FPV GT-R spec vs HSV GTS - Page 2

StrikeTwiceXR6 · 24-12-2012, 05:36 PM

The GT without the R Spec tweeks will rape an HSV in every situation. THE END!

Edit: There is one thing that I am real tired of, and that is the delusional world that any VE SS or HSV owner lives in. The only debate that I think they will win is the sound war because they do sound good. But so does the blower whine of these supercharged beasts

nstg8a · 24-12-2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

your talking about a car from history now...not a knew car. plus how much it cost puts it way of this radar in reality

You did say ANY hsv...

prydey · 24-12-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T4ME

The FG is "just" behind still in chassis behaviour and suspension....only just.

i wonder how the HSV chassis would feel if it was putting out the same power?? its easy for a chassis to feel better when its got less power going to the ground.

just sayin

and for what its worth, i was saying earlier, that if the GTS is better, then it deserves any accolades it gets because the Rspec is a damn fine car. obviously i have only been in one of them so can't make a true comparison.

on the day that i got to have a ride, there was 20 of us in the group. everyone got to have at least one ride with many having a couple. the car was always at least 2up with passengers + driver, the circuit was about 2.5km and including some inner circuit twisties, the total lap was probably about 4km. the car did this at least 10 times and when speaking to the drivers they were very impressed and spoke highly of the cars ability to just keep going all day, with very little fade etc.

sorry for dribbling. since that day, whenever Rspec discussion comes up, i can't help myself.

Motorbreath310 · 24-12-2012, 05:51 PM

Ford had to supercharge their V8 and only got 10kw more than a GTS LOLOLOLOL!!!!

Seriously though I have wondered if the HSV's only seem more balanced due to their tamer delivery and lower peak power. Has anyone here driven a supercharged VE in anger?

40RDT · 24-12-2012, 05:53 PM

Would love to see a shootout between the R Spec and W427 in standing quarter mile and around a track. How fast does the R SPec cover the quarter mile in?

Motorbreath310 · 24-12-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Would love to see a shootout between the R Spec and W427 in standing quarter mile and around a track. How fast does the R SPec cover the quarter mile in?

Real world - low 12s. Against a W427, "just a few tenths behind" - MOTOR

Rodge · 24-12-2012, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrikeTwiceXR6

The GT without the R Spec tweeks will rape an HSV in every situation. THE END!

Sums it up perfectly Dan

Hardly even worthy of comparison at this point...let the fun begin if HSV bring out a SC VF though.

40RDT · 24-12-2012, 06:10 PM

So really the only HSV that would give the R Spec a challenge would be the HSV 427? Thats pretty impressive considering the R Spec is over 50k cheaper (when new)

StrikeTwiceXR6 · 24-12-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Sums it up perfectly Dan

Hardly even worthy of comparison at this point...let the fun begin if HSV bring out a SC VF though.

Thanks buddy! Enjoy your Christmas :-)

Rodge · 24-12-2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrikeTwiceXR6

Thanks buddy! Enjoy your Christmas :-)

You too buddy and don't forget those W427's have been on the dyno and recorded circa 290 rwkw's...you should be VERY afraid

StrikeTwiceXR6 · 24-12-2012, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

and don't forget those W427's have been on the dyno and recorded circa 290 rwkw's...you should be VERY afraid

Um yeah.........I think I might have that covered

gtfpv · 24-12-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrikeTwiceXR6

The GT without the R Spec tweeks will rape an HSV in every situation. THE END!

Edit: There is one thing that I am real tired of, and that is the delusional world that any VE SS or HSV owner lives in. The only debate that I think they will win is the sound war because they do sound good. But so does the blower whine of these supercharged beasts

gt > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFEFGC9cCtE

same driver , in SSV 6 LITRE V8 >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DgW9jrvFUA

blackf6 · 24-12-2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTpilot

coming from a turbo owner.

I own a GT too. And adding a supercharger to an engine would more than match the GTS cubic capacity. I just said it how I see it. I am not barracking for HSV.

GTP534 · 24-12-2012, 07:04 PM

HSV? - I just DON'T want one!

blackf6 · 24-12-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satria

much smaller engine though?

I am in no way taking away from the fact that the GT has a smaller capacity engine. But be serious it has a great big supercharger bolted on the top guy's of course it will decimate it.

nstg8a · 24-12-2012, 07:20 PM

Put a pump on any engine and it will make the numbers.

For a look at what could be coming, just check out tekno's supercharged black edition hsv.

Bigger pump, bigger engine, bigger numbers.

flooded one · 24-12-2012, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

gt > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFEFGC9cCtE

same driver , in SSV 6 LITRE V8 >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DgW9jrvFUA

that GT seemed brutal when he gave it a bit!! I want one!!

and don't worry i'll show him this thread lol

EVLKNEVL · 24-12-2012, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorbreath310

Ford had to supercharge their V8 and only got 10kw more than a GTS LOLOLOLOL!!!!

Hahah, if you believe the 335 badge

Motorbreath310 · 24-12-2012, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

Hahah, if you believe the 335 badge

A lot of people do go by the badge as a hard fact. Often on other forums, you see people saying a GT only has 10 kw more. Most of the time they think it's just a blown 5.4 BOSS engine too. If you asked most VE HSV owners for a dyno printout, they'd probably show you the plaque with a dyno chart in the engine bay that they all have.

I'd love a VE HSV, but sometimes I'm glad I bought the lesser-known alternative so as not to be associated with some of the drongos that buy these cars. I'll probably eat my words one day for buying one, but it must be known that some of these people (not the properly-informed enthusiasts) have mentalities similar to those of brain washed cult members.

Well, ahh...that escalated quickly. Back on topic.

Bent8 · 24-12-2012, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildrider

just wondering what do you think of this. I have a mate that's an absolute HSV nut. we were discussing HSV and FPVs the other day and he tells me the reason why you don't see a HSV GTS vs FPV GT-R spec comparison is because the GTS would flog it. I have too laugh .no disrespect to the HSV GTS. its is quick. but I haven't seen a stock GTS record 4.5 sec in a 0-100km/h time yet. his argument is you cant compare a GT-R spec to a GTS because the ford fans will think that's unfair. I have no idea what he means by it. anyone here reckon they know or know how a GTS would go against a GT-R spec?? in terms of performance of course not in what car has more gizmos etc.

Just explain to your friend how most modern cars lose about 20% of their power through the drivetrain. Flywheel horsies and rear wheel horsies.

Then tell your friend the GT makes the same horsepower at the rear wheels that the GTS makes at the engine!

I think he might get it then...

Adamz Ghia · 24-12-2012, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorbreath310

LOLOLOLOL!!!!

Seeing as LOL means 'Laughing Out Loud', does LOLOLOLOL mean Laughing Out Loud Out Loud Out Loud Out Loud...?

Numbers aren't the end game, may only be 10 more kw but it's how those kw (and nm) are delivered which really matters...

Motorbreath310 · 24-12-2012, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Seeing as LOL means 'Laughing Out Loud', does LOLOLOLOL mean Laughing Out Loud Out Loud Out Loud Out Loud...?

Numbers aren't the end game, may only be 10 more kw but it's how those kw (and nm) are delivered which really matters...

That original post was a tongue in cheek reference to how some people view the badge numbers. My apologies. I probably should have added quotation marks or a smiley of sorts.

And you're right. But when you consider that 335 = rwkw, and 325 = claimed flywheel output, then add forced induction and all the usable torque it brings with it, the picture then becomes very clear.

1TUFFUTE · 24-12-2012, 11:34 PM

exactly. It has almost nothing to do with badge numbers. Its ALL how the engine and driveline tech put the power to the ground. Thats why even tho a new F6 may feel crazy fast in the way it accelerates...a new GT would be easier for most to drive hard because of the linear way it makes its power. Much less brutal and a very efficient way to get power to the ground no matter what gear your in.

T4ME · 24-12-2012, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i wonder how the HSV chassis would feel if it was putting out the same power?? its easy for a chassis to feel better when its got less power going to the ground.

just sayin

and for what its worth, i was saying earlier, that if the GTS is better, then it deserves any accolades it gets because the Rspec is a damn fine car. obviously i have only been in one of them so can't make a true comparison.

on the day that i got to have a ride, there was 20 of us in the group. everyone got to have at least one ride with many having a couple. the car was always at least 2up with passengers + driver, the circuit was about 2.5km and including some inner circuit twisties, the total lap was probably about 4km. the car did this at least 10 times and when speaking to the drivers they were very impressed and spoke highly of the cars ability to just keep going all day, with very little fade etc.
sorry for dribbling. since that day, whenever Rspec discussion comes up, i can't help myself.

They(GTS) do tend to get some tramp at most power levels in manual but there are a few aids to minimise this quite easily.A R Spec with some Teins and cabin controller would make the car that bit more stable again....in fact perfect,I also believe Holden's tire compound used from the factory on the GTS is more superior to the R Spec.

6k on a R Spec and it would be well and truly a can of whoop bottom for the GTS in every scenario even on the GTS that has 6k thrown at it......which would I drive as is though...R Spec me baby.

When you start to modify the two and say chuck 6k at both the FG will be miles ahead still.6k and you have a tuned FG with killer suspension,basically Supercar performance where as the Holden has to start from scratch with a blower plan as money spent on it N/A to keep up would be herendous.6k on a GTS gets you a tune,cam/spring package and a exhaust,about 320rwkw but just no where near the torque.A proper 1900/2300 blower package etc for GTS will set you back around 13-14k+ doing some work yourself lol.

Haven't been in a 400rwkw FG s/c so cant compare to a 2300 equipped GTS's pull.The characteristic of the FG motor to keep pulling up high may well get it over the line though,the way the 5.0 keeps making power is unreal,doesn't want to sign off

mik · 24-12-2012, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorbreath310

Ford had to supercharge their V8 and only got 10kw more than a GTS LOLOLOLOL!!!!

Seriously though I have wondered if the HSV's only seem more balanced due to their tamer delivery and lower peak power. Has anyone here driven a supercharged VE in anger?

i`d say your on the money, personally i like the idea of the chassis being challenged by a power house of an engine at ten tenth`s.

Bossxr8 · 25-12-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockape

Hasnt the GT beaten the GTS around a track already?

Motor had both of them in a comparo a few years ago when the 5.0 GT was released and it was slightly quicker than the GTS on the track, the R spec would positively rape it by another second or 2 at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by teak81

I think the comparison is unfair based on the fact that the GT is supercharged and the GTS isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40RDT

So really the only HSV that would give the R Spec a challenge would be the HSV 427? Thats pretty impressive considering the R Spec is over 50k cheaper (when new)

R spec is more like $70,000 cheaper, you could just about buy 2 R Spec's for the price a WD40 was new.

1TUFFUTE · 25-12-2012, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Motor had both of them in a comparo a few years ago when the 5.0 GT was released and it was slightly quicker than the GTS on the track, the R spec would positively rape it by another second or 2 at least.

R spec is more like $70,000 cheaper, you could just about buy 2 R Spec's for the price a WD40 was new.

you could probably grab a wd40 for 70k now anyways with their depreciation

Rev28K · 25-12-2012, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

I love how people refer to circuit like its a set formula, what circuit Winton? Sandown? Phillip Island?

2/3 of those I'd back the R-Spec in every situation, Winton if anywhere would hide the HSV's lack of grunt and show off it chassis balance.

Ding Ding! Spot on the money. On a small twisty circuit my little N/A 1.8 litre FWD could match the big local's times. At Sandown and Phillip Island they could stretch their legs and run away and hide. I'd still beat them at braking and corner speed but they had too much power/capacity/speed on the straights.

Have a look at the latest Motor PCOTY (page 93). They ran it at Sydney Motorsport Park "long circuit". It looks like a twisty ***** of a track that didn't do the GT Rspec any favours. it came in behind a Ranault Megane RS 265 and the Chrysler 300c SRT8.

Winton times - I don't know if HSV used "cheaters" and I know that most of the FPV's were autos but these times aren't that good for the blue oval. The HSV's have almost always been quicker than the FPV's.
http://www.rexnet.com.au/forum/index...ton-lap-times/

STINKY NINJA · 25-12-2012, 10:26 PM

Why are people wasting their time talking of holdens(swearword) when there is beer to drink and yummy prawns and food to smash down

on this wonderful day called christmas

Merry christmas to all the ford guys/girls and holden lovers just crawl back under the rock you came out from...

Chopped · 25-12-2012, 10:43 PM

Sourced Motor Mag Performance Car Cup 2012 (Jan 2013 Edition)

Sydney Motorsport Park - Extended Long Circuit (Eastern Creek)

Lap Times >

Porsche 911 CS / 2:08.80sec
Mercedes SLS AMG Roadster / 2:11.10sec
Audi RS5 / 2:11.60sec
Porsche Boxster S / 2:12.10sec
Mercedes SLK AMG / 2:13.70sec
BMW M5 / 2:14.20sec
BMW M135i / 2:15.50sec
Mercdedes E63 AMG / 2:15.50sec
Audi S7 / 2:17.30sec
Chrysler 300 SRT8 / 2:18.40sec
Renault Megane RS265 / 2:18.50sec
Ford FPV GT RSPEC / 2:18.50sec
Ford Focus ST / 2:20.70sec
Subaru BRZ / 2:22.20sec
-----------------------------

Ford FPV GT RSPEC - Overall Rank 12th (out of 14)

0-100km/h / 4.67sec
80-120km/h / 2.63sec
400m / 12.75sec (182.46km/h)

Andrew Maclean - "For all its supposed track focus, it's an unwieldy beast"
Curt Dupriez - "Feels a generation too old. Not the Oz muscle car saviour I'd hoped for"
James Cleary - "Power down better, but still underdone on ergonomics and suspension tune"
Nathan Ponchard - "Better than expected, but deserves throttle-blips on downshifts"
Warren Luff - "It's certainly a slight improvement over the regular GT, you can feel the improvements that they've made, but it's still nose-heavy, it's a car that if you drive it into a corner hard, you've just got to stay off everything and let the front gather back. The brakes are a bit disappointing, but it's a big car - they lack feel"

HSV declined to submit a car !