No guarantees falcon here to 2016 and mustang relesaed a year early in 2015

[P6LTD351]

Well, Ford is a business. No point the union criticising Ford for not throwing money on a dead horse. I wonder if Paul Difelice of the AMWU would advocate for all workers to take a pay cut and that money go into marketing the Falcon and Territory then? I feel for the workers but the bottom line is Ford's concern, not whether they stay until 2016. All 3 manufacturers have stated that their closing dates are 'no later' than 2016, 2017. Key words being 'no later'. Technically, they can shut up shop anytime before then.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Ford are not working to a date in time with Falcon they are working with a number.

My understanding is they had to stockpile Automatic Transmissions so there is "magic number" that have to be built.

The Falcon pretty much ends once that number has depleted as they probably can't sell the quantities they need to keep manufacturing going with Manual Transmission cars.

It is probably the same for the V8 Engines too.

If that's the case, I'm thinking they will release the German made 6HP28 in turbo six and Coyote, as the improvements listed over the 6HP26 are consistent with Fords Press release when funding for 201X was secured.
They could still continue sourcing the Chinese ZF used in ecoboost ( and use it in NA six) as well as Territory diesels in house six speeder?

[Sioso]

I think the ecoboost Mustang is going to flop in similar fashion to the CV6 Monaro......5.0 should sell ok if all the people claiming they are going to buy one follow through.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BLOWN.GTP

I think the ecoboost Mustang is going to flop in similar fashion to the CV6 Monaro......5.0 should sell ok if all the people claiming they are going to buy one follow through.

Different time and quality of engine. EcoBoost Mustang is a 2.3L I4T with 227 kW, the CV6 was "good" for 171kW and the GenIII v8 was so much better it wasn't funny.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Different time and quality of engine. EcoBoost Mustang is a 2.3L I4T with 227 kW, the CV6 was "good" for 171kW and the GenIII v8 was so much better it wasn't funny.

Spot on, most Monaro buyers went for the V8, something like 98% of them if I recall, and the Supercharged V6 was basically a boat anchor next to pretty much every other 6cyl at the time, I lol'ed at how HSV quietly dropped the XU6 variant when Ford released the 182kw Barra :

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Well, Ford is a business. No point the union criticising Ford for not throwing money on a dead horse. I wonder if Paul Difelice of the AMWU would advocate for all workers to take a pay cut and that money go into marketing the Falcon and Territory then? I feel for the workers but the bottom line is Ford's concern, not whether they stay until 2016. All 3 manufacturers have stated that their closing dates are 'no later' than 2016, 2017. Key words being 'no later'. Technically, they can shut up shop anytime before then.

I agree. The sales numbers speak for themselves, yes we will get FH BUT only because its cheaper for Ford to bring it out than pay the Govt back the funding it provided for that model. How long it lasts, we'll see, but if monthly sales number head anywhere down near where they are now...

[P6LTD351]

You are spot on Rodge.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by Rodge

I agree. The sales numbers speak for themselves, yes we will get FH BUT only because its cheaper for Ford to bring it out than pay the Govt back the funding it provided for that model. How long it lasts, we'll see, but if monthly sales number head anywhere down near where they are now...

I dont get all the pessimism, let's say FG sales plateau at 400-500 before the new ones released. I think dealers are keeping as little as possible in their floor plan, because they will be impossible to run out at a profit- even with run out incentives. Only because the nameplate is tarnished now. Toyota still sees fit to promote Aussie large cars (1% finance) and Holden with ads.
I'd be surprised if the new model didn't get back to 1000 initially, dealers will want it on the floor. Surely the new model buzz will keep it in safe territory for at least a year? Especially if it looks awesome.

[BENT_8]

Ford need to make a decision and stand by it.
What is the value in offering 3 years of notice if you have given up on the product and have allowed sales to drop to a point where talk has shifted to closing sooner.
I cant see them lasting much longer, so the 3 years notice is a smoke screen and did nothing to benefit its workforce.

The question I have is, if they were prepared to give 3 years notice of closure why not wait until the new product was released and then give 18 months.
As it is now, they will be lucky to last 18 months from that announcement.

Everyone slammed Holden for playing hardball with the government. Whilst this may be true, Holden made their announcement inline with its new model and the sales have remained steady as the new product is appealing and the large car segment has rallied.

Ford don't have to come out and say it, they seek to kill Falcon/Terry as soon as they can so they can get on with making bigger profits out of asia.

The evidence is there for those who wish to acknowledge it.

[Bossxr8]

That's the conclusion I have come up with, the sooner they kill it the cheaper it will be for them to pull out. Hence no faith in the new product, as you get out what you put in, which Ford are showing will be zero. They have already waved the white flag by chopping production by nearly 40% a few months before it goes into production.

All they want is to keep it on sale long enough for the imported replacements to arrive.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

I dont get all the pessimism, let's say FG sales plateau at 400-500 before the new ones released. I think dealers are keeping as little as possible in their floor plan, because they will be impossible to run out at a profit- even with run out incentives. Only because the nameplate is tarnished now. Toyota still sees fit to promote Aussie large cars (1% finance) and Holden with ads.
I'd be surprised if the new model didn't get back to 1000 initially, dealers will want it on the floor. Surely the new model buzz will keep it in safe territory for at least a year? Especially if it looks awesome.

I'm with Bossxr8 and others on this. It comes down to consumer confidence. This is not a "normal" new model scenario, this is the final model so it comes down to who is prepared to take at face value Ford's legal obligation to provide ten years supply of parts for that model and support it properly over its full lifetime. I hope i'm wrong but I reckon sometime in mid 2015...

They have already waved the white flag by chopping production by nearly 40% a few months before it goes into production.

Early termination of the FPV brand is another example of their white flag waiving.

[FalconXV]

If you're right i hope it bites them on the **** for treating fans and employees alike with contempt

[BENT_8]

Lets agree that manufacturing in this country is too expensive to be viable, given.
But the way Ford have gone about it is borderline industrial sabotage.
Firstly, they announce their intentions to cease manufacturing on the same day as Holden released their new product.
Their intention was clearly to derail their opposition at the same time

They then proclaimed to have their workers future in mind and gave 3 years notice only to abandon the product and allow production to slowly die and creating an air of uncertainty of the next 3 years.

A number of members slammed Holden for their methods to attempt to survive by giving their employee's a chance to cut costs.
Unfortunately it didn't work but the general public saw it as a genuine attempt to keep food on its employees tables and have stuck by the brand.

So tell me, who would you rather work for, a company on life support, or a company pumping out 4000 cars a month and still offering overtime?

I said upon Fords announcement that if we didn't stand up to these corporate giants that it would snowball.
Well, it has.

Ford wont pay Aussies to build their product, but they will take it in exchange for their imported product and pay their Asian workforce.

I will always love the Aussie built Ford products, but the company can go to hell!

[BHDOGS]

Holden and Toyota can go to hell to

[P6LTD351]

@ BENT_8

OK, let's see. Holden have always announced things in the past that have coincided with a Ford release so my heart bleeds for them.

Who would I rather work for? I'd rather work for a company that doesn't pretend it's all good when it's not. I don't care how many cars Holden are selling - they are finished. It's about time Holden, for once in their history, stop the charade that they are going well.

Ford said from the beginning that closure would take place NO LATER than Oct 2016. That could also mean tomorrow! They are a business - not here to make people secure and sleep easy at night.

Ford does not owe us anything. And to tell you the truth, at the end of each week or fortnight (once workers have been paid) - they don't owe them anything either. Entitlement culture in this country is rife. You know what? Everyone has the opportunity to work their butt off and start their own car company just like Henry did.

Go and buy a Holden.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lets agree that manufacturing in this country is too expensive to be viable, given.
But the way Ford have gone about it is borderline industrial sabotage.
Firstly, they announce their intentions to cease manufacturing on the same day as Holden released their new product.
Their intention was clearly to derail their opposition at the same time

They then proclaimed to have their workers future in mind and gave 3 years notice only to abandon the product and allow production to slowly die and creating an air of uncertainty of the next 3 years.

A number of members slammed Holden for their methods to attempt to survive by giving their employee's a chance to cut costs.
Unfortunately it didn't work but the general public saw it as a genuine attempt to keep food on its employees tables and have stuck by the brand.

So tell me, who would you rather work for, a company on life support, or a company pumping out 4000 cars a month and still offering overtime?

I said upon Fords announcement that if we didn't stand up to these corporate giants that it would snowball.
Well, it has.

Ford wont pay Aussies to build their product, but they will take it in exchange for their imported product and pay their Asian workforce.

I will always love the Aussie built Ford products, but the company can go to hell!

One of the senior union stewards got blasted by very high up management for even suggesting closure will probably come early, they called him defeatist and negative. 4 days later Graziano is in the media saying the same thing. They are living in a fantasy world, trying to make the employees and general public think that Oct 2016 is still go while pulling the rug out from underneath to kill it early. It really makes my blood boil the way Ford PR are spruiking the brilliant job they are doing in this magical transformation to imports by destroying what built Ford Australia in the first place. If it wasn't for Falcon, and a lesser degree Territory, Ford would have been dead decades ago. Way to s*** on your heritage.

I understand why it had to happen but let it die with some dignity, not like a 90 year old geriatric patient with no memory who constantly wets himself, and stares blankly at a wall all day.

[Syndrome]

If FH does not sell more than 1,000 a month, they will pull the plug early.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Firstly, they announce their intentions to cease manufacturing on the same day as Holden released their new product.
Their intention was clearly to derail their opposition at the same time

The local announcement was made the next morning after the decision came through overnight from the US, it unfortunately coincided with the VF release and Graziano rang the GMH boss beforehand to apologize for the timing of the news.

[Nikked]

I don't think ford will be worried about month to month sales...they probably working to estimate number, and will place any sub-contract orders to this number...nothing worse then shutting up shop and having a bunch of parts over-ordered laying around...

[FalconXV]

How can they know until its released? I think the read between the lines question is whether they're planning around demand tapering off, or working out how quickly they can knock it on the head after it's release.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

@ BENT_8

OK, let's see. Holden have always announced things in the past that have coincided with a Ford release so my heart bleeds for them.

Who would I rather work for? I'd rather work for a company that doesn't pretend it's all good when it's not. I don't care how many cars Holden are selling - they are finished. It's about time Holden, for once in their history, stop the charade that they are going well.

Ford said from the beginning that closure would take place NO LATER than Oct 2016. That could also mean tomorrow! They are a business - not here to make people secure and sleep easy at night.

Ford does not owe us anything. And to tell you the truth, at the end of each week or fortnight (once workers have been paid) - they don't owe them anything either. Entitlement culture in this country is rife. You know what? Everyone has the opportunity to work their butt off and start their own car company just like Henry did.

Go and buy a Holden.

You clearly have little idea of the gravity of the events.
Its not like Ford announced the return of the wagon or heaven forbid, a diesel powered Falcon.
No, they took the opportunity to sign the Australian Automotive manufacturing industries death sentence.
Hardly comparable.

It is little wonder that Holden still sells well, public perception is a valuable asset.
I doubt public perception has ever been bandied around a board room table at Ford to be honest. At least that's how it appears from their marketing efforts.

As for what Ford owe, Ford owe me nothing. But they owe their workforce a great deal of gratitude for building a fantastic product that Aussies have cherished for 50 odd years.
With that in mind, I believe they need to either get behind the product and send it off with dignity in 2016 or pull up stumps and let everyone move on.

They aren't helping their cause if they plan to be a profitable importer.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

The local announcement was made the next morning after the decision came through overnight from the US, it unfortunately coincided with the VF release and Graziano rang the GMH boss beforehand to apologize for the timing of the news.

Yeah riiiiight...

I can just imagine the call
'Hi Bob, just thought I'd call and pull the plug on 90 years of manufacturing history, sorry for the short notice. We'll give you 3 years to get your affairs in order, but you better digest it all overnight and announce it tomorrow morning without fail.'

It couldn't wait 48hrs, nope, they only got 3 years notice so time is of the essence.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

If FH does not sell more than 1,000 a month, they will pull the plug early.

Ford do not even have the capacity to build that many Falcons a month. They will be building 83 cars a day from June and that includes Territory which sells in higher numbers. I can't remember the exact breakdown but all up they might only be building 500 Falcons and 250 utes, somewhere around those sorts of numbers a month.

1000 a month is not going to happen. Not even Territory will get those numbers.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

1000 a month is not going to happen. Not even Territory will get those numbers.

What happens if demand exceeds current production capacity?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

What happens if demand exceeds current production capacity?

Do what they always have done...

[Smoke Pursuit]

Demand will not exceed. You only have to look at Fords own fleet to see they are keeping Falcon going by registering employee lease cars. They must only be offering Falcon and Territory to employees, every second car sitting out the back of Ford head office is a XR6, and every 3rd is probably ecolpi (obviously trying to balance the book on LPI sales).

I was blown away by the amount of new registered Falcons sitting around the plant. Ford could easily turn the tap off on those which would probably make Falcon numbers look closer to 300 units a month, turn Avis and Hertz off and there would probably be about 100 Falcons sold a month to small business / private buyers!

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Yeah riiiiight...

I can just imagine the call
'Hi Bob, just thought I'd call and pull the plug on 90 years of manufacturing history, sorry for the short notice. We'll give you 3 years to get your affairs in order, but you better digest it all overnight and announce it tomorrow morning without fail.'

It couldn't wait 48hrs, nope, they only got 3 years notice so time is of the essence.

See you're assuming the locals got a call to be informed they would have to close. They already knew that part, they just found out when they had to shut down. And frankly why should anyone at FoMoCo give a stuff about Holden. Letting their own workers know asap and end the anxiety of what the future held was far more important then helping poor old Holden and VF.

Do you think Holden has handled it any better, begging for Fed funds, then when that wasn't forthcoming they pull up shop. The same mob that received more then Toyota and Ford combined in the last 10 years. Maybe if Holden didn't get the extra cash, they couldn't have offered the level of discounts on their cars which directly hurt their opposition. VF sales haven't saved Holden from staying and Ford's decision to close didn't affect Holden in any way apart from being second to taking the tough decision. Do you honestly think waiting 48hours or even a week would have any effect on VF launch or sales.

[stevefreestyle]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

If that's the case, I'm thinking they will release the German made 6HP28 in turbo six and Coyote, as the improvements listed over the 6HP26 are consistent with Fords Press release when funding for 201X was secured.
They could still continue sourcing the Chinese ZF used in ecoboost ( and use it in NA six) as well as Territory diesels in house six speeder?

Not wishing to be pedantic, but its Myami ( not Coyote) - and you are correct in the official position is that the 6HP28 is stockpiled for use only in the XR6T & XR8

[FormulaFG]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

That's the conclusion I have come up with, the sooner they kill it the cheaper it will be for them to pull out. Hence no faith in the new product, as you get out what you put in, which Ford are showing will be zero. They have already waved the white flag by chopping production by nearly 40% a few months before it goes into production.

All they want is to keep it on sale long enough for the imported replacements to arrive.

As a potential buyer of an FH (albeit maybe a pipe dream) what I'm hearing as I read that is the product is not going to be very good or well supported.

Have I got that right? Should I not buy one?

[stevefreestyle]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

What happens if demand exceeds current production capacity?

What sell more Falcons ???

That wont happen unless they sack there entire Marketing Management "team".