The BS of petrol pricing

[BLUEYBA]

Originally Posted by minheim

When petrol prices jump you are seeing the discount through competition disappearing and the price returning to the top of the price cycle. It is not a move up from where it would/should be but rather a return to where it would be but for stronger competition pressures.

As for a fixed price, that would see prices set at a higher average price than a cycle produces.

Unfortuneately, Oil is in demand world-wide and is demand is only growing as standards of living rise in many countries (particularly China and India). On top of that the Middle East is unstable and older fields are being drained.

If there was any easy solution one of the political parties would have jumped on it.

Do you realise they recently found huge reserves of oil. Its not in the middle east but in Africa

[BLUEYBA]

Originally Posted by Scotty85

Now why would the government care about reducing the price of a product they get a massive excise % for & that everyone has to buy? I can hear the pollies laughing already...

Now dont get me wrong, I despise it just as much as any other motorist. But we have a snowflakes chance in Darwin of Govco doing anything about it.

Its not just the excise they get. The excise stays the same no matter what the price. The thing the government likes about the fuel going up is the GST. If fuel prices go up their GST revenue rises and thats why they do nothing about the prices. Remember the GST is a tax on a tax when it comes to fuel

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

People automatically, and wrongly, continually blame the oil companies. It's a tired old poorly thought out mantra of fools. It's not the oil companies, it's Coles & Woollies who dictate the petrol prices now.

It's the consumer's fault. They continually support the duopoly. They go & buy the milk at $1 per litre, and it's paid for at the petrol pump. If you think the supermarkets are going to take a profit drop on cheap milk to get you in the door then you are mistaken. They cover the deficit at the petrol pump.

The farmers suffer, the motorists suffer, and for some reason, idiot consumers can't put this simple puzzle together. Much easier to not worry about it while you buy cheap beer as well.

Coles & Woolies have been ripping off producers and consumers for years. They have more sway and more union employees than the oll companies put together. They are the ones that the government lacks the fortitude to tackle.

While I absolutely agree with your rant against the Coles/Woolworths duopoly dominating our spending, your first paragraph is not entirely correct.

The prices I quoted in my OP were not from any Woolworths/Caltex/Shell, but from a local BP. So you see, blaming oil companies is not in itself "a tired old poorly thought out mantra of fools".

Cheers, mate.

[TMC]

Well for what it's worth I don't support or shop at Coles or Woolies and I don't use there servos or even Caltex or Shell unless I absolutely have too. I realise though that this lot controls a huge part of the Australian economy.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

At the end of the day the Government won't do a thing to regulate fuel prices - why? Because the Oil Companies are more powerful than any single Government, let alone the Government of this country.

Try to impose any meaningful legislation that might actually improve the situation and they will just pack up and leave, cutting supply off.

The Govt could then nationalise the oil industry, pouring Billions into it - but having to raise taxes to do so; likely effect we'd end up with more expensive fuel. (Anyway I'm not sure we'd have enough oil for our own needs)

nationalizing doesn't actually cost. it's just taking back all oil assets from private companies....

oh wait...it could cost your democratically elected government ala iran/mossadegh....

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

nationalizing doesn't actually cost. it's just taking back all oil assets from private companies....

oh wait...it could cost your democratically elected government ala iran/mossadegh....

WTF. Nationalising anything normally costs alot more once the governments get their hands on an industry, and i can only assume that any industry that fell into the hands of the Gillard government would start costing 3 x alot more.

Plus what could australia actually nationalise. We own lots of petrol stations, we own 5 or 6 refineries, and we own approx 25% of the oil we use (and when i say own, i mean what the government could actually take ownership off).

Last I checked, I think the majority of the owners of the oil refineries in australia would be more than happy to give the australian government ownership (they simply cant compete with the huge refineries in Asia). Owning 25% of the oil we use would not give the government any chance of lowering prices, as australian fields are high cost in comparison to imports.

So it comes down to the retaling side of things. What profit do retailers make. When you look at the Tapis price of oil at the moment (circa $128 a barrel) or about 85 cents per litre if it was 100% converted to petrol. Add to that the roughly 50 cents a litre you pay in taxes (excise and gst). So from $1.35 per litre as a base price, you then have to add refining costs, all transport costs (it costs alot to own oil tankers, and a fleet of petrol tankers), storage cost, insurances, and retailing costs and margins. Anyone who is getting sub $1.50 petrol these days should count themselves lucky.

I think what you really want, is the government to nationalise one of the biggest components that influence petrol prices, and that being taxes. I've got news for you!!!

[csv8]

WHY cann't something be done about petrol prices ??? an increase of 18cl overnight needs investigating..Surely,they are making a profit on $141.9 ??? and don't trot out they usual lame ,pathetic excuse, "lack of competition"..aussies motorists are well and truly being ripped off, car prices, petrol and servicing costs are out of control...
Like · · 18 hours ago
RACQ (Official) Hey Chris, our analysts say retailers are making a small profit margin on the the price of fuel at the moment. We're constantly pushing for better scrutiny by the ACCC when it comes to fuel prices and will continue to in the future. Unfortunately, the consumer watchdog investigated our claims
About unusually high fuel prices last year and found nothing out of the ordinary. The best way to beat high prices is to shop around and show loyalty to the servos that discount. That will help push prices down. For fuel prices in your area visit www.racq.com/fuel
18 hours ago via Mobile · Like

[martyal44]

And Swan and Gillard don't seem to care, what about the carbon tax it's all a bit quiet isn't it? It was said that at least under K. Rudd petrol prices stayed down.
The spikes in the price, not knowing the cheapest day of the week and the ~17 c/L difference from 91 ethanol to 95 non ethanol are among my biggest gripes.

[Charliewool]

It's not just the Coles and Woolies ripping us...
Beware the new kid on the block.. Jap owned 7-11 is the one looking to monopolise fuel in Australia?
Anyone noticed lately how many servos are now flying their colours?

[Ibo]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

It's not just the Coles and Woolies ripping us...
Beware the new kid on the block.. Jap owned 7-11 is the one looking to monopolise fuel in Australia?
Anyone noticed lately how many servos are now flying their colours?

They have basicaly bought out all the MOBIL and a few BP's in south east QLD.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by csv8

WHY cann't something be done about petrol prices ??? an increase of 18cl overnight needs investigating..Surely,they are making a profit on $141.9 ???

do you understand how a discount cycle works? its been happening in australia for many many years now. there's a good chance they aren't making too much profit (if any) at the low price.

read bobthebilda's post.

what do you think will happen when carbon tax comes in. sure, they say it won't be on fuel, but what about the transport companies that transport it etc.

i shop at woolies. its the closest to me and generally the cheapest. i fill with bp ultimate and rarely look at the price. life goes on.

[TMC]

When the word "retailers" is used here are we talking service stations? If so, many don't make any money from the fuel. They are just paid to remain open and cover costs from the parent oil company that owns them. The oil companies are vertically integrated with the servos. It does make you wonder why different servos have different prices within one brand though. Except for the fact that the company knows it can make a bit more profit here, less profit there etc etc.

[TheSneakiness]

Want a good indication of price gouging by Coles and Woolies???

Cue Mains Road at Sunnybank, QLD.

There is a Woolies and Coles servo within 30 seconds of each other near Beenleigh Road and they were charging $1.59 a litre for 91RON. Diesel was cheaper at the Woolies at $1.52 where Coles was $1.55.

One kilometre up the road heading towards Sunnybank Shopping Centre there is a BP. 91RON was $1.46 and diesel $1.49.

Don't anyone tell me Woolies and Coles is not dictating how much YOU spend at the bowser.

[mytgxl]

Originally Posted by GT 160

Paid $1.78 for premium at my local BP yesterday. My backside is still sore

You own a 335 GT & your worried about petrol WTF You can always buy a 4 cylinder!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Want a good indication of price gouging by Coles and Woolies???

Cue Mains Road at Sunnybank, QLD.

There is a Woolies and Coles servo within 30 seconds of each other near Beenleigh Road and they were charging $1.59 a litre for 91RON. Diesel was cheaper at the Woolies at $1.52 where Coles was $1.55.

One kilometre up the road heading towards Sunnybank Shopping Centre there is a BP. 91RON was $1.46 and diesel $1.49.

Don't anyone tell me Woolies and Coles is not dictating how much YOU spend at the bowser.

one location doesn't prove anything. there is a caltex woolies at hilcrest/browns plains (johnson rd i think) that is consistently the cheapest in the area!

they don't actually force anyone to use their stations. if it is cheaper up the road, then fill there. not rocket science.

[music189]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

It's not just the Coles and Woolies ripping us...
Beware the new kid on the block.. Jap owned 7-11 is the one looking to monopolise fuel in Australia?
Anyone noticed lately how many servos are now flying their colours?

Yes we are going to get done over even moreso, big time

How does everyone think coles and woolies afford to give 20 cpl discount vouchers?? they jack the price up when they offer the big discounts to cover costs, simple buisness
My latest voucher for 20 cents of expires on May 3rd so they are covering costs till then at least!

My beef is how come when the Iraq war was on crude oil was at $170 @ barrel and the Aus dollar was 80c to the US dollar we paid $1.60 litre, now the price of a barrel is $103 and Aus dollar is $1.03 we are now paying the same price at the pump! wth

[Miss_XR6]

I will never understand how the companies work to define what we should pay when the barrel of oil is sometimes so low
I know there is a 3 month delay but sometimes its like WTF

I own a v8 and wont change that I am currently paying $1.78 for 98 and filling my tank goes to above the $100 price tag but I am not going to go out and buy a barina or something to save on fuel...
Petrol is going to hit the $2 tag in the near future

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by prydey

one location doesn't prove anything. there is a caltex woolies at hilcrest/browns plains (johnson rd i think) that is consistently the cheapest in the area!

they don't actually force anyone to use their stations. if it is cheaper up the road, then fill there. not rocket science.

Ok, be that as it may, how about you do some looking out as well and prove to me that they do not price gouge.

I do know of the Woolies you mention as well and they are also fairly consistant with other Woolies Caltex outlets in the area.

[Mr Hardware]

Vote for Pedro

[xisled]

Everyone should stop complaining. I find it funny when people complain about petrol prices. Nothing we can do about it, just have to pay what they charge.

If you do not like it, ride a bike or walk instead of driving.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Ok, be that as it may, how about you do some looking out as well and prove to me that they do not price gouge.

I do know of the Woolies you mention as well and they are also fairly consistant with other Woolies Caltex outlets in the area.

i have better things to do than go around looking at service station prices. i pass every major brand on my journey to work and back and they are always around the same price. their low and high prices are pretty much the same.

what confuses some people is the fact that all servo's don't run on the same discount cycle. this means that some servo's transition on a monday, some on a tuesday, some on a wednesday etc etc, which is why you may see 2 servo's in close proximity with fairly different pricing. they are just at different points in their discount cycle.

[bobthebilda]

music189]Yes we are going to get done over even moreso, big time

How does everyone think coles and woolies afford to give 20 cpl discount vouchers?? they jack the price up when they offer the big discounts to cover costs, simple buisness
My latest voucher for 20 cents of expires on May 3rd so they are covering costs till then at least!

There has been no proof that coles and woolies jack up prices to allow them bigger discounts. They are more than likely following the accepted practice of using the supermarket side of things to subsidise the petrol side of things, with the hope of squeezing out the smaller operators to one day allow them to jack up the prices. Most families (and I say most, not all), spend around $200 a week at the supermarkets and only $40 a week on petrol. All it takes is a 2% increase in food prices to offset a 10% reduction in petrol prices (which is much more than the profit margin for alot of petrol stations).

My beef is how come when the Iraq war was on crude oil was at $170 @ barrel and the Aus dollar was 80c to the US dollar we paid $1.60 litre, now the price of a barrel is $103 and Aus dollar is $1.03 we are now paying the same price at the pump! wth

Theres a few inaccuracies in that statement to come to your conclusion. As far as I recollect, when petrol prices hit above $1.60 per litre in 2008, the WTI oil price was $148 per barrel. Australian sourced oil (petrol)is priced on Tapis oil (which I am not sure what it was in 2008), but now Tapis is at about $128 australian dollars. Around early 2008 to august 2008 the australian dollar was approx. 85 to 95 US cents. On basic fundamentals (taking currency, and oil prices into account), Petrol prices should be lower than 2008 (by i estimate 15 cents per litre), but taking other factors into account ie the guy steering the fuel tanker (and his crew) is now getting paid 15% more than 2008, the truck driver delivering the fuel is probably getting paid 12% more than 2008, the register lady behind the counter is probably getting paid 12% more than 2008, and I am assuming the insurance, electricity, registration etc etc that all these businesses pay, have gone up more than 25% since 2008. Then it all fits in neatly to the $1.53 per litre i see now, to the $1.60 plus per litre i was seeing in 2008.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Theres a few inaccuracies in that statement to come to your conclusion. As far as I recollect, when petrol prices hit above $1.60 per litre in 2008, the WTI oil price was $148 per barrel. Australian sourced oil (petrol)is priced on Tapis oil (which I am not sure what it was in 2008), but now Tapis is at about $128 australian dollars. Around early 2008 to august 2008 the australian dollar was approx. 85 to 95 US cents. On basic fundamentals (taking currency, and oil prices into account), Petrol prices should be lower than 2008 (by i estimate 15 cents per litre), but taking other factors into account ie the guy steering the fuel tanker (and his crew) is now getting paid 15% more than 2008, the truck driver delivering the fuel is probably getting paid 12% more than 2008, the register lady behind the counter is probably getting paid 12% more than 2008, and I am assuming the insurance, electricity, registration etc etc that all these businesses pay, have gone up more than 25% since 2008. Then it all fits in neatly to the $1.53 per litre i see now, to the $1.60 plus per litre i was seeing in 2008.

no no no, there is a conspiracy theory, i know there is.

[csv8]

From Wikipedia Australia
The first 7-Eleven in Australia opened on August 24, 1977 in the Melbourne suburb of Oakleigh. There are currently 565 stores in the states of Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland; the majority of stores are in metropolitan areas, particularly in CBD areas. Stores in suburban areas often operate as petrol stations. Stores are owned and operated as franchises, with a central administration.
7-Eleven stores sell gift cards including three types of prepaid VISA cards. There are daily newspapers, drinks, confectionery, and snack foods. They sell pre-prepared food such as sandwiches, wraps, pies, sausage rolls under their proprietary brand 'munch' delivered fresh into stores daily.
7-Eleven stores have partnered with BankWest and have BankWest ATMs in all of their stores.[17]
Every year on 7 November, one small cup of free Slurpee is given to each customer in honor to Seven Eleven Day. (November is the 11th month which makes it 7/11)[18]
In March 2010, the company ran a promotion where every customer purchasing fuel received a free small Slurpee.
7-Eleven has acquired 295 Mobil service stations in New South Wales, Queensland, South Australia and Victoria that were originally planned for sale to Caltex. Twenty-nine sites in South Australia were subsequently on sold to Peregrine Corporation, to be badged as On the Run convenience stores.[19][20]
[

[Miss_XR6]

^^^ 7-11 won those old mobile stores as they paid more than what caltex offered known fact

[music189]

Originally Posted by Miss_XR6

^^^ 7-11 won those old mobile stores as they paid more than what caltex offered known fact

I thought the ACCC or government blocked the sale to Caltex due to competion laws but I stand to be corrected

[music189]

[QUOTE=bobthebilda]There has been no proof that coles and woolies jack up prices to allow them bigger discounts. They are more than likely following the accepted practice of using the supermarket side of things to subsidise the petrol side of things, with the hope of squeezing out the smaller operators to one day allow them to jack up the prices. Most families (and I say most, not all), spend around $200 a week at the supermarkets and only $40 a week on petrol. All it takes is a 2% increase in food prices to offset a 10% reduction in petrol prices (which is much more than the profit margin for alot of petrol stations).



No proof the ACCC or petrol commisioner could find thosefuel and supermarket figures are a bit low I reckon I ll swap for those any day

[Miss_XR6]

Originally Posted by music189

I thought the ACCC or government blocked the sale to Caltex due to competion laws but I stand to be corrected

That was added in it too but a bit of the sale to 7-11 was due to the cost

The only thing I feel sorry for was alot of the mobil servo's had mechanics attached which are now out of business

[MS33LU]

The terminal price has gone down .8c in the last two days (shell website).
Price has gone up 15c.
Coles\Woolies own most of Shell, Caltex sites.
Using their monopoly to set the price???????

[joolz]

I dont get these excessive prices where the Tapis price now is about the same price it was in May 2011 yet petrol prices are around 30cpl more.. Its also dropped around $8 a barrel since mid March...

See link below (Tapis Crude)

http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/APCRTAPI:IND