is the falcon big enough to be a family car? - Page 2

**Dave R** · 27-01-2013, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well I recon a 2008 Mazda 3 with 80,000kms on it won't require a full suspension overhaul because of under engineering. Won't be a thirsty or as slow or as expensive.

There a few Territory die-hards with blinkers on, but the car buying public has woken up. People on here complain about Chinese build quality and engineering. Hard to support an industry that serves up ****.

Ford has corrected the ball joint issue with the new series. I probably wouldn't recommend an earlier build (ie, pre SZ) for this reason. The OP referenced $40k+ price tags, so he is talking about a new Territory, the suspension issue is irrelevant. I don't think the car buying public has "woken up", the Territory remains one of the best selling SUVs in the county.

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that the Mazda3 is not big enough for a family. And the Mazda not being as slow as a Territory? That's a good one. I have an FG XR6 Turbo to go fast in, all cars are slow in comparison and there'd be nothing in it between a Mazda3 and a Territory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

How many kms has your current model Terry done? Live with it for a couple of years and 200,000 kms and then tell us how good it has been. ................if they're so good how come you never see one as a taxi? Not all of us can afford to update our cars every 12-24 months so we have to go for the best value for money vehicle that will last and half a million taxi drivers can't be wrong when they drive Falcon wagons because of their reliability, economy and space.

Bushbasher

I reached 90 thousand before I traded it, the ball joints were done under warranty when it was serviced so no dramas were had by me. That said, I wouldn't want a used SX or SY for the ball joint flaw, as you point out. I'm talking about new cars as the OP mentioned $40k, the new models have had the ball joint flaw rectified.

I think the taxi point is a bit daft. If the average family did half a million kilometers running all day and all night treating the car like they stole it and only servicing it to keep it running then you might have a point as far as I'm concerned. And you don't see SUVs as taxis, period. They drink more and didn't come with factory LPG. Say the early build Territorys didn't have the ball joint flaw, do you think taxi operators would be using them? No way. That said, I see plenty of Territory emergency vehicles, particularly in my area, SZ police Territorys roll in packs.

ea90gl · 27-01-2013, 07:22 PM

Just went through a similar discussion not long ago with the wife seeing as we have our first ready to come soon, i was planning to retire the BA wagon since I was thinking to either try get a van from work or get something different. Then i thought about it, its got loads of room, cheap to run being egas, cheap to maintain and repair, Ive been working on fords for ages so i know my way around them and what to look out for, has roof racks and heavy duty tow bar, is still relatively safe and is still in great shape for its age. Why the hell would i give that up to get some thing else which would only have an advantage with things like auto head lights, auto rain sensors ect basically most things we dont care about as we have no intentions with keeping up with the jones (how free does that make you feel). Money spent on the wagon in terms of preventative maintanence would still be a shed load cheaper than buying something new or a few years old. So we basically figured she can use the wagon and we will most likely flog off her lancer, when the wagon does suffer from some form of terminal illness then it will be time to upgrade

flappist · 27-01-2013, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORQUE_

We have a b series falcon sedan. We have a young child as well. By the time you fit the pram, a few bags and pieces the car ends up feeling a little full. Going to Woolworths and there isn't much space to put stuff. A modern day falcon is bigger than older falcons which many used as family cars happily.

The Mrs is saying to sell it and grab a kluger or territory or cherokee. Maybe a commodore sportswagon.

Interior space would be about the same as falcon and sure the rear storage is more in the SUV but at an expense of $40k+

Are we still using falcons as family cars and coping or has everyone else moved to a suv?

What are you using as family car? How you coping?

Easy fixed.

Tell her you are getting her one of those Ssangyong ugly cars or a Kia carnival which are cheap and large but look like crap.
Or something that runs on LPG like an old white falcon wagon.

That will determine whether it is just an image thing......

Struggo · 27-01-2013, 07:39 PM

Congrats on being a father.

That aside, if you don't need a new car keep your Falcon and save your $$$. I used to be able to get three child seats across the back my VR/VS/VX Commodores and live with the pram in the boot.

Your just going through a period in your life when a little one such as yours consumes every little bit of time and space required. The day we no longer needed a pram and could get by with a stroller was sheer bliss

This was then followed by another event at a later date, we left the stroller at the back of the car at a car park. Suffice to say the little one was never placed in a stroller again

poppa smurf · 27-01-2013, 07:40 PM

oh hell....dont buy a sangyong...BIL has one and it is a nightmare electronically, speedo fails, lights go out, dash goes blank, instrument cluster has a mind of its own

shame, mechanically it is very strong

dont take so much stuff with you, when my son and Daughter in law brings their 3 down it feels like they are moving in for a month

flappist · 27-01-2013, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

oh hell....dont buy a sangyong...BIL has one and it is a nightmare electronically, speedo fails, lights go out, dash goes blank, instrument cluster has a mind of its own

shame, mechanically it is very strong

dont take so much stuff with you, when my son and Daughter in law brings their 3 down it feels like they are moving in for a month

Don't actually buy one, just threaten to and see the reaction......

last fairlane · 27-01-2013, 07:46 PM

Hi all
going back to the 70s we had 4 kids and they all went in what ever car we had at the time sedans and wagons of all makes
now we are in our 60s we have a Territory Ghia and a BA Ghia sedan
the Terry is so much better to get in and out of
sliding in instead of lowering myself in
also when the kids want a lift to school guess what
they want to be seen in a soccer mum special
thanks John

Jason[98.EL] · 27-01-2013, 07:53 PM

I used this as our family car with 3 kids and done many a trip away with them

never had an issue with space we just packed to suit what we were doing and we never had a massive pram either

Oh and flappist I now drive a kia carnival due to #4 child arriving and to be honest I cant fault it it is a great vehicle ( not picking but the older models were very ordinary ) not the newer models

Jason

OzJavelin · 27-01-2013, 07:58 PM

Wife and I don't have kids so we'd be happy with a ute and a coupe

.. However my sister-in-law has three kids under 12yo and her last two cars have been Mondeo sedans. They will happily travel with two adults, three kids and a dog on interstate trips in something which seems to have approximately the same outside (but probably larger inside) dimensions as my VY Commodore. The secret seems to think about what you need, packing it with some intelligence and having kids that dont demand everything .. And don't carry on in the car.

RAPID_BA · 27-01-2013, 08:09 PM

She wants a car that can fit 3 seats across the back for future kids and big cargo space. That knocks out the smaller SUV.

The falcon sedan does do the job for one child but two of there??

Years back there wasn't the requirement for baby seat /booster seat until they are 7 years old.

**Polyal** · 27-01-2013, 08:21 PM

Mate the Falcon does 3 easy.

Jason[98.EL] · 27-01-2013, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORQUE_

She wants a car that can fit 3 seats across the back for future kids and big cargo space. That knocks out the smaller SUV.

The falcon sedan does do the job for one child but two of there??

Years back there wasn't the requirement for baby seat /booster seat until they are 7 years old.

they fit easy

as I posted up earlier my el did us fine till number 4 came along and we had 1 in a car seat and one in a booster seat and we had no issues

Jason

Night · 27-01-2013, 08:42 PM

Problem is families are taking more and more crap with them nowadays whenever they go anywhere. We had both a Fairmont and Calais and both where a pain when taking the kids anywhere plus I got sick of bending down and reaching in to strap my youngest in the car. We managed alright though but when she went shopping and took the kids it got really hard trying to fit a stroller and all the shopping in the back. She now has a CRV and it's heaps easier plus we don't miss the reaching in to strap the kids in anymore.

sneaky · 27-01-2013, 09:02 PM

we had an AU sedan when the kids were younger. we managed a week away with the 1 and 2 year old including big *** pram, port-a-cot, bottles and sterilising gear, clothes, etc, etc. was a tight squeeze but it fit.

now the kids are a bit older at 4 and 5 and we manage to get all our holiday gear in a hyundai ix35 which is a lot smaller in the boot, but as the kids get bigger the amount of stuff they need gets smaller..

we always complained about bending to get them in and out of the AU (rear doors not opening enough and height) then once they were almost big enough to get in and out of the sedan we got the SUV and they couldn't step up to it

good luck with it.

AussieCJ7 · 27-01-2013, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deesun

Does a Terry or Kluger really have that much more rear space than a Falcon boot?

YES I own a Territory and a FG and without a doubt the extra useable boot space in territory is significant. The rear parcel shelf in a falcon actually means less useable space and much harder to load

I have 3 kids 10 and under and Ford is the only car on the market that has a full 3 seats across the back. The commodore is much narrower in the middle seat and every thing else is worse. Friends had an X5 and it was shocking with 3 kids

This is the part of the push to smaller euro cars that I dont get, even the big euros are not made for seating 5 on a long journey

Vormund · 27-01-2013, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night

Problem is families are taking more and more crap with them nowadays whenever they go anywhere.

Completely agree.

That said, we just got a CX-5 last week. I still get my GT86 though so it's all fair.

Bushbasher · 27-01-2013, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I reached 90 thousand before I traded it, the ball joints were done under warranty when it was serviced so no dramas were had by me. That said, I wouldn't want a used SX or SY for the ball joint flaw, as you point out. I'm talking about new cars as the OP mentioned $40k, the new models have had the ball joint flaw rectified.

I think the taxi point is a bit daft. If the average family did half a million kilometers running all day and all night treating the car like they stole it and only servicing it to keep it running then you might have a point as far as I'm concerned. And you don't see SUVs as taxis, period. They drink more and didn't come with factory LPG. Say the early build Territorys didn't have the ball joint flaw, do you think taxi operators would be using them? No way. That said, I see plenty of Territory emergency vehicles, particularly in my area, SZ police Territorys roll in packs.

You missed the point, it's not that the family car is going to be driven for half a million kms like it was stolen but the fact the a Ford wagon is the vehicle of choice by taxi owners for the very reason that it's reliable and cheap to maintain even though it's being flogged mercilessly day in and day out and still keeps on keeping on with basic servicing and minimal breakdowns. As for the Terry, you traded after a whole 90,000km, woopee, keep one for 200,000km like I said and see how much it has cost you to run and maintain. As for emergency services and cops, that's not a good comparison in my opinion as they are sold off and replaced after 50-60,000km so again, the reliability and sturdiness is never put to the test where the tried and tested Falcon wagon is out there day in and day out kicking goals. The Terry may have advantages in the short term but in the medium to long term the wagon will leave the Terry in it's dust.

Bushbasher

MAD · 27-01-2013, 10:29 PM

We used to go on family trips with 3 kids and a dog in a Subaru Leone.

People are living way too big these days.

Just today we fit about $500 of stuff from Costco in the EL with LPG, including pram (Folds up and fits behind the driver's seat), and nappy bag. Being a tetris master sure helps though.

**GasoLane** · 27-01-2013, 10:33 PM

She says that a Falcon isn't big enough ?

What she really means is that all the other mothers at school drive a car that you have to climb up into like a truck and has the aerodynamics of a housebrick.

I'd be thankful your child doesn't go to an expensive private school, then you'd have to buy a 4wd with an AMG badge on it

ryeman · 27-01-2013, 11:23 PM

You forgot that private school sticker on the back window.

JG34JA · 27-01-2013, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

You missed the point, it's not that the family car is going to be driven for half a million kms like it was stolen but the fact the a Ford wagon is the vehicle of choice by taxi owners for the very reason that it's reliable and cheap to maintain even though it's being flogged mercilessly day in and day out and still keeps on keeping on with basic servicing and minimal breakdowns. As for the Terry, you traded after a whole 90,000km, woopee, keep one for 200,000km like I said and see how much it has cost you to run and maintain. As for emergency services and cops, that's not a good comparison in my opinion as they are sold off and replaced after 50-60,000km so again, the reliability and sturdiness is never put to the test where the tried and tested Falcon wagon is out there day in and day out kicking goals. The Terry may have advantages in the short term but in the medium to long term the wagon will leave the Terry in it's dust.

Bushbasher

Where do I start? Territory here, 170,000kms sweet as a nut, still solid, 11.2L/100km like the advertised sticker, AWD, 7 seats, had it as our kids have aged and it's been brilliant. SY, with updated SY2 balljoints under warranty, the 4L inline six has heaps of power, doesn't leak oil, doesn't chew oil. The build quality is still great and the servicing costs are still very reasonable, 2007 models under Ford's fixed price servicing. The functionality of the car is simply better than a wagon and much preferred by the better half, including driving position. Car is solid as a rock and I'm enjoying the fact I have a pretty unique combo - 4L inline 6, ZF 6 speed and AWD and respecting it more after reading of the diesel's lag.

That said, the Falcon wagon would win on rear loadspace and with LPG on fuel costs. As a car for myself and my interests I rate the Falcon wagon highly. But taking the kids up on the Alpine road through July to September, I know which I'd prefer... I'm just stoked that Ford Australia built something that can do this.

JG34JA · 27-01-2013, 11:50 PM

OK on topic, the Falcon IS certainly big enough to be a family car. We had an ED sedan when our little ones were younger at the turn of the millennium and it did just fine.

The problem, as others have said, is the sheer amount of stuff, and the arms race in pram size/bling that has occurred in recent times. Watching a family member with 2 under the age of 4 load prams, eskies and Christmas drinks, kids, presents into a Sportwagon and have the rear door barely shut and paraphernalia stacked completely to the roof was very amusing.

Out of interest the former body, VT-Z and the Falcon wagons, AU-BF3, or a Territory, would have this kind of load covered.

Stefan · 27-01-2013, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

People are living way too big these days.

Not wrong. Why is it now the majority of new houses are 5 to 6 bedroom, with a media room, 2 living rooms and a parent retreat? My parents made do with a 2 bedder until I was in my teens. None of my friend when I was growing up had more than a 3 bedder. Most were sharing bedrooms. Doesn't happen these days.

Its not just spoilt kids these days, gen X spoil themselves way too much....(me included).

SSVPom · 27-01-2013, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

+1

Our AU wagon is 14 years old and has been going strong for the 10 years we've had it.

Bought it when we found out we were pregnant with the 1st in 2003. We now have two and the wagon has always carried what we needed.

We are now at the stage where our kids are older and we carry less stuff on our interstate trips. I usually get a clear view out the rear screen now. For a number of years though, it was always stacked to the roof.

We've pondered a Territory but I think we'll end up with another Futura Wagon, a 2007 BFII or so. There's plenty of BF MkIII's around but they're only in XT spec. You could grab one of those cheap and upspec it a bit/lot.

LPG makes these cars cheap to run too.

GK

Hey George,

Try and find a BF3 petrol XT (with stability control) with the factory optioned side airbags, alloys, rear electric windows, Bluetooth, metallic paint, rear sensors and towbar... Then colour code the outside to make it look Futura like !

VICFPV · 28-01-2013, 12:00 AM

That's what it was designed gor in the first place. A family allrounder. That's the sedan too.
I have a BA XT station wagon as my wifes car and just love it as it does everything for us in terms of carrying big loads.
I hire out the FG XR6 for holiday trips and I tell you it will fit 5 in comfort with their luggage. Pretty good fuel wise on the highway for me too.
Looks like you need a smaller pram. But I don't blame you as prams these days are like a house on wheels which is displacing everything around it.
As for injuries you are still going to have that issue with the SUV as you will now have to lift it and raise it into the SUV. Try maintaining a SUV compared to a sedan or wagon and it ain't cheap.

**Dave R** · 28-01-2013, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

You missed the point, it's not that the family car is going to be driven for half a million kms like it was stolen but the fact the a Ford wagon is the vehicle of choice by taxi owners for the very reason that it's reliable and cheap to maintain even though it's being flogged mercilessly day in and day out and still keeps on keeping on with basic servicing and minimal breakdowns. As for the Terry, you traded after a whole 90,000km, woopee, keep one for 200,000km like I said and see how much it has cost you to run and maintain. As for emergency services and cops, that's not a good comparison in my opinion as they are sold off and replaced after 50-60,000km so again, the reliability and sturdiness is never put to the test where the tried and tested Falcon wagon is out there day in and day out kicking goals. The Terry may have advantages in the short term but in the medium to long term the wagon will leave the Terry in it's dust.

Bushbasher

Have you even owned a Territory before?

I see in your signature that you have an AU wagon, I'm glad you are enjoying it, but insisting that a discontinued wagon is a more viable family car than a new Ford Territory on the basis that you believe it will be less expensive to maintain at the 200,000km mark (ie, 10 years of driving for an average family) is ridiculous. Moreso because the vast majority of families would never even get close to 150,000, let alone 200,000 and the OP referred to $40k, new cars - with warranty.

Regarding your previous remarks, I do apologise that I can afford to update periodically. I do not ever intend to own a car up until the 200,000km mark - as with all older cars out of warranty, there will be expenses involved. I agree the Falcon wagon is reliable, my old man had an AU wagon back in the day and it was a good car, but think about why they are reliable- they are dumb as a bag of hammers - leaf sprung rear, no features inside - they might be great if you are a taxi operator who only intends to keep them running (and only just, the sounds they all make are horrible) but as a family car (which is the subject of this thread) they simply are not in the running in 2013, you can't even buy them new anymore.

Windsor220 · 28-01-2013, 01:43 AM

Not sure why you would bag the Territory for reliability when it shares stuff with the Falcon and is built by the same people. It will probably last the same distance.

dannyxm · 28-01-2013, 03:21 AM

Rubbish

Mrs and I have 2 one year old twins, we have an FG XR6 (and a Pulsar) and it carries everything and then some.

Twin pram, nappy bag, food, spare nappies and food and a bag full of random crap you need for twins plus the groceries from a run from Coles. There is room for a big unit to sit in the back seat next to the kiddy seats also.

We only now got the FG, we did have an EF XR8 that did the job with consummate ease.

Falcon is more than adequate, people today just want to out do everyone else and get into debt because of it.

Mrs and I are both Solicitors, sounding very arrogant but we can by something more flash, but more than happy with the FG, buying it cash rather than spend more $ or get into debt for something else.

Secondly, both of us are sick of doing family law matters where all you divide is debt, not assets because people live way beyond their means.

AusJas · 28-01-2013, 06:31 AM

Sometimes it is nice to have that little bit more room when you go away with the family....i definately didn't want to get rid of the xr8 so I just bought a small covered trailer.....

AndyXR6T · 28-01-2013, 08:06 AM

Fit 3 kids in my FG everyday. They are all under 7 so require car seats. Admittedly having all 3 car seats in it be ones fairly tight but it fits, the kids don't complain and I get my weekend "fun" drives still.
As said above "doesn't matter how big it is, it's how you use it". We always have shopping bags, soccer balls, cricket bats, fold up chairs etc in the boot on standby and still manage to get a pram and extra shopping in when needed.