Future Ford large car, SUV linked with 2014 Mondeo under One Ford plan

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Doesn't necessarily suggest FWD...


Further more, it doesn't really tell us much that we didn't already know. The falcon is going to be integrated with global products, the article is nothing more then a rehash of previous knowledge, but with the wording "LWB C/D platform" worked into it.

The article also openly states that there is room for a drive shaft, now this is confirms AWD, but could hint at possible RWD development. The rear suspension can accommodate the mechanical needed, the only change (if any) would be in the engine bay...and if you are going to do a LWB version of the platform, you could change the front for a Nor/south arrangement...particularly if the Mustang is going to share global design, parts and engineering.

...and the artical assumes the come 2016, the falcon is dead...even though there is a update, in 2014...

Maybe you should have read the article, they clearly state its not designed for RWD.




“We haven’t designed (the C/D platform) for a RWD configuration,” Mr Pintar admitted.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Maybe you should have read the article, they clearly state its not designed for RWD.




“We haven’t designed (the C/D platform) for a RWD configuration,” Mr Pintar admitted.

With respect, you just can't lengthen a Mondeo, calll it a large car and say you're done,
it needs to be wider and have a lot of regional considerations in the design too.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by jpd80

With respect, you just can't lengthen a Mondeo, calll it a large car and say you're done,
it needs to be wider and have a lot of regional considerations in the design too.

And in the very same artical...he talks of "Room for a drive shaft, and the rear suspention unit..."

The FG falcon was never designed with a 4cyl in mind...nore was the BA with AWD...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nikked

And in the very same artical...he talks of "Room for a drive shaft, and the rear suspention unit..."

The FG falcon was never designed with a 4cyl in mind...nore was the BA with AWD...

This is only an opinion:

I have this gut feeling that Ford NA has has looked at FoA's Falcon business case/needs and their
own Taurus/MKS business case/needs put them side by side and has cliniced the potentials of both.
Maybe they are looking at a cost effective way of having both without destroying budgets and scales of economy.
Evolving a regional project in the same direction as global platforms make sense but how far does that have to be?

The Americans are clearly in no hurry to kill off the Falcon, that's has to be a good sign for now...

[MonsterFG T6]

I'm not sure about new Mondeo (havent read anything about it) but Taurus is available as AWD right now in STO version so in my opinion the quetion would be what Ford would do. I quiet like the idea of Mondeo being transformed into either AWD or RWD since I have seen the car land here in Aus I was thinking why they havent done that allready (Ecoboost engine has potential and it is powering the Falcon without embarasing the Ford name). What i fear is Americans are so stuborn and if they try to pursue what they think is best for us in Aus then we gonna end up with the FWD Taurus and read XR6 being AWD. Hopefully Ford Australia convince the numbheads in USA that Taurus as AWD will be a flop like the one before not so long ago as I say to everyone moment Falcon(or whatever name they use) becomes FWD I'm leaving blue oval unless they provide worthy successor to XR6T..

[csv8]

Mondeo - Ford Australia Forums
A LWB version of the Ford Mondeo caught in China recently. Although it's fairly common to make LWB versions of almost anything for the Chinese market and it's ...

[Road_Warrior]

That LWB Mondeo has been getting made in China for years and the reference is 4-5 years old. As I said earlier, expect the next gen Toreass to be wider, not longer than the Mondeo/Fusion.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

That LWB Mondeo has been getting made in China for years and the reference is 4-5 years old. As I said earlier, expect the next gen Toreass to be wider, not longer than the Mondeo/Fusion.

And it was modified post production line for livery companies (Chauffeur)

[MonsterFG T6]

Well mondeo with AWD option would be better proposition than A that tankTaurus, thats what I think anyway but still I cant believe Ford missed the boat on developing the FG as righthand drive (apparently they had to stop due to cost), they would rock the europians out of their comfort zone at least Holden gave it a try thru Vauxal.

[Road_Warrior]

$80 Million.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by MonsterFG T6

Well mondeo with AWD option would be better proposition than A that tankTaurus,

Next gen Taurus due this time in 2015 is rumored to be based on a larger version of the Fusion/Mondeo and will be losing significant weight.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I am not a Ford employee. Knowledge was probably the wrong term, more like an understanding of what the future could hold based on snippets seen (and provided) here and there. Some in the public domain, some not. However most of this information is in the public domain, just that you need to take the (considerable) time to research and piece the bits together. Case in point being the relationship the next gen Taurus has with the new Mondeo platform, it's all out there, you just have to find it and understand what is being said.!

Yep fair enough, I'm in the same boat though I'm sure you've done more research than I have. But as you said, it all comes down to understanding what you're reading but I think some let their hope for the continuation of a RWD Falcon cloud the logic thats right in front of them. (Not you, or anyone in particular that I can remember, just generally)

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

A few other things to note:

“We haven’t designed (the C/D platform) for a RWD configuration,” Mr Pintar admitted.

But then later he says:

“And we’re especially excited about (AWD). The rear suspension is something we are very proud of. There’s a nice spot for a driveshaft. When we built this platform for North America and Europe working together as the One Ford team it was configured that it was going to have AWD as well as FWD.”

One last thing:

According to Mr Pintar, the Mondeo/Fusion would be made in Belgium, USA, Mexico, Russia and China to begin with, while other locations might follow as more models and variants are introduced.

“(In the Mondeo/Fusion case) we’re building and producing where we will sell,” he said.

There's a lot of assumptions made by the author, with no basis other than "they have this, therefore it equals that" but Ford are notorious for being secretive about future planning. They wouldnd be tipping new development funds for an MCE in 2014 or to the facilities at Broadmeadows if the whole lot was going to be pulled merely 2 years later!

Clearly the platform is designed for AWD, hence the rear drive shaft allowance. But thats a no brainer anyway, AWD is popular in the states for driving in snow.

To me its quite clear the the Falcons replacement will be on this, or an evolution of this platform. So few care about the performance/RWD aspect of the Falcon, as reflected in its sales - why would Ford make any effort to retain those elements, if it means developing another orphan platform just for us? Sharing its platform with the next Mustang might be an outside chance, but a long shot IMO because again, no one really cares about large RWD performance sedans. And if the Mustang itself is going global, then the performance market is catered for right there. Thats all just my opinion, my prediction. If I turn out to be wrong, well... good!

As for local manufacturing, I really dont know about that one, but it does seem quite possible that it'll continue going by whats been said by yourself and others on here. Maybe they could build the Ranger here?

Originally Posted by jpd80

Funny how the media can turn a joyful launch of new Mondeo into dark connotations for FoA and Falcon

See I dont think it was a negative article, or that the prospect of the next Falcon going FWD/AWD is a negative either. It'll bring the Australian large car up to speed with the rest of the world in terms of technology and refinement. It'll be boring as hell for the enthusiast, but for the wider market it will be more appealing. Hopefully we'll have the Mustang as well anyway.

Originally Posted by Nikked

Doesn't necessarily suggest FWD...


Further more, it doesn't really tell us much that we didn't already know. The falcon is going to be integrated with global products, the article is nothing more then a rehash of previous knowledge, but with the wording "LWB C/D platform" worked into it.

The article also openly states that there is room for a drive shaft, now this is confirms AWD, but could hint at possible RWD development. The rear suspension can accommodate the mechanical needed, the only change (if any) would be in the engine bay...and if you are going to do a LWB version of the platform, you could change the front for a Nor/south arrangement...particularly if the Mustang is going to share global design, parts and engineering.

...and the artical assumes the come 2016, the falcon is dead...even though there is a update, in 2014...

I think you're drawing a long bow on that one. It does strongly suggest FWD/AWD. To go RWD from that platform... cant see it happening. Surely the next global Mustang will have its own unique platform?

But I wouldn't be surprised to see the current gen Falcon live on till 2018 or so either. Every other generation has run for about 10 years, and I'm sure the 2014 update will have more than 2 years in it.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Nikked

And in the very same artical...he talks of "Room for a drive shaft, and the rear suspention unit..."

The FG falcon was never designed with a 4cyl in mind...nore was the BA with AWD...

But you can't just take a east/west design and turn it into a north/south without basically ripping up the whole front end and starting again. The whole crash structure would be compromised.

Clearly it was designed for a drive shaft so it can be AWD. The new Fusion already has an AWD version.

[Road_Warrior]

FFS.

Its fanciful to expect the CD4/Mondeo/Fusion platform to be able to support a RWD biased car. CD4 is designed for mass market FWD first and foremost and AWD second. A RWD car from that lot isnt going to happen.

What can happen however is the CD4's systems, subassemblies and chassis components can be "borrowed"for the 2014 Falcon or even an evolution of that for 2016...the big dollar engineering, testing and development cost comes from the things you dont see...if FoA dips into the CD4 parts bin to find those bits and pieces instead of doing the work itself, it could bring quite a car to the table instead of going it alone and being "almost there" but not.

[FPV]

All Goauto seem to have uncovered is the next Taurus/Explorer combo..............vehicles that we know would most likely move to a CD4 derivative platform and are supposedly not even earmarked for RHD design in the forthcoming generation.

We have hints that the 2014 Falcon is going to be a lot more than what was announced at the start of the year (More than efficiency improvements), would they invest that much into a platform that will end 2 years after that?

Think we appear to be going around in circles...

[Flat Top]

very interesting, timing seems about right, dollars turning,(except now everyone wants to buy $AUD ??) Thailand short of parts (according to letter i got from Ford about my ranger being delayed again!!)

[turboxf]

There is still the question of the MUSTANG /FALCON rwd, ford said the mustang will be RWD have RHD for international markets, 2 years ago there was speculation that FALCON & MUSTANG to be close too one another ??????

Ford OZ even exported a few FG falcons to FORD HQ for evaluation they were even spotted driving on SNOW !!!! maybe they had the LINCOLN AWD system for the snow job !!!!

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by Flat Top

very interesting, timing seems about right, dollars turning,(except now everyone wants to buy $AUD ??) Thailand short of parts (according to letter i got from Ford about my ranger being delayed again!!)

German manufacturing are starting to come here by the boat load, yes interesting time indeed ???????????

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

FFS.

Its fanciful to expect the CD4/Mondeo/Fusion platform to be able to support a RWD biased car. CD4 is designed for mass market FWD first and foremost and AWD second. A RWD car from that lot isnt going to happen.

What can happen however is the CD4's systems, subassemblies and chassis components can be "borrowed"for the 2014 Falcon or even an evolution of that for 2016...the big dollar engineering, testing and development cost comes from the things you dont see...if FoA dips into the CD4 parts bin to find those bits and pieces instead of doing the work itself, it could bring quite a car to the table instead of going it alone and being "almost there" but not.

Good post.
It comes down to a simple decision, does it cost less to switch to a global platform
or does it cost less to keep evolving a RWD Falcon that uses the global parts bin?

If you think about every area that decision touches on, the answer is not that simple
as the "does it cost less to..." takes a lot of analysis.....

[MonsterFG T6]

Originally Posted by turboxf

There is still the question of the MUSTANG /FALCON rwd, ford said the mustang will be RWD have RHD for international markets, 2 years ago there was speculation that FALCON & MUSTANG to be close too one another ??????

Ford OZ even exported a few FG falcons to FORD HQ for evaluation they were even spotted driving on SNOW !!!! maybe they had the LINCOLN AWD system for the snow job !!!!

Didnt know that fact but I did read that Mr Mulaly got G6E straight of the floor apparently as his personal car, why the ford doesnt drip feed info like every other manufacturer when comes to new car, this way we just go round and round.

[Polyal]

Falcons go to the US for testing that can be done quicker there than here.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Falcons go to the US for testing that can be done quicker there than here.

It can't be done here at all, they go there for very specific tests because the required facilities (for these specific tests) aren't available here.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by FPV

All Goauto seem to have uncovered is the next Taurus/Explorer combo..............vehicles that we know would most likely move to a CD4 derivative platform and are supposedly not even earmarked for RHD design in the forthcoming generation.

We have hints that the 2014 Falcon is going to be a lot more than what was announced at the start of the year (More than efficiency improvements), would they invest that much into a platform that will end 2 years after that?

Think we appear to be going around in circles...

This.

People need to realise that in subtle terms, FoA has told everyone that the 2014 update will be the best Falcon yet. More fuel efficient, more refined, more desirable.

It's more than likely that FoA's clever engineers have made a heinz 57 again out of the parts bin, with a local flavour, that makes business case of fitting in with other Ford product. Namely a RWD car with 4cyl, 6cyl, and 8cyl engines for RHD and LHD. Oh yeah.... the new Mustang.

[morak001]

With reference to post #30, would that footwell/firewall geometry allow enough flexibility for a different engine bay module with upper/lower wishbone suspension that would accommodate an engine with the correct alignment for rwd? more specifically a 4.0 which I think I remember was design protected for direct injection?

and, would such a mythical module be compatible with a new Mustang floorpan?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by morak001

With reference to post #30, would that footwell/firewall geometry allow enough flexibility for a different engine bay module with upper/lower wishbone suspension that would accommodate an engine with the correct alignment for rwd? more specifically a 4.0 which I think I remember was design protected for direct injection?

and, would such a mythical module be compatible with a new Mustang floorpan?

The issue with such an arrangement is that a longitudinal powertrain layout delivers torque loadings into the vehicle chassis in different areas and has different energy pathways in the event of a crash than a transverse powertrain layout. Consequently, the fundamentals of the frontal structure of the vehicle need to be different. It wouldnt be an insurmountable task to design one platform that does both, but you're talking serious coin to design it.

The floorpan design of the Mustang is a major headache for any sharing arrangement with a sedan because of the requirements the Mustang has for front and rear seat height, rear seat headroom and the track width at the rear axle. The best bet for the Falcon going forward is to share as much of the major sub-assemblies as possible (such as the entire front and rear suspension modules, EPAS system, electrics, HVAC and powertrains) with the Mustang to alleviate the development costs FoA would otherwise have to go it alone with. This alone could probably halve the development costs to Ford for an all new Falcon, or at the very least chop several hundred million from the overall project cost.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The best bet for the Falcon going forward is to share as much of the major sub-assemblies as possible (such as the entire front and rear suspension modules, EPAS system, electrics, HVAC and powertrains) with the Mustang to alleviate the development costs FoA would otherwise have to go it alone with.

Which is probably why Mustang is being brought up to snuff. Hell, Mustang going global was probably a bi-product of this.

Just more evidence of a Falcon/Mustang union.

[FPV GTHO]

Your kidding yourself Buntz if you think Ford NA is going to change Mustang to accommodate us. Mustang going global is the first step. Making it globally desirable is the bi-product. It will be up to Ford Aus to make anything work from those engineering modules.

[aquahead2001]

My bet is the media has it right, goodbye RWD Falcon, hello FWD Falcon/Mondeo/Taurus. The Mustang will stand alone as it's own platform for the simple reason that FOA has absolutely no ability to convince FMC of the need to keep the falcon RWD.

And with the way the Falcon (and for that matter large cars) are selling here, I doubt there will be any need for them to sell a large car here after 2016...