mark Polglaze explained workers would receive base pay increases of three per cent per year for the three years of the deal.

The second component includes a series of one-off payments through the life of the agreement, which Polglaze said were designed to “recognise the hardship that our employees experienced through the global financial crisis”. He explained many Holden employees endured a 25 to 43 per cent reduction in their pay – largely on a voluntary basis – over the final 18 months of the previous agreement, which ran from 2008 to November 2011. The one-off payments are understood to be in excess of $1000 each.

Polglaze explained the additional variable pay component could see employees earn up to a two per cent pay increase dependant on “the achievement of company metrics”, which include Holden’s financial performances and productivity increases made at the plant.

Employees will vote on the deal before the end of this month and, if they agree to the terms, the new agreement should be finalised by mid March.



Devereux described the proposed agreement as a “fairly innovative deal” rewarding past hardship and future creativity and productivity.

“When we win on those items, we pay the workers more money. When we don’t win … we don’t pay the workers more money,” Devereux said.

“The whole team is being measured exactly the same way from the factory floor all the way up to the executive suite and it’s a pretty egalitarian approach to compensation.”

Devereux insisted Holden’s viability and success needed to be plotted not just for the period of this agreement, but into the next decade.

“This is a very intelligently crafted deal that actually rewards the workers at Holden for the success of the company, but that also protects our structural costs by not having that increase forever at fixed rates that are not what we would want them to be.”



Australian Manufacturing Workers’ Union (AMWU) national secretary Dave Oliver described the proposed agreement as a “reasonable deal”.

“Three per cent per annum is in line with what we’re getting around the traps,” Oliver said.

“The extra payments in there in regards to the hardship bonuses … they will go a fair way to compensating the workers who, in a lot of cases, took a 40 per cent reduction in their take-home pay, but it won’t totally renumerate them to that.”

While he said the AMWU was recommending Holden employees agree to the terms of the proposed deal, Oliver said it was not yet confirmed that the majority would support it.

“These workers have done it tough over the last few years and even though it’s a reasonable deal it’s not going to fully compensate them for the pain they’ve had. They’ll make the decision.”



Oliver said the impending announcement of a multi-million-dollar co-investment deal between Holden and the state and federal governments – due within 60 days – would give a clearer indication of how likely employees are to benefit from the performance-dependant variable pay component of the deal.

“What’s important is that we’re able to attract the investment that’s required to keep making Holden cars in this country.

“That’s why we’ve been calling on both sides of politics … that they will continue to provide assistance and support to this very important industry that employs over 200,000 workers in this country both directly and indirectly.”

The news comes less than two weeks after Holden confirmed more than 100 casual and temporary workers would be cut from its vehicle assembly plant in Elizabeth, South Australia, due to continued tough economic conditions.

The Holden deal also follows a hard-fought pay increase for Toyota Australia manufacturing workers in October last year, which involved protracted negotiations and six weeks of industrial action.

The Toyota workforce finally settled on a 13 per cent pay increase over 42 months. Three months later, 350 jobs were axed from the Altona assembly plant, which Toyota Australia also blamed on the high Australian dollar and difficult market conditions.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

The lowest rate (non apprentice) is currently N21 classification which was $930 per week as of 15 Nov 2010 (probably now 3% higher), this is for vehicle assemblers. For non trade employees (non supervisory etc), it goes up to N33 classification, which was $1093 per week as of Nov. 2010

N21 $930.10
N22 $954.00
N23 $977.60
N31 $1,025.80
N32 $1,031.40
N33 $1,093.10

N33's are your die setters, control room operators, qa audit etc etc.

Ford's die setters are on $983.40 a week, leading hands are $40-$50 a week more.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

The lowest rate (non apprentice) is currently N21 classification which was $930 per week as of 15 Nov 2010 (probably now 3% higher), this is for vehicle assemblers. For non trade employees (non supervisory etc), it goes up to N33 classification, which was $1093 per week as of Nov. 2010

N21 $930.10
N22 $954.00
N23 $977.60
N31 $1,025.80
N32 $1,031.40
N33 $1,093.10

N33's are your die setters, control room operators, qa audit etc etc.

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Ford's die setters are on $983.40 a week, leading hands are $40-$50 a week more.

if these are the abysmal rates that people on here say the poor workers are on, then quite frankly there are many on here that need a reality check with the real world. just because figures get released saying average incomes are around $60k, doesn't mean most people are on that coin. it just means the fat cats are getting richer and dragging the average up.

there are plenty of people that would love to be on $1000/week + benefits.

there are plenty of people that would love to get a % increase every year as cpi increases.

the fact is, it doesn't happen. there's also plenty of people other than holden workers that were affected by GFC. some didn't have to work on half pay or reduced hours, they just lost their job. i guess that isn't as bad!!

as for anti unions - there was an article in the australian a bit back that highlights just how much the unions have got holden over a barrel. laying off the workers is probably costing them a whole lot more than this proposed payrise, let me tell you. not many view unions from the point of view of the employer, only the employee.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

If i'd taken a voluntary pay cut during the GFC on the proviso that when the economic situation got better, i'd go back to normal wages, then i'd expect to eventually get a pay rise too...

how big was the paycut?

[Kryton]

If it wasnt for Unions, youd be getting $8hr, no sick leave, no annual leave, no breaks, no OHS - nothing.