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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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06-06-2013, 08:55 PM | #31 | |||
Ute Star
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 56
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06-06-2013, 09:10 PM | #32 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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2016 can't come quick enough. its the same stuff rehashed over and over.
build a bridge. accept the falcon isn't all things to all people and with the amount of choice on the market.... well like i said, the same things, over and over... |
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06-06-2013, 09:12 PM | #33 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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after the recession we had to have, followed by the gfc, after the Carbon Tax, the mining tax, the price of energy in well off countries doubling, the world is going to flood oh the global warming ! kim jong is going to start ww3 with nukes!................................. the never ending we'll all be doomed scenarios in the media, a lot of people are looking at how much they want to spend and ticking every box they can trying to be frugal, not to mention imo a fair wack of the populous has less disposable income these days, people doing it tuff will buy the cheaper option every time. average Person x for example doesnt want to spend a long time paying a loan off in these troubled times even if it means buying a smaller car to make do , big cars with big prices are now a luxury for more of the population ! Cheaper models like focus /I30/ fiesta, etc ,etc are taking over, no amount of country pack will save big cars imo. |
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06-06-2013, 09:25 PM | #34 | ||
The One Who Knocks
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kalgoorlie
Posts: 1,196
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They evolved with the times. Lowly slung Falcons still sold really well when the large car market was still going strong. People wanted sporty cars, Small towns became cities and there was less need for the humble family taxi to go out bush.
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06-06-2013, 09:30 PM | #35 | ||
RAGE Engineering
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 651
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Many years ago, Falcon and Commodore set the pace of modern traffic. You had to go to expensive imports to get something that was faster off the line, generally speaking.
Technology improved and soon, cheap and cheerful hatchbacks were giving the big boys a run for their money. Smaller cars then got bigger, so that also eroded the Falcon and Commodores advantage. Quality improved no end, as did features. Falcon and Commodore started to lag behind. 4WD's became hip and were quite nicely styled, whilst Falcon and Commodore were starting to look quite boring. Society started to get a little more upmarket in their taste, again where Falcon and Commodore were seen as bogan mobiles mostly. Before you knew it,the main reasons for buying Falcon and Commodore just weren't there any more. Add the quality issues, the poor dealer and after service experience.... It all adds up to a market that has moved on, with heaps more choice, better quality and an overall better ownership experience. You want space , get a 4WD You want to tow, get a 4WD You want performance and handling, get a 4 pot turbo or hot hatch. You want quality, get a Jap You want status, get a Euro You want cheap, get a Korean You want lifestyle, get a SUV Oh yeah, but Falcon and Commodore are great for eating up the long distances in Oz!... yeah sure they are, but everyone flies now. Just some of my theories.
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If it doesn't fit, use a BIGGER hammer |
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06-06-2013, 09:35 PM | #36 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 251
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What Mic said x 2.
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06-06-2013, 10:35 PM | #37 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
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The best thing about my EL Fairmont Ghia, I lifted the front by about 10mm, and the rear is running the factory springs with new shocks all round, ditched the crappy 17" aftermarket wheels it had when I bought it, chucked on a set of factory 15" wheels with the big *** sidewall.
I jump gutters in it and drive across paddocks, across local no roads which are rutted like anything. It has awesome ground clearance. |
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06-06-2013, 11:09 PM | #38 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 207
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As a life long buyer of large rwd sedans, I'll tell you why I only own fwd hatchbacks now.
As the years have passed large cars have gained about 500 kilos in weight on average, you can not blame this on safety laws alone as small cars have the same side intrusion bars sand the same number or more airbags and they have only gained 1 or 200 kilos over the same time, its mostly been lack of effort due to being able to easily poke large enough motors in therm to tow the fat around. As a result of both these, they use far to much fuel to be competitive in the market, their power to weight ratio is no better than the average 1.6 litre hatch. They are not much bigger inside than the average hatch despite being a metre or so longer, so long as you only have 2 or three people in the car you can actually carry more in a small hatch. The lighter small cars handle much better, are more competent in adverse conditions. There's effectively no advantages to a large rwd car other than being faster in a straight line in the upper end sport models, do you spend an extra 30 grand on a car to go 2 seconds faster over a 1/4 mile? Doubt it. The only future for large cars is fwd or awd wagons and only diesels. Holden could if they wanted to extend the sportswagons lifespan if they choose to go in that direction but I can't see the sedan continuing much longer and then even with a wagon you have to compete with the Skoda and Hyundai etc, even with the sedan how can you possibly compete against a Mondeo with a Falcon or Commodore, the Mondeo is just so much better. The utes could go the same way in awd if they build them taller and stronger. Other than that I can't see the point. |
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07-06-2013, 12:46 AM | #39 | ||
FAWD - No Boundaries
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 8,129
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My Falcon is a great all round car ! I've raised it up, so ground clearance is no real issue... it runs on 17's with 55 profile tyres... so rim damage & rough road comfort is no real issue... it's got dual injected fuel (petrol/LPG) running mainly on LPG, so range and running cost is no real issue... it's a Wagon, so 5 passengers and a large load carrying capacity is no real issue... it's got a full High Series interior, so passenger comfort is no real issue... it's got a heavy duty tow hitch, so towing good loads is no real issue... but above all else, it's still a Falcon, so it's as rugged, reliable and fairly cheap to maintain... just as much as any of my previous Falcons (going back to my first XB) ever were !
OK... I've modified it to suit me.... but I'm sure if similarly speced Falcons were available... they would be popular ! Once people I know have riden/driven my Falcon... they all say they want one ! For me... it's a shame the Falcon wasn't produced to be more things to more people anymore :( D
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View My Build thread 22 DJR Shell V-Power Mustang Eskymobile (my first EV) 07 BF2 AWD Falcon Wagon (Daily driver) 04 BA Falcon 1Tonner Ute (New Project) 03 BA Falcon Wagon (Spare) 98 NL Fairlane Ghia V8 (Weekend cruiser) 70 VG paddock racer (Cain it til it breaks.. fix it.. Cain it all over again !)
Last edited by Gothefalcon; 07-06-2013 at 12:54 AM. |
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07-06-2013, 03:32 AM | #40 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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when did you last drive a new falcon (or commodore)? If you ever had a serious crash, you would be very grateful of the extra few 100kg and the extra size of the vehicle. ANCAP ratings are only comparable across the same category of car, so a 5 star small car does not equal a 5 star large car. fuel economy in a large car would only be about 3-5L/100km worse than most popular cars on the market. thats less than $3 on a 60L fill!!! the fuel economy is one of the most common used reasons why people avoid the falcon (or large cars) and yet the facts are very different. to say they are no bigger on the inside clearly indicates that you either don't actually need a car bigger than what you have, or you don't have a family or both. how many child seats can you fit across the rear seat in a smaller car?? as for handling, thats pretty much irrelevant for 90% of the buying public. i know which one i'd rather be in, esp out on the open road with b doubles and road trains etc. as for the wagon, how's the mondeo sales? falcon has smashed mondeo every month in sales and it no longer has a wagon. mondeo supposedly kills the falcon for features, quality etc, has petrol and diesel variants as well as hatch and wagon, and yet only a few buy them. so well done for your situation, where you have found that a small hatch does the job just as well, but i respectfully disagree. |
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07-06-2013, 08:32 AM | #41 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,137
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I agree, my current XR ute has 18's and was the first time I moved from XL's to an XR and while it looks ace I wish I had of stuck with the XL.
Scrapes its guts in dirt roads I go down, front spats always hit the deck (surprised I haven't lost one yet) and the rear alloys look like they have been hit with a shottie. A country pack on the XR would now be my choice if it existed. I may now go a VF. |
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07-06-2013, 10:14 AM | #42 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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and its taken the edge off the nice limousine ride, the wheels/ tyres will be getting the bullet first opportunity for some higher profile tyres with cushier ride and a bigger rolling diameter. The lower profiles have good points for sure, but on our crappy roads, every time I hit one of those nasty expansion joints or a pot hole in the road it puts .me in a bad mood thinking about the wear and tear the suspension is copping, or the chance I'll be changing a tyre soon because of a stuffed sidewall. |
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07-06-2013, 10:42 AM | #43 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18,990
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I'm a narrowly focussed owner that enjoys driving my narrowly focussed car everyday amongst all the bubblecars....
Last edited by flappist; 07-06-2013 at 10:46 AM. Reason: be nice |
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07-06-2013, 12:28 PM | #44 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 207
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Haven't been in a serious crash however have seen enough wreaks to know small cars versus large cars is a false rumour, I'm sure you've seen the episode of 5th gear where the conducted a head on between a pretty strengthened steel large car and a current small car and seen the small car cut straight through the large car and still have the front door open easily. The older large car was stuffed. Its not about size its about strength and even the BF and VE are weak, cheap steel. FG maybe better I don't know. I do know if rather be in a crash in the fiesta than the BF that's for sure. Drive a VE that's done a few ks and the things twist just as badly as a VN with the same miles on it. The difference in real world fuel economy is more like 4-5l/100, more if you're talking diesels and that's a ton of money per year if you actually drive the car. But your right I've never run out of room in the fiesta and don't need anything larger, have looked at focus's but they are not noticeably bigger inside. ANCAP ratings are all done at the same speeds, small cars don't get any more damage than large cars, often they suffer less because they aren't hitting the wall/pole with much force/weight. Get on YouTube and watch the fiesta side impact, I know I did before I bought it. I know the Mondeo doesnt sell here but its because of non educated buyers rather than the car, it sells fine in Europe, it takes time for people to realise what's out there and how good it is. BTW handling is more important than anything, its far better to avoid a crash than be in one even with all the high strength steel and air bags in the world.. If you can drive around it, its a much better day. Avoiding accidents at 110 in a fiesta is effortless, you can throw it anywhere at that speed with as much steering lock as you want and it'll take you where you need to go. I appreciate that. I had to do it a few times already. |
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07-06-2013, 12:40 PM | #45 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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you don't understand physics very well going by how you look at crash data.
i have seen the utube clip of new small car v old large car. how is that relevant? i'm comparing new small 5star v new large 5 star. a car crashing into a solid fixed object is the same as hitting something of the same mass. it doesn't simulate a small object hitting a larger heavier object moving in the opposite direction. i would suggest even though bf is 4 star, it would fare better than the fiesta. fuel economy? i said 3-5L difference. you say 4-5L difference. either way, at 5L difference per 100km, its $3 extra per 60L fill. its nothing. people that say otherwise can seem to easily afford an extra carton of beer or pack of smokes etc. i'd rather drive a larger car knowing my family is just that little bit safer. FG falcon is one of the safest cars on the road. |
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07-06-2013, 01:07 PM | #46 | ||
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Foothills of the Macedon Ranges
Posts: 18,606
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To exaggerate what prydey is saying, just imagine a small car hitting a truck. Obviously the small car will be far worse off regardless of what safety rating it has, with the truck maybe getting a few scratches.
The FG, which has a five star safety rating, is designed to absorb energy from the impact with the other object. Yes it will crumple, but in a controlled fashion as its meant to do, to absorb the energy. The passenger cell, by design, is relatively much stronger, so to remain intact with the passengers restrained by their seatbelts therefore having the best chance for survival. |
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07-06-2013, 01:08 PM | #47 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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07-06-2013, 01:14 PM | #48 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,776
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Agree with you that FG is very very safe much safer than a Fiesta.
But disagree on your fuel cost. Lets take an FG that does 600kms at 10 litres per km at $1.40 per litre that's 60 litres equalling $84. Fiesta auto on a bad day does 600kms at 7 litres per km at $1.40 per litre that's 42 litres equalling $58.80 That's a difference of $26.80 not $3 if my maths are right. So I do 800 kms a week , I,m $1500 a year better off in fuel and $20000 better off in purchase price in a Fiesta. I cant afford to run a Falc. |
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07-06-2013, 01:16 PM | #49 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 259
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07-06-2013, 01:18 PM | #50 | |||
Regular Member
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Posts: 259
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07-06-2013, 01:20 PM | #51 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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yeah, brain fade on the fuel thing. scratch that. not sure what i was thinking of.
mind you, ford do build a couple of falcons for the slightly more fuel conscious. one is ecolpi, the other is ecoboost. whilst both would possibly still be more than $3 dearer () the gap is closed somewhat. Last edited by prydey; 07-06-2013 at 01:27 PM. |
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07-06-2013, 01:31 PM | #52 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,776
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What economy do you get out of your FG rob?
The ecoboost is interesting but because Ford never marketed it or advertised it its a real orphan with low numbers around, just wonder if it would be risky buying one. |
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07-06-2013, 01:41 PM | #53 | ||||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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my wife's focus gets the same economy, but totally different scene. its the school run, shopping run machine, so a much lower ave speed. Quote:
ecoboost technology is here to stay. my next falcon will likely be one. i've driven one, and they are quicker than my current one, cheaper to run and cheaper rego, with no compromise to the great falcon package we all love. |
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07-06-2013, 02:58 PM | #54 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,573
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I want a falcon. I'm under 40. I sure as hell don't want a focus. what an idiot |
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07-06-2013, 03:25 PM | #55 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,653
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07-06-2013, 03:41 PM | #56 | |||
Giddy up.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kramerica Industries.
Posts: 15,639
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07-06-2013, 05:19 PM | #58 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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the fact that the ecoboost falcon doesn't appear to be selling that well doesn't mean that people aren't aware that it is available. i know many non car people who know that falcon now comes with a 4cyl.
large cars are in decline and have been for a while. ford tried a few things to reverse the trend but the consumer has spoken and large cars are still on the nose. like i've mentioned previously, too many people expect one car to cover an extremely broad audience. it just doesn't happen anymore. not with a sedan based vehicle anyway. this doesn't make the falcon a bad car. anyone who thinks the product is at fault, hasn't sampled one long term for quite some time. |
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08-06-2013, 01:32 PM | #59 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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as for small cars they are much better today, but they still very have little crumple zone compared to the bigger cars, and ..... it is not always about the damage to car old mate, it is often the sudden stop at the end that kills people, as for throwing around i have no doubt about the ability in my old falcon either. |
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08-06-2013, 03:38 PM | #60 | ||
The One Who Knocks
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kalgoorlie
Posts: 1,196
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The evolution of 4x4s has a say in it as well. They used to be rough, featureless cars that were only any good off road, thesedays if you need a car to go off road then the big 4x4s do that and are comfortable on the road.
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