Were Australian Fords Rubbish?

[Jacko*]

Were Australian Fords Rubbish? I would have to say no. I have owned many Falcons over the years from XK to BA as well as other local & some foreign cars. Compared to the overseas made cars the Falcons were larger more comfortable & gave a smoother ride. Rust has always been an issue with the Falcons even the BA I have now had rust under the battery. Saying that most of the Falcons I had lived outside exposed to the elements. Quality of plastics used inside has improved a lot over the years & the ergonomics always seemed better in the Falcon compared to Japanese & Korean cars. I bought Falcons because they were good value for money, a solid powerful car that could tow, carry 4 passengers & their luggage. Any issues I had I was able to fix myself with affordable parts. I wonder now what will be the substitute for the Falcon once it's gone? Or is there enough demand for for such a car? Surely whatever imports find there way here won't have the same level of support as the Falcon which has been designed & improved here in Australia for more than 50 years.
I think we will find ourselves in a situation in the future where we didn't realize how good we had it with cheap affordable local cars. But it's all a little late really, decisions have already been made & we will get whatever some other country wants to send us.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by smoo

A pointless post. You're saying a clapped out neglected 20 year old Falcon and problems resulting from age/mileage is a reflection on the quality of Falcons past and present? Or all the other 20 year old cars out there are getting around with no dramas?
Go and buy an E or S Class from the same era and let us know how you get on.

You mean like this one I helped work on from 1982?



All the electrics still worked, except for the factory cruise control, it was running rough and needed new plugs, leads, rotor cap and button.

From what I could see is it had a new alternator at one stage, it still had all its original wiring and all the electrics such as the power windows, climate control etc working.

20 year old Falcon or not its still got all its services documented in the book up to 170,000km, never missed one up until that point.

Also age and milage, whats 235,000km got on 390,000km that one of our other cars has?

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

You mean like this one I helped work on from 1982?

image

All the electrics still worked, except for the factory cruise control, it was running rough which was an issue with dry solder joins on the ignition module and needed new plugs, leads, rotor cap and button.

From what I could see is it had a new alternator at one stage, it still had all its original wiring and all the electrics such as the power windows etc working.

20 year old Falcon or not its still got all its services documented in the book up to 170,000km, never missed one up until that point.

No, that was when Mercedes built real cars. I encourage you to drop 10 grand on the same era as the E Series, W140. The you'll see what the story is with what is to go wrong.
BTW I've owned three of that shape Mercedes, two 280SE and one 560SEC. Not without their issues. V8s suffer weak timing chain tensioner and guides, not a cheap or quick repair. The 6s are good for worn valve guides and oil leaks. Central locking is guaranteed to fail on them. Look out for rust especially if UK import. But I suppose small niggly issues on decades old cars is only limited to Falcons aye yeah right.

[XR Martin]

S116 and S126 were the most reliable Mercs ever made.


I dare anyone to own an S140 and not go insane however.
Dont mind the biodegradable plastic insulation on the wiring...

[CoupeKing]

XD/E cost the same from factory as the early 80`s mercs?

[ute83]

Originally Posted by smoo

No, that was when Mercedes built real cars. I encourage you to drop 10 grand on the same era as the E Series, W140. The you'll see what the story is with what is to go wrong.
BTW I've owned three of that shape Mercedes, two 280SE and one 560SEC. Not without their issues. V8s suffer weak timing chain tensioner and guides, not a cheap or quick repair. The 6s are good for worn valve guides and oil leaks. Central locking is guaranteed to fail on them. Look out for rust especially if UK import. But I suppose small niggly issues on decades old cars is only limited to Falcons aye yeah right.

Every car has SMALL niggly issues, what about BIG ones like diff bushes ( and how long has that been going on for ), Tranny milk shakes, again how long does a problem have to go on for, ball joints, brake hoses too short, FFS who measured them up. I could go on. Have you seen the look on peoples faces when you tell them that their head gasket has gone again and they are up for + or - another fifteen hundred bucks. I saw it back in the nineties. It's like ford couldn't or wouldn't engineer these problems out. IMHO that's one of the main reasons they are in the position that they are in.

[Mr Hardware]

Well built and built to last are two different things.

Falcons were not always well built. Everyone knows a falcon that's had a warranty claim.
Volkswagens are reportedly well built. Which one will be alive at 350,000klms with no major faults? It ain't the vw.

But yes, warranty claims and rust is where Aussie fords fell down. Even over other same-era aussie made cars: camry etc.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Of course its not but my EL has crapped three alternators in 235,000km, the previous owner didn't replace the power steering hose, so he just kept topping up the power steering fluid and toasted the alternator, I changed the high pressure power steering hose and chucked a new alternator on there.

Then the power steering pump let go and dumped a lot of oil from the front under the pulley into the alternator again killing my new alternator...

Replaced pump, replaced alternator again, third time lucky?

Its well known about the power steering issue on Falcons, if you have an alternator done at an auto electrical shop they won't warrant the work unless you also change that hose regardless of its condition.

Old man's Mazda 323, 390,000km, original starter, alternator and clutch.

Also stuff like Window regs are craptacular on E series Falcon, who has one of these on the forum with all 4 power windows working properly? My own EL the passenger window will barely pull itself up, and another EL I worked on the drivers side had the same problem.

Mines never had a head gasket problem because before I registered it I replaced the gasket with an AU MLS one but it did the heater core on me when I was driving home from work.

Its just all these little niggly issues, nothing overly serious. But its still leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm just lucky mine is a project car and not a daily so when it decides to play not nice I can let it sit there and think about what its done for 6 months before I fix it lol.

you mustve bought a dud dude

i only lift the bonnet on XE every month or so to check vitals

315k of old bomb goodness

[smoo]

Originally Posted by ute83

Every car has SMALL niggly issues, what about BIG ones like diff bushes ( and how long has that been going on for ), Tranny milk shakes, again how long does a problem have to go on for, ball joints, brake hoses too short, FFS who measured them up. I could go on. Have you seen the look on peoples faces when you tell them that their head gasket has gone again and they are up for + or - another fifteen hundred bucks. I saw it back in the nineties. It's like ford couldn't or wouldn't engineer these problems out. IMHO that's one of the main reasons they are in the position that they are in.

And the on going issues you quoted me on of the supposed world best car in the 1980s aren't big issues? Along with all the other quality dramas that have plagued Mercedes from the early 90s to current day.
More sense could be drilled into a brick wall. Using your logic the Falcon is the only car to suffer from big issues. Refer to my post last page.
And the reason for their demise... All the sheep have flocked to SUVs or double cab utes.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by smoo

All the sheep have flocked to SUVs or double cab utes.

Sheep? Why is that?

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Sheep? Why is that?

baaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

[WPR1]

Short answer NO.

In the early days I think the Falcons were better as they were designed and made tough to suit our conditions where the Euro and British cars failed.

When the Jap cars first came over they were rubbish but in the mid 80's they really started to make some major advances in build quality, reliability and technology. The first Jap multivalve engines that gave great performance matched with economy changed the battlefield. Ford hit back with upgrades to the I6 but it took a few years.

Car technology also really accelerated in the 80's & 90's and our local Falcon really didn't have the development budget to compete with these 'world cars' and quality had to give.

Don't forget the advent of salary packaging had a huge impact on the market when suddenly people could choose whatever car they liked rather than a certain spec Falcon or Commodore. People being people always think there is something better out there and they tried other makes.

Rock bottom was the AU but Ford really turned things around and caught up with the BA in 2002 but people were a little wary after being burned.

The current cars in my opinion are great and more than a match for their overseas equivalents but given the complexity of modern day cars the development savings that can be generated through 'world car' design are too strong.

[The Yeti]

No, I don't believe they were / are rubbish, but they did need a lot of work in quality control. the last one I got was in 2007 and it was as bad as the one I got in 05 and it was no better than the one I got in 03, all large fords and all suffered from poor fit and finish and rattles and just really silly minor things that give you the cranks when you buy a new car. Since then I've had imported cars of 3 major manufacturers and I have experianced none of the same issues.

The other issue is the service departments at their dealers, I've been in to Ford / Holden dealers in major citys and towns around Australia and they mostly seem to be grotty little hovels on the side of the main building. where as when I go in to a Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, VW service department, they're right & clean, so the service 'experiance' tends to be more enjoyable, I took my currnet car into the dealer yesterday for its first service, they gave me a buffett breakfast, real coffee, that days paper, wifi access all while I waited and this was just a dealer for a japaneese car company.

its easy to blame the size of the car, but Holden also built the cruize here and toyota built a different range of cars again, so the next thing is the cost to produce, our dollar didnt help but our cost to do business & wages to build is only one componet in the build cost of the car

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by WPR1

Rock bottom was the AU but Ford really turned things around and caught up with the BA in 2002 but people were a little wary after being burned.

How can you say this? The AU was a much better and more reliable car than the BA. It was just the unfortunate looks of the early AU Forte that seems to have given the AU a bad reputation.

Issues with the BA such as the transmission fluid/coolant cross contamination, faulty TPS, broken climate control shafts etc. That's what burned Falcon buyers.

And some of these problems still continue with the current cars.....

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by smoo

All the sheep have flocked to SUVs or double cab utes.

Yep I'm one of them, and my last Australian build Ford was a Territory, an SUV if I'm not mistaken, and in terms of fit and finish it was every bit as bad as the Fairmont Giha I had before that.

All my problems were minor but they added up to a big PITA in terms of ownership experiance, the territory spent more time in the service department during its first 3 months than it did in my drive, in the end I paid a local mechanic to fix my issues the 1st time and took it there for every service until I sold it.

So was the problem the car or the dealership? Clearly, it was the quality control of the manufactuer in the first place, followed by the poor service at the dealership. But your average Joe sees it as one and the same eg: its a crap car that not even their own dealer can fix.

As for Sheep buying Duel Cabs and SUV's what that tells me is the market has shifted from large sedans & wagons to SUV's and Utes, and if the local car companys didn't shift with the market its only got its self to blame

[WPR1]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

How can you say this? The AU was a much better and more reliable car than the BA. It was just the unfortunate looks of the early AU Forte that seems to have given the AU a bad reputation.

Issues with the BA such as the transmission fluid/coolant cross contamination, faulty TPS, broken climate control shafts etc. That's what burned Falcon buyers.

And some of these problems still continue with the current cars.....

They really went back to the drawing board after the AU, looks, refinement, handling and came out with the car the AU should always have been. That said I think the AU has aged well and looks better now than then, I think it was a shape that was ahead of it's time.

[FNQracing]

Calling Aussie Ford's rubbish is a bit harsh, but hey, we are all passionate about them. Here's my list of Ford Oz's top crimes against the Aussie motorist:

1. XD-XF's that were slapped together by 10 year olds with standard rust frm the factory. Yes, the quality of these cars were atrocious. I should know, I had 5 of em. They really did blow. Every single one had a major mechanical failure during my ownership. I still have 2 spare door handles.

2. Keeping the live rear end in the sedan until 2002. Virtually unchanged from 1981! Yes it did the job, but so does a rickshaw.

3. Dropping the V8. Performance Falcon's became an oxymoron overnight.

4. Releasing the EA half baked. Ford's reputation never really recovered from this.

5. The OHC 6 from EA to EL - why cant you make an engine that doesn't blow heads? It took you 10 years to fix that. Or were you just f$%@ing with us?

6. The AU Falcon styling. It looks good now, but back in 1999 it looked like something from outta space. The beautiful (at the time) VT Commodore just made it look worse.

7. The styling of post AU Falcons - so burnt by the adventurous AU, subsequent Falcons were so blandly styled they go unnoticed.

8. Your marketing department - you don't actually have one do you?

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by WPR1

They really went back to the drawing board after the AU, looks, refinement, handling and came out with the car the AU should always have been. That said I think the AU has aged well and looks better now than then, I think it was a shape that was ahead of it's time.

They started to look better with Lowndes driving one....with the green eyes. Loved that car.

[ebxr8240]

They made good cars.. There service centres?? Don't get me started !!!

[Shonky.]

I was sure this was going to be a Hulk thread from the title....

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

broken climate control shafts etc. That's what burned Falcon buyers.

And some of these problems still continue with the current cars.....

O man this did my head in the dash of my BA was so used to coming out for this all the tech had to do was snap his fingers. I remember one time we were in Harden, it was freezing we hopped in the car my wife hit the passenger side temp up, there was a clunk under the dash and it threw ice cubes at her all the way back to Sydney, while it was a flame thrower on my side

This thing had us so scared it would happen again (after the 4th or 5th time) we set the AC at 23* and never touched it again the next car was a territory and I took a base TX because it didn't have the stupid unreliable climate control

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by smoo

All the sheep have flocked to SUVs or double cab utes.

I've owned many Falcons, and right now I don't own a Falcon, or an SUV or a double cab. Guess that theory is out the window.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

S116 and S126 were the most reliable Mercs ever made.


I dare anyone to own an S140 and not go insane however.
Dont mind the biodegradable plastic insulation on the wiring...
image

I would say w124 were right up there in reliability stakes ...

[zilo]

A few taxi drivers have mentioned that the hybrids pay for themselves just with the transmissions not crapping out every 200 thousand kilometres.

and ...lpg aint as cheap as it used to be...

[Lotte]

Yes. Of course they were rubbish.
That's why they made them for 50 years. Because they were rubbish. That's why one of the biggest forums on the world wide webz is an AUSTRALIAN ford forum. That's why people in the states and Canada wanted the falcon exported there. Because Ford Aus made rubbish cars from the word go.

Seriously. Deez freds.

[93EB_SXR6]

To the OP: no.

[Blueford260]

I think the aussie built Falcons and Territory are some of the best built cars in the world. I've owned 5 Falcons all different models (still have 2 of them) and a Territory, can't say anything bad about them I've serviced them and replaced apart of 3 on the older ones but all in all they have been great cars.
Those that think the Japaneses stuff is "unbreakable" are looking thought rose coloured glasses, They are good but they have problems just like the rest of them.

[Rodge]

I've run my Mercedes-Benz 2007 S320 cdi for nearly 7 years now side by side with 3 different FPV's and the Merc's seen them all off and gone. When I bought the Merc I used to blog on Drive and everyone told me they're not built for our conditions, it'll fall apart in less than 3 years, waste of money e.t.c. e.t.c.. Its extremly well built and largly problem free apart from the blight of the DPF issue that's affected all manuafacturers of diesel engines fitted with that cursed device.

In my opinion if we had access down-under to large sedan's built by the German's at fair prices, (i.e.an unprotected industry), free of LCT the Australian manufacturing industry would have died many years ago.

FPV's are average cars with good brakes, a very strong engine and poor / average handling, (at best) that are now at least a generation and a half behind the best the world has to offer and that's the nub of the issue right there. If Ford America had of invested to equip the Falcon with the best technology available like they do with other cars in their range the Falcon would have stood a chance.

As it was, clearly Alan Mullally's vision of a one-world large car signed the death warrant for the Falcon many years ago and their under-investment ever since with very small R & D budgets has lead to an inevitable conclusion. It'll be an absolute miracle if they make it to October 2016 or anywhere close.

You reap what you sow in life and get what you pay for. Ford have reaped what little they've sown and if you buy a Falcon you get an average car, i.e. what you pay for, in my opinion.

I got into FPV ownership in 2007 because they were good value bang for buck and at that time their technology wasn't dated. I paid exactly $60,000 Kiwi for my BF2 Typhoon. NOw they want basically $100,000 for the last FPV which is ostensibly unchanged from the core formula that was offerred seven years a=go and as a result is very dated in term sof its technology.
I really think the final GT-F is worth little to nothing more than the first BF2 Typhoon because its tech is now so dated.

At chump change back from $100,000 Kiwi Ford has their hand well and truly on it, in my opinion.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Sheep? Why is that?

Sheep? Did I hear sheep?... What sheep are ewe talking about?

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Rodge

I've run my Mercedes-Benz 2007 S320 cdi for nearly 7 years now side by side with 3 different FPV's and the Merc's seen them all off and gone. When I bought the Merc I used to blog on Drive and everyone told me they're not built for our conditions, it'll fall apart in less than 3 years, waste of money e.t.c. e.t.c.. Its extremly well built and largly problem free apart from the blight of the DPF issue that's affected all manuafacturers of diesel engines fitted with that cursed device.

In my opinion if we had access down-under to large sedan's built by the German's at fair prices, (i.e.an unprotected industry), free of LCT the Australian manufacturing industry would have died many years ago.

FPV's are average cars with good brakes, a very strong engine and poor / average handling, (at best) that are now at least a generation and a half behind the best the world has to offer and that's the nub of the issue right there. If Ford America had of invested to equip the Falcon with the best technology available like they do with other cars in their range the Falcon would have stood a chance.

As it was, clearly Alan Mullally's vision of a one-world large car signed the death warrant for the Falcon many years ago and their under-investment ever since with very small R & D budgets has lead to an inevitable conclusion. It'll be an absolute miracle if they make it to October 2016 or anywhere close.

You reap what you sow in life and get what you pay for. Ford have reaped what little they've sown and if you buy a Falcon you get an average car, i.e. what you pay for, in my opinion.

I got into FPV ownership in 2007 because they were good value bang for buck and at that time their technology wasn't dated. I paid exactly $60,000 Kiwi for my BF2 Typhoon. NOw they want basically $100,000 for the last FPV which is ostensibly unchanged from the core formula that was offerred seven years a=go and as a result is very dated in term sof its technology.
I really think the final GT-F is worth little to nothing more than the first BF2 Typhoon because its tech is now so dated.

At chump change back from $100,000 Kiwi Ford has their hand well and truly on it, in my opinion.

cool troll post